RootsChat.Com

Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Merionethshire => Topic started by: Jones123 on Wednesday 25 May 16 11:36 BST (UK)

Title: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Jones123 on Wednesday 25 May 16 11:36 BST (UK)
After spending several years tracking the wrong 'Jones' family, I would request some help.  Is anyone out there related to Alice Jones of Henfelin, Dolgelly?  According to the 1901 census she was living as Head of family with 4 children - Caroline (6), David (3), Evan (8) and Baby Sarah (0).
I am hoping that David is my Grandfather, as Evan was killed in WW1 and his name is on the War Memorial in Dolgelly - the only information I have about my grandfather.

Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: EmyrBorth on Wednesday 25 May 16 18:41 BST (UK)
Hi
According to Ancestry 1911 Census records, there was an Alice Jones, single, who had 8 children, not all at home, living in 2 Park Lane, Dolgelley. There is an Evan Jones, 18 , Farm Servant, but name crossed out; Caroline, 16 ; David , 13 ; and Sallie, 11 (Baby Sarah ? ).
1911 Census , Wales ,  Merionethshire > Dolgelley > 01  pages 291/292
If you send me your e-mail address by PM I can send you a link that will enable you to access the record without having a subscription provided you use it within 10(?) days.
There is a family notice in a Welsh language newspaper Y Dydd in May 1919, in remembrance of  Pte Evan Jones, son of Mrs Alice Richards, Meyrick St, who died in France 17/05/1917. Can't find his Service Record. According to Commonwealth Graves Commission website :
 In Memory of
Private E Jones
11027, 1st Bn., Royal Welsh Fusiliers who died on 17 May 1915
 Remembered with Honour
Lillers Communal Cemetery

There is a civil marriage, FreeBMD:
 Marriages Dec 1914   
RICHARDS    John    Jones    Dolgelly    11b   651
and on North Wales BMD:
North Wales Marriage indexes for the years: 1914
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)   Church / Register Office   Registers At   Reference
RICHARDS   John   JONES   Alice   Dolgellau, Civil Marriage   Gwynedd (Caernarfon)   DOL/21/E53
Emyr



Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Jones123 on Wednesday 25 May 16 19:58 BST (UK)
Emyr - many thanks for your help, I am just taking up my search again after a long break and have renewed my membership with an on-line site, but thank you for your offer. 

This seems to be the correct family this time, so I will do some more research.

Who knew searching for Jones in Wales would be so difficult!

Linda Jones.
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 25 May 16 21:53 BST (UK)
Marriages
3 October 1914 in the Register Office - John Richards, Arran Court, Dolgellau and Alice Jones, Park Lane, Dolgellau

(from Y Dydd - translated)

Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 25 May 16 21:59 BST (UK)
A previous memorial notice in 1918 notes Evan as dying in May 1915
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 25 May 16 22:13 BST (UK)
Y Dydd 4 June 1915 (translated)
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4107638/4107642/18/

We are very sorry to hear that Private Evan Jones, son of Mrs Alice Richards, Park Lane, Dolgellau, had been killed in France. He joined the Royal Welsh Fusiliers around 4 years ago. He was only 23 years old. News was received a few days ago that he had been injured, and at the start of this week the sad news arrived that he had died.

Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: dcbnwh on Thursday 26 May 16 11:22 BST (UK)
Some dates of the children:-

David Jones, b 17 Jul 1898, son of Alice of Penuchafdref
Sarah Williams Jones, b 25 Sep 1900, dau of Alice of 3 Park Lane
John Richard Jones, b 7 Jun 1905, son of Alice of Park Lane
Dorothy Richards Emily Jones, b 18 Mar 1907, dau of Alice of Park Lane
Willie Jones, b 12th Dec 1908, son of Alice Jones of Lawnt
Meirion Jones, b 14th Feb 1911, son of Alice Jones of Lawnt

Meirion's birth is registered as Meirion Richards Jones and his death is registered in 1987 as Meirion Richards - same birth as above.

I think he married Elizabeth Sarah Hughes at Capel Saesnaeg, Dolgellau, in 1938. If so, she died in Jan-Mar 1996.

David

Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Jones123 on Thursday 26 May 16 14:52 BST (UK)
Thank you so much David for the information.  Things may well, at last, be coming together.

Linda
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Jones123 on Thursday 26 May 16 18:02 BST (UK)
Thank you also Mabel for information.  All very helpful!

Linda Jones
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 26 May 16 19:46 BST (UK)
think I;ve identified John Richards - b c1860 (or 1866 on 1911), son of Robert and Hannah. 1901 he is with his parents in Meyrick St, a widower with two sons, 1891 with wife Anne and son Robert

1901
    
Robert Richards    63
Hannah Richards    67
John Richards    40
Richard O Richards    13 - grandson
Robert Richards    12 - grandson
William Jones    39 - visitor
Richard Lewis    39 - visitor

RG13, 5254, 40, 9



He appears to have had a little problem with fishing out of season in 1905 (see under Dolgelly)

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3409168/3409173/44/

there's a similar story in 1886 in Welsh (caught twice in a few months)

and a punch up in 1909

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3411333/3411338/31/
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 26 May 16 20:00 BST (UK)
You mentioned Alice's son David - he's in the papers a few times for his service in WWI. he joined up in 1914 and had home leave in both June 1917 (when referred to as Dafydd) and Oct 1918.

