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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: woodge on Sunday 05 June 16 19:14 BST (UK)
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I had lots of problems trying to trace my Romany roots .....my grandfathers name was William Foster and as far as i can see the family originated from the Chertsey/Addlestone area in Surrey his father had a scrap metal business and his name was Henry Amos Foster they also married into the Evans family which i believe is also a travelling family can anyone offer any help
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Could you post the birth place and year for your grandfathers please. Also have you found them on any census?
If you could post as much information that you can then that would be most useful.
JJ
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Is this your family in 1901?
Looks like Henry Amos Foster is using his middle name
1901 Guildford Rd Chertsey Surrey
Amos Foster head M 44 Rag and Metal Merchant Hockliffe Beds
Cecelia wife 40 Norwood Middlesex
George son 14 Brentford Middlesex
Emily daughter 11 Chertsey Surrey
WILLIAM son 9 Chertsey
Arthur son 5 Chertsey deaf & dumb
Alice daughter 2 Chertsey
RG13 590 14 20
Suz
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hi thanks for the reply ...im a little mixed up my great grandfather was a Albert John Foster born in 1885 and died 1912 his father my great great grandfather was Henry Amos Foster born 1856 and married a cecilla anne carter in 1861 ......my grandfather was william frank foster born in 1912 ....my mother told me this story about having a Romany past but sadly she is no longer here and i have not much info to go one
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I haven't found definate Romany roots yet
Henry Amos is Henry in 1861 & 1871 then he goes by his middle name of Amos
This is his marriage in case you don't have full details
Parish register marriage after banns St Paul Old Brentford
28 ?(there is a blot on actual day) May 1878
Amos Foster 21 Bachelor occ labourer High St father John Foster occ labourer
Cecelia Ann Carter 18 spinster Ealing Lane father Luke Alfred Carter occ Gardener
witnesses John Foster & Fanny Carter
all signed
Suz
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thanks thats a great help , i will try and find out more information
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this looks like Albert John (your great grandfather's) baptism
Brentford St Paul
Albert John Foster
born 21 January 1885
baptism 5 July 1885
parents Amos& Cecelia Foster
address 53 North Rd
father's occupation labourer
and his marriage
St Peter Chertsey
11 July 1906
Albert John Foster 21 Bachelor occ lab address Chertsey father Amos Foster occ Marine Store Dealer
Lilian Blanche Remnant 19 spinster address Chertsey father William Martin Remnant occ Stockman
witnesses Emma Selina Hellene Saunders & William Chas Remnant
all signed
Suz
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Here is Albert John in 1891 with his parents
1891
5 Robinsons Row Chertsey Surrey
Amos Foster Head M 34 marine Store Dealer Hockliffe Beds
Siculia (spellt like this on census!) wife 30 Dulwich London
\\\elizabeth daughter 12 scholar Brentford
Fanny daughter 10 scholar Brentford
Henry son 7 Brentford
ALBERT son 6 brentford
George son 4 Brentford
Emily daughter 2 Chertsey Surrey
RG12 552 22 2
by 1901 Albery and brother Harry were not with parents
1901
Pyrcroft Rd Chertsey Surrey
William Mills Head M 33 labourer Iron Works Godalming Surrey
Fanny Mills wife 27 Chertsey
William V Mills son 1 Chertesy
Harry Foster Boarder 17 Marine Store Dealer's assistant Middlesex
ALBERT FOSTER boarder 16 Marine store dea;er's assistant Brentford Middlesex
Archibald Rogers Boarder 13 Milk Boy & Scholar not known from Workhouse
Harry harding Boarder 5 not known from Workhouse
RG13 590 816 10
Suz
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Hi Suz so it seems that the stories i have been told are rubbish thanks for clearing that all up for me
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Hi Sus so just found out what a Marine Store Dealer is basically a rag n bone man ..so i traced my Foster side back too John Foster born 1760 died 1799 his wife was Elizabeth Breed born 1761 no date of death found ......so the Scrap metal part was true , makes me wonder about the Romany part as well ....John Foster was the oldest family member i can find is there a way of finding out if there was any Romany connection there ?
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On one census Harry Amos is described as a rag and bone man
Don't be too harsh on tales you've heard not being true.
In my family we were always told we came from Romany stock - gypsies was the term used - it turned out it was because my family moved around a lot - not too far -but they moved back and forth - and that's where the Romany/traveller theory started.
