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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: JillAnd on Friday 27 May 16 15:15 BST (UK)
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Hello I am trying to find out some details on Crawford Allen the son of Crawford Allen B 1819 married to Jessie Adams .His sisters were Jane b.1850 who married Willian Adams Perves 1872 and Jessie who married Thomas George Kerans. There may have been other siblings. He moved to Australia but we have no details of how, when or where he arrived. We do know he spent time in Sydney but do not know any other details, date or place of death. I believe he is my great grandfather and would love some information. Can anyone help? Jillian (Brisbane – Australia)
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Hi Jillian
Just wondering if you meant to post in the Midlothian/Scottish board? A family tree here http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/53094316/person/13453797103 (getting an error currently so can't see the whole tree for now) shows the family's roots in Ireland?
Apart from the sisters you mention, there is also potentially another sister called Eliza who was born c. 1858. She is showing as having married on 7 Sep 1898, Sandymount, Dublin to Lyons Kerans (connected to sister's husband Thomas Keran?). She died 4 Feb 1929, Rathmines, Dublin.
The sister you have, Jane, is showing as having died three years after her 1872 marriage in Australia (26 Oct 1875 Sydney, New South Wales).
Monica :)
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There are a few records for a Crawford Allen in the NSW Goal Description Books .There is one for Crawford Allen b Ireland 1849 Ireland
There is a death for an Eliza Jane Hoff 17/5/1874 Queensland father Crawford Allen mother Jane Gillespie ?
Rosie
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Oohhh, Jane Gillespie. There is also this death in the US for a Robert born to this couple:
http://iowagravestones.org/gs_view.php?id=1098031
Some more children in Ireland for couple with mother as Jane Gillespie
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Aallen~%20%2Bany_place%3Aireland~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Acrawford~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Ajane~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Agillespie~
Wonder which wife/mother, Rosie. It may be that there are two couples?
Monica
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There are a few records for a Crawford Allen in the NSW Goal Description Books .There is one for Crawford Allen b Ireland 1849 Ireland
Jillian, what is the earliest record you potentially have for Crawford Allen Jnr in Australia?
I think from Rosie's reference, there is a 1899 entry in the Gaol Descriptions books with a Crawford Allen aged 51 giving his arrival to NSW I think in 1874 on the 'Lough'. This Crawford was a labourer from Ireland.
The other Crawford Allen showing looks to have been born c. 1829, also Irish.
Monica
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Think there might be two couples Monica seems to be one in Ireland and the Crawford Allen and Jessie Adams in Edinburgh ..Have a look on www.findagrave.com ( Greyfriars Kirkyard ) ?
Rosie
Ireland Calendar of Wills Jessie Allen death 3/1/1897 Galaway primary beneficiary Crawford Allen
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Think there might be two couples Monica seems to be one in Ireland and the Crawford Allen and Jessie Adams in Edinburgh ..Have a look on www.findagrave.com ( Greyfriars Kirkyard ) ?
Rosie
See what you mean. www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSfn=crawford&GSiman=1&GScid=639769&GRid=75243537& Pity the section at the bottom with inscription on the Allens is so impossible to read.
ADDED: Marriage in Edinburgh 1848 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY99-TGS
Monica
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With Jessie Adams' father showing as John, there is an 1841 census entry, at No 3 Charlotte Street North, for the the family of a John Adams and wife Alison (Christison I think). John a Writer by occupation. The family made up of 9 children including a Jessie born c. 1823.
No sign of Crawford Snr in 1841 or 1851. Crawford's origins possibly Irish and they went to live there after marriage?
Monica
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Yes pity about the writing on the stone a bit of a mystery here I think ???
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All of this doesn't help much with when and how Crawford Jnr ended up in Australia does it :-\ I can see two possible entries but this is likely for the labourer, Crawford, who had brushes with the law in later years...
Monica
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Rosie, someone with the magic eye to read that inscription at Greyfriars ::)
http://weblog.rmg.co.uk/memorials/page/375/?search=westminster&searchcriteria=place&area&memorialpage=6&memorialid=m4812
Monica
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Not seeing anything in the census's for Scotland maybe Jillian should try for a copy of the will for Crawford Allen in Ireland to see if there is any mention of the son ???