To help follow Alice back there's also mention of

Isaac David Jones - died 1918 aged 41, son of Dafydd and Dorothy Jones, Well St, who lived with his sister Alice Richards

Corporal David Jones Edwards, grandson of David and Dorothy Jones, Well St, who died in France in 1918, having been in the army for 20 years. the news was received by Alice Richards


Here they are in 1881 - confusingly despite the newspaper reports, their mother appears to be called Catherine in all censuses and Isaac is with his widowed mother in 1901

David Jones    48 - hawker, b Ruthin
Catherine Jones    42 - b Newtown
William Jones    19
Evan Jones    16
Mary Jane Jones    14
Alice Jones    10
Charlot E. Jones    7
Isaac Jones    5
David Jones    2 - grandson

RG11, 5546, 54, 2
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Dolgellau on Sunday 29 May 16 12:37 BST (UK)
Alice Jones was my great, great aunt. I am a bit pushed for time at the moment, but will send you a more enlightening message about her latter on this evening.

Regards

Alwyn
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Jones123 on Tuesday 31 May 16 19:23 BST (UK)
Hello Alwyn

I am intrigued by your message, when you have time I would be pleased to hear from you.

Best wishes
Linda Jones
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Dolgellau on Thursday 02 June 16 17:26 BST (UK)
Alice Jones b: 1870 in Dolgellau,
Children (all illigitimate, as far as I know):
Evan Jones (1893 - ) b: 1893 in Dolgellau
Caroline Jones (1895 - ) b: 1895 in Dolgellau
David Jones (1898 - ) b: 1898 in Dolgellau,
Sarah (Sally) Jones (1900 - ) b: 1900 in Dolgellau
John R Jones (1906 - ) b: 1906 in Dolgellau
Dorothy Emily Jones (1907 - ) b: 1907 in Dolgellau
William Edwin Jones (1909 - ) b: 1909 in Dolgellau
Meirion Richards Jones (1911 - ) b: 1911 in Dolgellau
Meirion Richards (about 1911 - ) b: Abt. 1911 in Dolgellau

Father:
David Jones (1834 - 1894) b: 1834 in Star, Pembrokeshire, d: 22 Dec 1894 in Dolgellau
Mother:
Catherine Jones (née Jones) (1835 - 1905) b: 1835 in Newtown, Montgomeryshire,  m: 13 Oct 1855 in Registry Office, Dolgellau d: 23 Feb 1905 in Dolgellau, Merionethshire
Paternal Grandparents:
William Jones  d: Bef. 1839
Dorothy Roberts (1802 - 1873) b: 1802 in Ruthin, Denbighshire, d: 30 Sep 1873 in Dolgellau
Maternal grandparents
 Evan Jones (between 1812 and 1816 - ) b: Bet. 1812–1816 in Pontesbury, Shropshire, England
Elizabeth Morris (1817 - before 1861) b: 1817 in Carmarthenshire, Wales, d: Bef. 1861 in Cemmaes, Montgomeryshire, Wales
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Dolgellau on Thursday 02 June 16 17:31 BST (UK)
David Jone's Grave Stone
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Dolgellau on Thursday 02 June 16 17:41 BST (UK)
Alice's ancestor's were hawkers, travelling sales people, selling pots, pans and earthenware in fairs and door to door (this explains why her father was born in Pembrokeshire to a mother from Denbighshire). Family tradition says that her mother's side of the family were Romany Gipsies, but I haven't found any evidence to back that up yet
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Jones123 on Thursday 02 June 16 18:32 BST (UK)
Many thanks for the information.

I am still waiting for the copy of the Birth Certificate for David Jones (1898 - ) b: 1898 in Dolgellau, to arrive as I think this is my paternal grandfather, who came to Bristol in his 20's and remained here.  If this is the case then all the information you have given me will be extremely useful.

Again, thank you for your help.

Linda
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: Dolgellau on Friday 03 June 16 06:26 BST (UK)
Jones in Wales is a pain in the proverbial, it is the 2nd most common name in the UK, mainly because it's so common in Wales, but is a problem because it's not a proper Welsh name, but a translation of Ifan, Ieuan, Iwan or Siôn, so a person called John Jones in one census may well be called Evan Evans in the next, or John Evans or Evan Jones.

I will be interested in seeing the result of your Birth Cert search, even if it dismisses our common ancestry, it will, at least, be another to strike off the list!
Title: Re: Alice Jones Dolgelly
Post by: mar123J on Sunday 06 November 22 15:00 GMT (UK)
alice jones dtr was sarah may jones b25 sept 1900 her son was richard owen jones richards b 1923 sarah k/a sally married evan roberts 1926/7 in dolgelly they had a  further 4 dtrs and 1 son and died in blackburn lancs.  Sarah had siblings of evan b1893  caroline b1894 david john b1897 john richard b 1905 dorothy emily b1907  william edwin b1908 and meirion jones richards b1911 all born in dolgelly wales.. 
Sarah s son Richard owen jones/ richards always used the surname of Richards (we dont know why) he married and had 2 sons and 3 grandsons . There seems to be a link to canada through william evan jones 1878---1915 he may be the father of david john jones b1897   (possible DNA test done ???) and may be also the father of caroline and sarah may  jones ? The canadian FT i found shows the above children of alice jones as being half siblings of william evan jones 2nd family he had in canada. Its been  hard to link this family  because of name changes and jones being very common in dolgelly.