Harry Amos was a rag and bone man -a scrap metal dealer and that is where the story that he was a Romany could have come from
When I was young my best friend was the daughter of the local scrap metal merchant, they lived in a big house and had a caravan which was used for holidays on the continent (a luxury not too many could afford at that time) . By local people they were were called gypsies - I suppose because they didn't conform to the usual mine/steelwork occupations which were prevelant in the area.
I have John Foster on census and he was an agricultural labourer and lived in a dwelling -not a tent or caravan -so I don't think there are obvious Romany connections there.
Do you require census with John and family on?
Suz
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this is the probate record for henry Amos
Henry Amos Foster of Bozen Green Farm Baughing Hertfordshire died 19 Feb 1931 at Streatham Surrey. Probate London 8 Dec to Ada Selina Foster, spinster
Effects £522 15s
Suz
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thank you you've been so helpful and found out more information than i'd manged too .....its strange the foster side of the family are all very dark skinned including myself and we always assumed this was the romany conncetion .........i have traced all my family back to the 1700s on all sides but never been able to find details about occupation or dwelling details so thanks for all your help so far ....i think im just going to accept thats its looking not likely we have a romany conncetion and accept the storie as it is thanks again woodge
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Suzthank you you've been so helpful and found out more information than i'd manged too .....its strange the foster side of the family are all very dark skinned including myself and we always assumed this was the romany conncetion .........i have traced all my family back to the 1700s on all sides but never been able to find details about occupation or dwelling details so thanks for all your help so far ....i think im just going to accept thats its looking not likely we have a romany conncetion and accept the storie as it is thanks again woodge
In my family most of my father's side of the family are dark skinned - I'm not but then my mother's side were very fair . One of our family believes we originate from 17th century continental gipsies but she has never given the source of information and as yet I haven't found proof - but we have to keep looking cos who knows what we will find
always remember too that its not often your family tell deliberate lies but they just tell stories which have been handed down and probably started with a flippant conversation many years ago - also it is great when you can confirm family tales
Do you require earlier census for addresses etc?
Suz
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Do you require earlier census for addresses etc?
that would be very helpful
always remember too that its not often your family tell deliberate lies but they just tell stories which have been handed down and probably started with a flippant conversation many years ago - also it is great when you can confirm family tales
very true ....im very proud of my Roots no matter what and thanks again for your help
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Here we are with the census
1871Hockliffe
John Foster head M 52 Dealer Hockliffe Beds
Ann wife 51 wife M Plaiter Tillsworth beds
Ephraim son S 21 labourer Hockliffe
HENRY son (this is Henry Amos) labourer Hockliffe
Jonathan son 11 Labourer 11 Chalgrave
Ann daughter 10 scholar Chalgrave
Levi son 5 scholar Chalgrave
Joseph Smith Lodger S 22 soldier Houghton Conquest
RG10 1559 112 12
Suz
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1861
Hockliffe Beds
John Foster Head M 42 ag lab Hockliffe
Ann wife M 41 Tillsworth
Loftus son 18 ag lab
Eli son 16 ag lab
Ephraim son 9 ag lab
HENRY son 4 scholar
Jonathan son 2
children all b Hockliffe
HO107 1755 415 20
Suz
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1851
Hockliffe Beds
John Foster head M 32 Straw factor (possibly means a dealer in straw plaits) Hockliffe
Ann wife M 31 Straw Cutter Tillsworth
Loftus son 8
Eli son 5
Caroline daughter 2 Ephraim son 4mths
children all b Hockliffe
HO107 1755 415 20
Suz
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1881
Chalgrave beds
John Foster head M 63 dealer
Ann wife 62 no calling Tilsworth Beds
RG11 1639 109 15
it seems by 1891 Ann had died and John had remarried
1891 London Road Chalgrave
John Foster head M 72 General dealer
Elizabeth wife 52
RG12 1263 92 6
Suz
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so with occupations like Marine Store Dealer and General Dealer is there a chance that further back there could have been a Traveller/ Gypsy link ?
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the furthest back I have got is 1841 when John Foster was an agricultural labourer
In 1851 he was a straw factor -which would have been a dealer in straw plaits possibly -and this is where (in my opinion) the dealership started. There is no sign so far of them living in anything but a house/cottage and being in the same area for many years.
John Foster in 1891 had living next door to him William L Foster with wife and 6 children - I believe this was John's eldest son William Loftus (or Loftus William (this family seem to have changed their names around -sometimes they use forename other times middle name) William Loftus is also described as a general dealer .
