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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: Chris Pyne on Tuesday 07 June 16 07:30 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Please can anyone explain some annotations on this 1939 National Register entry;
1) The text in Blue " JM/C BLB 24758 CLARK" Could that be another change to married name in 1969 ?
2) I understand the change from Hindley to DAVIES, that was a marriage in 1942.
3) The red ??? text between 17 Dec and 12
4) Over the page fold does "Special Constable" refer to the entry for Richard Davies?
5) "See Page". How frustrating! Is there a way to view the rest of the text ? How would I get to view that page?
thanks for your assistance., Chris
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In the first place, there was no census in 1939! ;D
I presume you are referring to the 1939 National Register?
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I can't explain all the markings, but the blue/green marking looks to me more like ½M/c rather than JM/C. Could it mean they received half a married couple's rations?
As for it being a census, what's your definition of a census?
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As for it being a census, what's your definition of a census?
A census is a snapshot, taken on a single night/day.
The 1939 National Register was continually updated until the early 1990's.
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What would the reason be to get half of a married couples ration?
Was there a different ration for adult males as opposed to adult female?
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As for it being a census, what's your definition of a census?
A census is a snapshot, taken on a single night/day.
The 1939 National Register was continually updated until the early 1990's.
Initially the 1939 register was intended for wartime purposes.
It was only later AFTER the war that someone thought it could be used for another purpose. The name changed.
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As for it being a census, what's your definition of a census?
A census is a snapshot, taken on a single night/day.
The 1939 National Register was continually updated until the early 1990's.
What happened to men who had not been recorded on the 1939 Register because they were Merchant Navy officers or men?
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If they weren't on the Register, then they didn't get a National Identity card, and no Ration Book.
I think you'll find they were on the Register! ;D
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If they were away at sea, then they were correctly not recorded as living at their "home" address.
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Not 1/2 m/c meaning rations as Ivy Hindle married the above Richard Davies in 1940 and then the blue annotation might refer to 2nd marriage in 1969 to a James Clark. Rationing had stopped by 1969!
Maybe the blue annotation is a form of source, the author and a reference number for the change to Clark. The 1940 change to Davies has no source.
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Re: point 5, you can see the page, at the right of the screen is an arrow, use that arrow, to advance one page and at the bottom of that screen is a number showing how many images are in the set. The amendments are usually on the last or the last but one page. Either jump to the last or last but one number or use the right hand arrow to scroll through.
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If it is of any help, The text referred to is actually Green not Blue, there is a distinct difference on other pages. An entry I have in which an additional name is shown in green without the other name crossed out, refers to an alias, I know the person I was researching was known by both names.
Jebber
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If they weren't on the Register, then they didn't get a National Identity card, and no Ration Book.
I think you'll find they were on the Register! ;D
No, They were NOT on the register.
The Register was specifically for Civilians
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Re: point 5, you can see the page, at the right of the screen is an arrow, use that arrow, to advance one page and at the bottom of that screen is a number showing how many images are in the set. The amendments are usually on the last or the last but one page. Either jump to the last or last but one number or use the right hand arrow to scroll through.
Thanks, but in this case it does not seem to follow that pattern. The right arrow does go to a next page where every entry is hidden except a duplicated entry for Richard Davies. The differences are "12" for month instead of "Dec", no occupation and the comment is now "See Page 14". But there is no total of pages at bottom . There only seems to be these 2 pages in this set of images.
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Re: point 5, you can see the page, at the right of the screen is an arrow, use that arrow, to advance one page and at the bottom of that screen is a number showing how many images are in the set. The amendments are usually on the last or the last but one page. Either jump to the last or last but one number or use the right hand arrow to scroll through.
OK. Working now, by searching on the address. I can see all 22 pages in this set of images. The last page 22 has the duplicate with some missing information , and the reference to "See page 14" is to the original record. So when I do a person search it only shows the 2 relevant page images (14 and 22) as a subset. I now understand how it works but no further forward in terms of additional information on Richard Davies nor why he had a duplicated record added at the end of Register.
Thanks for all your contributions.
Chris
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Was he a special Constable?
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Was he a special Constable?
I do not know. That is new information. A quick search of this forum suggests that is not going to be easy to confirm, unless you know different? A previous inquiry to Lancashire Constabulary regarding the historical records of Special Constables was answered as "refer to Home Office".
thanks
Chris
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the duplicated entry may be there just to clarify his date of birth.
I've seen duplicated entries where the only 'difference' is a clarification of the house number of the address
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Re: point 5, you can see the page, at the right of the screen is an arrow, use that arrow, to advance one page and at the bottom of that screen is a number showing how many images are in the set. The amendments are usually on the last or the last but one page. Either jump to the last or last but one number or use the right hand arrow to scroll through.
OK. Working now, by searching on the address. I can see all 22 pages in this set of images. The last page 22 has the duplicate with some missing information , and the reference to "See page 14" is to the original record. So when I do a person search it only shows the 2 relevant page images (14 and 22) as a subset. I now understand how it works but no further forward in terms of additional information on Richard Davies nor why he had a duplicated record added at the end of Register.
Thanks for all your contributions.
Chris
The differences could be on the right hand page that we cannot see. It could be medical information
Cheers
Guy
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If they weren't on the Register, then they didn't get a National Identity card, and no Ration Book.
I think you'll find they were on the Register! ;D
If they were not at the address on the night or in the morning then they were not to be entered on the forms.
Merchant Navy personnel had Merchant Navy Identity cards.
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I get that if they were away at sea they weren't on the register, but what happened when they came home, they needed i.d. cards and ration books ? I am looking at several men who aren't on the register but their families are. Where did they register ?
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There were later registers that have not been made available for digitisation and transcription
see 6.2
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/
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That's very interesting Dawnsh, but where can we see them - National Archives? Not sure what the 6.2 in your reply means.
Terry
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I see what the 6.2 means now (sorry not the sharpest knife today) Reading that guide gives the impression that the 1939 register was carried out in England & Wales, does this mean that a separate exercise was carried out in Scotland, Northern Ireland, Isle of Man, Channel Islands etc.
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Yes, there were regional registers.
Scotlands People is working on the Scottish one, it will be available soon.
The registers are not at Kew.
They were used by the NHS after 1948 until 1991 and formed the basis of their records systems.
They are held by the NHS, see 5 in the link.
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Dawnsh, Thank you for your interesting replies re 1939 register. Perhaps you can clarify somethings for me. The redacted entries, why? Can they be uncovered if the subject is dead? I notice that all entries are on the left page, what is on the opposite page ? I don't live in Liverpool but was there last week and I learned from a number of people that there is still much to be digitised, particularly that referring to seaman. Regarding to parts of the register used and held by NHS, has that been digitised, can it be accessed? Also those entries of military and seamen, which I will assume will included those civilians on war duties. Is there an informal authorative guide I can see?
Best wishes,
Terry
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Please refer back to the link to the National Archives 1939 register
See all sections under 9
In a nutshell, there is a rolling 100 year rule so those born before 1921 are automatically opened.
Early in 2023, all the births for 2022 will be opened.
Where you can provide proof of death with a certificate and the address in 1939, closed records will be opened if the details match.
All those marked as deceased by 1991 by the NHS are automatically opened.
No, you can't view the registers, they are held by the NHS.
You can pay to have records searched for deceased and living people
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/PaidSearch/FOI1939Register
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/paidsearch/DSA1939Register
In the majority of cases, the right hand page can be mainly blank but some have details such as ARP wardens, ambulance drivers and other war work, outside of the military
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Many thanks for your replies, they are much appreciated, really helps me to get to grips with the register.