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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Merionethshire => Topic started by: Rachel Williams on Monday 30 May 16 08:14 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone :)
I have posted before and received great help piecing together the various parts of this family for which I am most grateful. My question today revolves around 2 pedigrees that may connect at some point but currently appear to be at odds.
One is from Burkes' Peerage and the other from J. E. Griffith's 1914 Pedigree of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families. Hopefully, someone familiar with all this can help shed some light.
Burke's 1894 reads:
WILLIAMS OF DEUDRAETH CASTLE.
Lineage—
Gethin Wynne, of Saethon, who assumed the surname of Williams, was the son of Maurice Wynne, of Saethon, by Catherine his wife, dau. of Maurice Williams, of Hafodgarregog ; m. Jane, dau. of Robert Price, of Plasdu, and had a son, William Williams, of Saethon, ra. Eleanor, dau. of Arthur
Devereux, of Nantycribba, co. Montgomery, and had a son, Arthur Evans Williams, of Saethon, m. Elnaia, dau. of Eichard Anwyl, of Dolfiiog, co. Merioneth, and had a son, John Williams, of Saethon, m. 1748, Ann, dau. and co- heiress of Dafyd ap Griffith, of llendre, and d. 1796, leaving
a son, David Williams, Esq. of Saethon, who, by Jane his wife (whom he m. 19 May, 1790) had several sons and daus.
The 1914 pedigree ties John Williams to father William the son of Ann Trygarn the daughter of Richard Trygarn. John's wife also differs as she is identified as Anne Griffith in the 1894 publication as opposed to an Anne Davies in the 1914 pedigree.
1914 pedigree
Ann Jones d.1736 (aged 102!) daughter of Richard Trygarn d. 1666 aged 80 years
William Jones d. 1748 married 2x - first wife = Jonet ; second wife = Ann Hughes
John Williams 1713-1796 m. Anne Roberts d. of Robert Davies of Lonfydyr
David Williams of Saethon d.1823 marries Jane (Jones?) daughter of Capt. Edward Jones of Coed Marion.
Any help sorting out this mess is appreciated.
Diolch! :)
Rachel Williams
Sidney BC
Canada
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Hi Rachel,
I am not sure if I can add much to our previous exchanges but there is another pedigree by T. Ceiri Griffiths which is similar to that of 1914, although it may have been based on it.
The will of John Williams seems to match the names in the above and there is a bond following the death of John Jones of Coed-y-Marion, who might be Jane's brother, or nephew. His widow was Grace but T. C. Griffith identified the brother's wife as Janet of Penbryn, Mellteryn.
The will references on the NLW site are:-
Williams, John, Saython, Llanfihangel Bachellaeth, Caernarfon, Gent
John Williams : 1799.
Jones, John, Coed-y-marion, Llanbeblig, Caernarfon, Gent
John Jones : 1815.
There is a reference to Jane's brother in Google Books, but only a snippet, which reads - 'John Jones of [Coed Marian] Carnarvon Brother to Mrs Williams of Saythorn April 13th 1798'
Burke mentions that '...Annie-Louisa-Loveday, only daughter of Wiiliam Williams...descended paternally from the Nanneys of Maesypadndy...'. A book, written by a descendant of Maesypandy family is about to publish a history of the Nanney family. If this might be of interest, please let me know.
Regards,
David
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Thank you, David :)
That is very helpful. I will take a look as I have not seen these documents before.
Rachel
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Hello David,
I would be grateful for more details of the Nanney family book you mention; have you got a title or author / publisher that might help me to find it?
Pinot
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Hi Pinot,
At present, I don't know the exact title, publication date or how to order it. Currently, it is being printed and should be available in about six weeks.
As soon as I have the details, I will let you know. It will be a substantial volume of about 400 pages.
Regards,
David
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400! :o Thanks for the info.
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See the new posting about the publication of the book.
David
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Hi
Following from J E Griffiths, disc version:
p. 249 SAETHON, Llangian.
Part of family tree:
1 s t , Robert J o h n Harrison, of the town of Montgomery, H.S.Mont. i788.=y=*Mary.=2nd, Rev. John Pryce, of Gaer,
Note at bottom:
* The said Mary H a r r i s o n sold S a e t h o n to David Williams, t h e father of David Williams, of Castell D e u d r a e t h , who was agent of the e s t a t e , and whose family had occupied the farm for a long period previously. Another portion of the Saethon estate in Llanfihangel
Bachellaeth, was p u r c h a s e d by t h e Rev. H e n r y J o n e s , of Ty Coch, near C a r n a r v o n . (See Gelliwig, p. 370). The above David Williams sold it to T h o m a s Hawkes, of near Dudley, who again sold it to R i c h a r d Lloyd E d w a r d s , of Nanhoron.
p. 316 BREESE, of Portmadoc.
Margaret, sister of David Williams, Saethon, later Bron Eryri (renamed Castell Deudraeth), Minffordd, Penrhyndeudraeth, married Rev John Breese, Llanbrynmair. When John Breese died, Margaret moved back to live with her Mother and brother. I know of descendants of John/Margaret Breese living in Porthmadog area, but no longer Breese as they are descended thro' a grandaughter(?).
Seeing that you are a Williams, and enquiring about David Williams, I assume that you are related, and know of the descendents I refer to . If so, have you enquired of them about the pedigree ? If you are not aware of them let me know, and I will send details by PM or e-mail.
Information on some of the persons mentioned available on Dictionary of Welsh Biography, which can be viewed online.
I believe that an article has appeared in a Caernarvonshire Historical Society journal (1969 ?) about this confusion about the pedigree.
Emyr
NOTE:
1. page number Breese Family Tree corrected.
2. See Welsh Language Board posting by 'Pinot'. Online link to Pedigrees ..... J E Griffith. Does not seem to provide Search facility - disc (c. £14) does.
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Hi
Yesterday's posting modified as follows:
1. page number Breese Family Tree corrected. (p.316)
2. See Welsh Language Board posting by 'Pinot'. Online link to Pedigrees ..... J E Griffith. Does not seem to provide Search facility - disc (c. £14) does.
Link in Pinot's posting:
http://yanceyfamilygenealogy.org/BOOK_%28NANNEY%29__Pedigrees%20of%20Anglesey__ByGriffith.pdf
( By kind permission of Georgia Ruth & Dallas Library, Texas.)
Emyr
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Hello Emyr....
I am so sorry I did not see your responses earlier. I have the corrected pedigree... there remain some gaps but much of the correct story has been put together.
I descend (via adoption) through Robert Williams and Johanna Hurly. Robert (1804-1869) is the younger brother of David Williams MP of Castell Deudraeth (1799-1869).
The legal offices of the Breese family are still extant in Portmadoc but I have not contacted members of that branch of the family tree.
Thanks so much for all the help, "Diolch!"
Rachel