No Romany signs yet
Who do you have as John's parents??
There is a baptism
John Foster 22 Nov 1818 Hockliffe
parents Edward & Sarah
I can't find John called any of his children Edward or Sarah
John's marriage cert to Ann would name both of their fathers and their occupations
Certificates can be ordered online from GRO and cost £9-25
there are trees on A******y which vary - so we don't know how well sourced they are
Certificates are always a good investment - but are only available from Sept 1837
Suz
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I have John Foster born 1760 died 1799 married to Elizabeth Breed born in 1761 could only find 1 child Edward Foster 1787-1871
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Do you think you have missed a generation??
If John Foster and Elizabeth Breed are the parents of John Foster (father of henry Amos Foster) then Elizabeth would be c.age 58 when John was born???
So these are more likely to be Grandparents of John
You say you can only find one child of theirs Edward -so would this be Edward who married Sarah and had son John Foster in 1818??
Could you post where you have found the records you have just posted?
Suz
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yeah sorry i skipped a generation .....
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oldest first is John and Elizabeth married in 1781 there son Edward Married Sarah Weaver 1793-1862
there son John married Ann Butts 1820-1890 there son married Cecilla Carter
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a friend who'd traced there tree did it so i have no idea where they got the info from ......sorry
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oldest first is John and Elizabeth married in 1781 there son Edward Married Sarah Weaver 1793-1862
there son John married Ann Butts 1820-1890 there son married Cecilla Carter
I think there maybe some errors - John Foster (son of Edward and Sarah) married Ann Butts on some trees but there are notes that Ann Butts was not the Ann who married John Foster -she married someone else
I'll just check this
Suz
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Ann Butts was definately not the wife of John Foster
FreeBMD has the following
Marriage registration
Dec qtr 1843 Ampthill reg district 6 115
names on same page
Ann Butts
John Foster
Sarah Plowright
William Rush
John Web
Eliza Wooding
this just means these people's marriages were recorded on the same page of that quarters register. It doesn't mean that the persons next to each other married
from this registration Ann Butts married John Webb
Select marriages
29 Oct 1843
Houghton Conquest
Ann Butts (father George Butts) married John Webb
Houghton Conquest falls within Ampthill reg district
Hockliffe is in Woburn reg dist
I am wondering if John Foster's marriage to Ann was his second marriage
(this is where you need the certificate to verify you have the correct couple)
Suz
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"your " John Foster did not marry in Dec qtr 1843 Ampthill
I have discovered who married who on that registration
as posted Ann Butts married John Webb
Eliza Wooding (father William) married William Rush 20 Nov 1843 Houghton Conquest
John Foster (father Abraham Foster) married Sarah Plowright 19 Nov 1843 Houghton Conquest
so that marriage reg is not your John Foster
Suz
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It is looking likely that your John Foster married Ann Whittle or Whitall
Have to go now but will be back later with further research
Suz
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Many trees have John Foster as marrying Ann Whittle/ Withall in Mar qtr 1844 Bedford
They are two of the names on same page but John Foster from that registration married Rosalind Green on 3 jan 1844
So who did John marry??
Suz
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Suz good question....and one i have no idea what the answer is
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Steve Gibbs has transcribed marriages in Bedford Registration District
http://www.sgibbs1.freeserve.co.uk/ParishRegistersPage.htm
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Sorry for the delay in replying i have been trying to find out more information
i have found out some more info regarding the Evans side of my family which was unknown before
so i have a Sidney Evans born sept 1893 and a Rosa Evans march 1898 and a George Evans may 1849 i don't have any more info to be honest and help would again be helpful
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did you manage to find who John Foster married??
Where do these Evans fit in? Who were their parents?
Suz
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no luck with John Foster I'm afraid ......i did check but couldn't find anything
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Forgive me popping up in this one. I couldn't help myself! ;D
Woodge; As has already been stated: People seldom enough make up cock and bull stories about family histories, to their own family. If there's smoke? There's usually at least a fag end, smouldering away somewhere.
Also, one has to recognise that not all Gypsys spent their entire existences living in horse drawn 'caravans'. Eating hedgehogs and prancing about playing violins, whilst sporting gold ear rings and flashing white teeth in dark faces. That stuff's good for Enid Blyton. Not so clever for unravelling our possible pasts though.
