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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: jillyinnes on Friday 27 May 16 08:38 BST (UK)
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Hello
I'm trying to find the date of death for my 4 x gr grandmother, Mary Anne Siggs (nee Whiffing). Mary Anne was born about 1783, (maybe Middlesex?) daughter of Cratchrode Whiffing and Elizabeth Rossiter. She married James Whiffing Siggs on 28 March 1803 at St Dunstans Church, London. I've tried Ancestry, Find My Past, free BMD, familysearch.org. Can anyone help?
cheers
Jill
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What is the latest record you have for her? Baptism of children, census, etc?
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I have her Pallott's Marriage details 1803, St Dunstans in the West; details from Select Marriages (FHL Film Number 547369); Marriage Bans. Unfortunately I don't have an exact date for her birth. Children are Mary Ann Siggs b 1805, James Cratcherode Siggs b 1806-1826, Charles Siggs 1808 - 1855, John Whiffing Siggs, 1811 - 1828. The children seem to have all been born in Averley, Essex. Can't find her on any census either. Her husband was made bankrupt in 1812.
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What record puts her as daughter of Cratchrode and Elizabeth?
Ignore me - thought you were looking for date of birth!
If there's a link to Essex, then there's a high chance of not being available on the usual online sites - SEAX would be the place to go (costs)
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James Whiffen Siggs was buried in Poplar in 1821 could she have remarried?
They married 29th March 1803 by licence, both could write the witnesses were John Ramplin and Giles Hanwell the later appearing as a witness on another marriage so could be attached to the church
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Ha ha StevieSteve. ;D Actually I have a copy of Cratchrode's Will who mentions Mary Ann's children but I am having trouble finding Mary Ann's name which may mean she died prior to her father in 1823. I may also have missed her name because when I had tried to read this previously, I thought she WAS mentioned.
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Well Mary was still alive in 1819 as she is mentioned in the Will her mother Lydia wrote that year (when she was named beneficiary in her own write of a trust her mother had set up) which was proven in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury in 1823 by her husband Cratchrode. I can't see Cratchrode's Will anywhere.
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Jolee I've looked for another marriage but can't find one.
Smudwhisk, Lydia is her step mother who died prior to Cratchrode, both in 1823. Here is Cratchrode's site for his will - http://interactive.ancestry.com.au/5111/40611_310401-00346/299760?backurl=http://person.ancestry.com.au/tree/13680942/person/1533655654/facts/citation/147699417358/edit/record . I found mention of Mary Ann in the 7th line (I thought it was there somewhere!).
So at least we know she was alive until 1823.
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Thanks Jilly, I couldn't pick up that Will on the UK site even with the use of numerous "*" for letters. :-\
I suspect Siggs has been mistranscribed by them if the truth be known so she could have remarried or been buried as a widow. Mind you I have unfortunately a number of missing burials in that part of London over that period so it may just be missing. Not sure if that's just down to missing records, records that have been missed in the digitisation process (although many of the parishes I'd already been through microfilm copies of the registers) or simply the parish clerk didn't write up all the entries in the burial registers. :-X
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You could be right Smudwhisk . . . might have to put this one in the 'too hard basket' along with other missing ancestors. ;D Thanks everyone for your help.
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Did Mary Ann have a daughter of the same name who married Edward Goslin at Battersea on 11 May 1824? The marriage says Mary Ann the daughter was of Limehouse and a minor, permission being granted by her mother Mary Ann Siggs, widow, which would mean Mary Ann was still alive and had not remarried the year after her father's death.
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Well she was still alive in 1827 and living in Woodford, Essex.
Oxford Journal Sat 15 September 1827 pg3
"At Woodford, Essex, James C Siggs, aged 21, late brewer at Ratcliffe, eldest son of Mrs Siggs of Woodford"
You may need to view the Woodford PRs which are view on http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/ by subscription (various prices) as she may well be buried there possibly.
Edit - I see James was buried at Poplar along with his younger brother John in 1828. You could try browsing the Poplar burials after that date to see if Ancestry have missed or mis-transcribed her. You would have thought that if her husband two sons had been buried there, its possible she would have been taken back there too assuming she didn't remarry after 1827.
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I believe her daughter, Mary Ann, may have married Joseph Lee in 1831 when she was 26. Mother's name was listed as Mary Ann. There was no mention of Mary Ann (mother) in 1841 census.
I found the marriage to Edward Goslin - rather interesting.
Well done on finding her at Woodford! It's bedtime 'down under' so I'll take this up tomorrow.
Thanks so much. Amazing and powerful stuff.
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Marriage licence for Joseph Lee and Mary Ann Siggs in 1831 says both Joseph and Mary Ann were widowed. Licence was for the marriage to be solemized at Upminster. Its possible I suppose that could be Mary Ann the mother. You could do with seeing if the marriage was indeed in Upminster and if there is any similarity with the signatures.
There is a Joseph Lee born 1776 in Upminster on the 1841 Census but he's on his own. Unfortunately, of course, there is no marital status to see if he was a widower. He doesn't seem to appear on 1851 on a quick look.
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Mary Ann Siggs who married Joseph Lee is Mary Ann Whiffing and she died before 1841.
There is a PCC Will of Joseph Lee of Upminster 1849 (incorrectly indexed by Ancestry as Upminster, Sussex ::)). Its quite long but he does mention the son in law of his late wife Mary Ann, James Abraham Richmond and his late wife Elizabeth and her (Mary Ann's) son Charles Matthew Siggs. ;D I could post you a link but it would be to the UK site.
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There is a burial in Poplar All Saints 21 May 1839 Mary Ann Lee of Hornchurch aged 57 years.
That could well be her, although you would probably need the death certificate to be certain. Hornchurch is a neigbouring parish to Upminster.
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Well done Smudwhisk. By all reckoning I think you've solved it (you have also taught me a few different ways to go around things).
I found the will of Joseph Lee (that is a day's reading in itself), found evidence of James Whiffing Siggs death, found where Mary Ann Lee was buried so am very happy. ;D ;D ;D
Cheers Jilly
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I think I have the Whiffings back to 1694. I did all this some years ago so some of it may need double checking.
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Hello Kmsiggs. Is it possible to get a look at your Whiffing records? Are you on Ancestry by change? Crotchrode Whiffing certainly seemed a character.
cheers
Jill