Rosie
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See this thread for a Crawford Allen-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=749251
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Just a note on children, Jessie is showing as third daughter of Crawford Allen on this burial note:
Jessie KERRANS ,March 17 1882 age 29
3rd daughter of Crawford Annel CARAMANA, Co, Galway, Ireland
www.genealogy.com/ftm/j/o/h/Gillian-Margaret-John/FILE/0032page.html
Monica
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Jane is showing as second born, http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/114737420
Purves, M.A., Sydney, to Jane, second daughter of Crawford
Allen, Esq., Cavamana [sic.], county Galway.
Monica
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Alice is the oldest daughter - see other thread.
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That makes sense, heywood. Called after Jessie's mother Alison v. likely.
Monica :)
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From the Caledonian Mercury, Edinburgh on May 24, 1855:
At Caramana, county Galway Ireland, on the 9th current, the wife of Crawford Allen, a son.
Crawford Allen Snr of Canamara died at the age of 79 on 14 April 1898 at his residence, 55 Mount Pleasant Square East, Dublin.
See also https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FTDK-Q4S and https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZ58-J5Q
Monica
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From the Caledonian Mercury, Edinburgh on May 24, 1855:
At Caramana, county Galway Ireland, on the 9th current, the wife of Crawford Allen, a son.
Crawford Allen Snr of Canamara died at the age of 79 on 14 April 1898 at his residence, 55 Mount Pleasant Square East, Dublin.
See also https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FTDK-Q4S and https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZ58-J5Q
Monica
Well done Monica I would say that would be his birth then :)
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Two possible records for a Crawford Allen 18 July 1887 Adelaide/Sydney/Melbourne birth year of 1855 occupation labourer
Another one same birth year occupation farmer 15 August 1887
Rosie
Just read the other post that he arrived 1875 so ignore these 2 :-[
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NSW Police Gazette Crawford Allen b1856 Residence 12 February 1919 Sydney
Missing friends Crawford Allen age 63 years inquiry of the instance of Sarah Cooper .Currawang House Via Goulburn
Rosie
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This must be the manifest entry referred to, http://immigration.mooseroots.com/l/4510511/Crawford-Allen
Monica
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Hello Monica, Rosie all those who have replied in length to JillAnd's original post.
I have been helping a relative with this research as she is new to it.
And of course I can't stop looking, looking also, for her :)
Quote from a post of yours - "From the Caledonian Mercury, Edinburgh on May 24, 1855:
At Caramana, county Galway Ireland, on the 9th current, the wife of Crawford Allen, a son."
This is exciting as it's the very first time I have seen any mention of a son to Crawford Allen and Jessie nee Adams - not that she's mentioned.
Is it possible to see that newspaper report...?
I also haven't located any documentation on the birth of a possible 4th sister Eliza although I think it's likely from a Scottish census record I have seen.
I/we now have a lot of information on this family - it has been the connecting of the son Crawford born c1853/55 that has had us stumped.
So, once again, it was great to see the birth of a son to Crawford Allen's wife in 1855 that you mentioned.
I have now confirmed that Crawford Allen age 22 Gentleman, departed Galway on the "Loch Eck" 30 December 1874 and arrived Melbourne, Victoria, Australia 14 April 1875.
The "various gaol records" noted by people as far as I can tell relate to just 3 separate offences.
1885 forging and uttering (explainable when you know the whole story), 1899 assault (and with good reason when you know the background) and 1914 igniting flammable material (nothing known of this offence).
By the way, there is documented proof that these offences relate to "our" Crawford Allen.
If you are looking at my post on the Kilconnell board re Jane m. William Adams Purves and her sister Jessie m. Thomas George Kerans - heywood has confirmed for me that the sisters were both married on the same day in the Kilconnell church, Go. Galway, Ireland.
Hope to hear if there is a way to see the article in the Caledonian Mercury May 24 1855 :)
Barb in Oz
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Hi Barb
Unfortunately, the birth entry I transcribed is no more than I showed. It showed in the 'Birth, Marriages and Deaths' section of the newspaper. These are normally simple notice entries.
I think something that you and Jillian could consider, and mentioned by Rosie above, is to follow up on the will & testament entries in 1897 and 1898, for Jessie and husband Crawford. Hopefully there is a mention of Crawford Jnr there. Not sure how you can get to view/order these, but sure someone here on RC can advice further.