Good god, the original " Romani Gypsys" got to england loads of hundreds of years ago. Sh1t changes, over centuries. We can't, seriously, expect every Gypsy to still look like a pakistani. (Alright. Yes. I Know some still do, to this day. Almost as weird in itself) Lot of water's gone under the bridge though.
One constant though is, of course, names .....
Now, without going through my entire stand up routine on this subject again; I'd just like to throw in that your lot caught my attention. And I consulted " TBOB " Here I am, look: (http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n201/ptpc/BookofBob.gif)
Know what? It confirmed what I was sure I remembered. That Foster, Whittle, even Evans are names found given by Gypsy's, down the years. Bear in mind also that not all 'Gypsys' would be of Indian extraction.
Murder, isn't it? ;D
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Hi Steve well thanks ......i think ;D
I have spent a lot of time and i seem to be forever roaming around the internet and looking for clues
so i have come to the conclusion that the information i have gathered so far is enough ....if my ancestors were Romany or Travellers i'll probably never know and really does it matter ... i found out more about my family than i knew before and thats enough for me
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living in horse drawn 'caravans'. Eating hedgehogs and prancing about playing violins, whilst sporting gold ear rings and flashing white teeth in dark faces.
I do like your quote BTW ;D
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does it matter ...?
Exactly, mate! Pretty much what Clarkson once, so memorably, said ;)
Got a Dog here. Never knew, for Years, what was in him. Bloody good Dog though.
Actually sussed out what cross he is, just a month or two ago. Great! It's nice to know :)
Still always been a bloody good Dog though. Regardless.
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Great words and very true my friend ..... Lang may yer lum reek
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Offline suzard
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Re: Trying to trace my Romany roots Foster and Evans
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 05 June 16 20:13 BST (UK) »
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Is this your family in 1901?
Looks like Henry Amos Foster is using his middle name
1901 Guildford Rd Chertsey Surrey
Amos Foster head M 44 Rag and Metal Merchant Hockliffe Beds
Cecelia wife 40 Norwood Middlesex
George son 14 Brentford Middlesex
Emily daughter 11 Chertsey Surrey
WILLIAM son 9 Chertsey
Arthur son 5 Chertsey deaf & dumb
Alice daughter 2 Chertsey
RG13 590 14 20
Suz i am a little confused this can't be my grandfathers parents his father was Albert Foster ?
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Suz i have to admit to being totally confused and i think I've confused myself :D whats confusing me is the fact on the 1901 census you've shown , shows William as 9 but theres no sign of any of his brothers Stan,Joe and Frank and Louis and i don't know any of the children names in the 1901 census
Frank's surname was different as my Great Grandfather was killed during the war Frank Dabney was his name
Below is my Grandfather with his 4 Brothers and Great Gran Dabney
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I think you have muddled generations
Albert Foster was not at home with parents & siblings in 1901 - he was age 16 and in lodgings - I posted the census
Perhaps this will help sort things out
Albert Foster was the son of Henry Amos Foster - who often just used his middle name of Amos
Baptism Parish records St Paul Brentford
Albert John Foster
born 21 Jan 1885
Baptised 5 July 1885
Parents Amos & Cecelia Foster
address 53 New North Road
father's occupation Labourer
and then Albert got married
Paris records
Marriage after Banns
St Peter Chertsey
Albert John Foster age 21 Bachelor occ Labourer father Henry Amos Foster occ Marine Store Dealer
married
Lilian Blanche Remnant age 19 address Chertsey father William Martin Remnant occ Stockman
witnesses Emma Selina Hellena Saunders & William Charles Remnant
I don't know when Albert died -you state it was during the war
I have found the following children who possibly belong to Albert John and Lilian Blanche
Albert William Foster Mar 1907 Chertsey 2a 54
William F Foster mother's maiden name Reamant Mar qtr 1913 Chertsey 2a 104 (wonder if this was Frederick ??
and possible twins
Stanley Foster & Thomas Foster Mother's maiden name Re????nt Jun qtr 1918 Chertsey 2a 11
Lilian remarried 1919
Marriage reg FreeBMD
Sept qtr 1919
Chertsey
Lilian B Foster
Thomas Dabney
2a 217
they had a son Frank Douglas Dabney born 21 April 1920
he married Sept qtr 1944
and he died 1986
Probate
Frank Douglas Dabney of 11 Elizabeth Fry House Ottershaw Surrey died 29 mar 1986 Administration Winchester 16 May 1986
Effects £32169
Frank Douglas Dabney seems to be living with his mother Lilian Blanche in electoral rolls in 1950 & 60's
and his wife seems to be living with her parents
Suz
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Hi Suz and many thanks for that ....yes my Grandfather had twin brothers Joe and Stanley
Lillian remarried as my great grandfather Albert was killed in WW1 , well Frank lived with his mum until she died and he lived alone until he died ...but i didn't know he was married
Grandfathers middle name was Frank and his Brother was Frank is there a family connection too this ?
Frank Foster was he maybe a Brother of Henry ? strangely this shop was at 106 Guildford Road Chertsey the same road the Henry had a Scrap Metal business .....Guildford Road in Chertsey is quite a long road it could be just coincidence but how knows
Happy New Year to everyone here and thanks for all your help
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Hi Suz and many thanks for that ....yes my Grandfather had twin brothers Joe and Stanley
Lillian remarried as my great grandfather Albert was killed in WW1 , well Frank lived with his mum until she died and he lived alone until he died ...but i didn't know he was married
Grandfathers middle name was Frank and his Brother was Frank is there a family connection too this ?
Frank Foster was he maybe a Brother of Henry ? strangely this shop was at 106 Guildford Road Chertsey the same road the Henry had a Scrap Metal business .....Guildford Road in Chertsey is quite a long road it could be just coincidence but how knows
the twins were registered as Stanley & Thomas (not Joe)??
What was the full name of your Grandfather (just to check we haven't missed a generation
Suz
Happy New Year to everyone here and thanks for all your help
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Frank Foster who had the shop at 106 Guildford Rd Chertsey 's full name was Frank Easton Foster -he was born 1878 Hastings St Leonard Sussex Parents Henry & Hannah -father Henry was a solicitor's clerk
He had an older brother Victor H Foster.
Frank Easton Foster married Ada Mary Wake
at the moment it is not looking like he is related to your family
What was your grandfather's full name and year of birth?
Suz
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Hi it was William Frank Foster dob 25/11/12
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Just to put things in order for you
I think this is basically your tree -check back over the census posted for further family
Grandfather
William Frank Foster born 25 Nov 1912 Chertsey Surrey
Baptised 29 Dec 1912
Parents Albert John & Lilian Blanche
address 43 laburnam Rd Chertsey
father's occ labourer
Great grandfather
Albert John Foster b. 1885 Brentford
married Lilian Blanche Reamant
2 x Great Grandfather
Henry Amos Foster b 1856 Hockliffe Bedfordshire
married Cecelia Ann Carter
3x Great Grandfather
John Foster b 1819 Hockcliffe Beds
married Ann Butts
and after her death married Elizabeth
Please ask if you are unsure or need more information
Suz
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I suppose i should explain myself more , i was contacted about 6 months ago by a guy claiming to be related to me ,a very distant cousin
his name was leander gaskin he claims that his great great grandmother was a foster and a relation of John Foster born1819 in Hockliffe Beds
he also claims that we were related to a John and Elizabeth Foster who had a daughter called Christian they came from Drayton Parslow and they were travelling people were talking around 1650 ….but i haven’t been able to find anything to confirm this ..now my GGG grandfather John Foster father we think was called Abraham Foster does anyone have any information on this ….anything linking them back to these people
cheers woodge
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What I’m tying to find out is if there’s any link between John Foster born in 1819 in Hockliffe Beds and a John Foster and Elizabeth Foster living in and around Drayton Parslow Bucks about 1640
they had a daughter called Christian ....John is a very common name but I have a lot of Johns in my Foster side and Hockliffe was around 10 miles away from Drayton Parslow coincidence or what ?
I’d really appreciate any help as I have drawn a blank at this point
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Ok so i found out John Foster Born 1819 in Hockliffe his father was Edward Foster 1783-1876 wife name was Sarah Weaver 1783-1862 his grandfather was John Foster 1760-1799 married Elizabeth Breed in 1781 Elizabeth was born 1761 but i still cant find any thing to link them back any help would be gratefully received :)
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Hi I don’t know if you are active anymore or if you have learnt anymore information but my great grandmother Went by both Evans and foster please contact me as I think she might have something to do with your relatives..
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Hello Germancelt,
Welcome to RootsChat :) I am sorry but it looks like your reply has been missed by the poster, they are still active.
Regards
Sarah
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Hi i did try and send germancelt a message
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New member with less than 2 posts are unable to your the PM function if that is what you used.
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that would explain the no reply :)