From your research, was Crawford Jnr a bit of a black sheep of the family? Just curious, you mention that you are certain that the gaol records do relate to Crawford Jnr. What was there in the records to let you confirm? There are shipping manifest details for a Crawford born c. 1855, a labourer isn't there.
Monica
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Hello again MonicaL
Re the double Marriage of the Allen daughters - just today I managed to find Irish newspaper entries detailing the festivities of the 13 June 1872 in Kilconnell, which was wonderful.
Yes it would be great to see the actual WILLS.
We have the Probate details (attached) and we know that Alice's married name is BACKHOUSE, not JACKHOUSE as shown in the details.
Any advice on availability would be greatly appreciated.
Re your "black sheep" question - um er - looks a bit that way - but unless we find out why he left and travelled to Oz we'll never know! Pity he hadn't rated a mention in the newspaper article of the two girls' wedding in 1872.
Barb
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I think something that you and Jillian could consider, and mentioned by Rosie above, is to follow up on the will & testament entries in 1897 and 1898, for Jessie and husband Crawford. Hopefully there is a mention of Crawford Jnr there. Not sure how you can get to view/order these, but sure someone here on RC can advice further.
Unfortunately, pre-1900 Irish Wills do not survive. For Northern Ireland offices (Armagh, Belfast, Londonderry) the Will books (copies of Wills) do survive and are available at www.proni.gov.uk. If Will books for Dublin exist they would probably need to looked up there.
Crawford Allen d.1898-
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014910/005014910_00271.pdf
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Apologies if this has already been posted-
Dundee Courier, 20 June 1849: Births- At Caramara, County Galway, on the 11th inst., the wife of Crawford Allen, Esq., of a daughter.
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Hi aghadowey
That's a blow :-\ re Irish WILLS.
No, haven't seen that entry for daughter born 1849 - sounds as if it could be Alice - eldest daughter...
Thanks again.
Barb
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1911 census, Alice is born abt 1850 so that fits.
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Thank you Monica, Rosie and heywood
A huge thank you to everyone for the interest you have shown and the information you have shared with both Barb and myself. I find it quite amazing and overwhelming to think that this kind of information can be shared from one side of the world to the other. We still have some information to gather and are awaiting some birth certs that may shed a little more light on our mystery. As Barb said it would be great to know what happened in his life for our “Gentleman Crawford” to have travelled to Australia leaving his family. We were thinking that the letter sent to him from his sister Jane in 1872 had been sent to him in Australia but this not being the case, this small letter must have held some importance to him for it to have survived the time and the events between 1872 and 2016.
Jillian
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Hopefully the birth certificates will help you with your research on the elusive Crawford Allen did he use an alias name of Fletcher ? ...
Rosie
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Yes, he gave his name as Thomas Fletcher in Wagga Wagga NSW. Charged with Forgery and Uttering a cheque for 16 ponds 10s.
‘which a warrant was issued for the arrest of the prisoner, who gave his name as Thomas Fletcher; he did not give the name of Adams, or Crawford Allen.’ (Adams was his mothers maiden name)
A strange involved story surrounds this event.
Jillian
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We were thinking that the letter sent to him from his sister Jane in 1872 had been sent to him in Australia but this not being the case, this small letter must have held some importance to him for it to have survived the time and the events between 1872 and 2016.
Jillian
Was there an address on this letter? The sisters' marriages were in 1872. He would have been 17 then from what we have. Your first likely sighting of him is two years later, on that manifest from 1874 on the Loch Eck isn't it?
Monica
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Hi Monica
No. The note was not in an envelope. The address it was sent from was 41 Torrington Squares, 4th August 1872. It is only a short note and Jane states 'I can only write a note. I have such a number to write to'. I am thinking she may have been referring to the fact that she had lots of thankyou notes to write after her wedding in June.
Jillian
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Is it possible to see that newspaper report...?
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Hi rosie17 - I realise it is quite some time since the last posts on this subject but was just re-reading some of the amazing replies :-) and I noticed something that rates another question from a previous post of yours -
[quote]
Monday 30 May 2016
Hopefully the birth certificates will help you with your research on the elusive Crawford Allen did he use an alias name of Fletcher ? ...
Rosie [end quote]
If it is possible to think back that far I am wondering what caused the name of Fletcher to be mentioned....? As it had been used by Crawford Allen, but we don't know why.
Barb in Oz