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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: diplodicus on Sunday 19 June 16 09:08 BST (UK)
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On page 2 of the 1861 census for Alltwalis, Walter Walters is living at ...
I think it says "Snaesisa". Is that correct?
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Wondered if it might be "Maes isa" (the" lower field")
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Is this address continued on the previous or following census page where the writing may be clearer? You could also check page one to see if it is mentioned in the description of the enumeration district.
Just checked - the first letter doesn't look like the other Ss or Ms or As on the census page. (and I see this is the only mention of this address)
Added: following the enumerator's walk on a detailed map of the area might find this place. :-\
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Do you have the census reference to check place names either side. I'm looking at an 1887 map of Alltwalis to locate a possible "Maes isa" - no luck yetn
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It's been transcribed as "Macsisa" by FindMyPast!!
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Thanks for your suggestions. I want to assume it's Maes Isa but it just doesn't seem to stack up. I tried following the enumerator's route but for once I can't identify any of the dwellings on the OS 1:10,000 map.
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I can see Bedw hirion on the 1887 map. Maes isa? is Schedule Entry No 4, bedw hirion is no 6?
Spring might be "Spring Garden", also on map?
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I'm failing miserably trying to find any of the places on the enumerator's route. I've only located Clyn-glas:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=16&lat=51.9737&lon=-4.2321&layers=6&right=BingHyb
:-\
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I can see Maes y rhiw (sch no 7)and the woollen factory (sch no 2?) on the map - but cannot see anything in the locale that ends "isa"
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If it is Maes Isa, as there is only one family living there it may have been so small as to not warrant being marked on a map. If it was "the lower field" then you wouldn't expect to see that on a map and it may have been the only way to identify where the family lived (a local rather than official name for the house)? :-\
Have you tried an address search on earlier and later censuses?
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I can see a couple of items on Welshnewspapers on line that refer to "Maes Isaf, Allt(y)walis" - but having problems displaying the original article.
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The addresses run "1. Penybont, 2. Alltwalis Factory (the woolleen factory?), 3. Alltwalis gate, 4. Maes(?) isa, ...".
There's an 1859 newspaper (Welsh newspapers) report of an attempt to avoid the full toll at Alltywalis Gate. Where was the toll gate in/near Allt(y) walis?
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I can;t get imges up but I can see a (badly) auto-transcribed line from 1900 - Yr oedd annedd.dt Maes Isaf, Alltywalis, yn anaddas I fyw ynddo - in part of article regarding a report to the Newcastle Emlyn RDC from I think the Public Health Inspector. I guess this text to say that the hovel Maes Isaf, Alltwalis is unsauitable for human habitation. There is further text but without sight of the actual print I can;t decipher it completely or be sure it has any relation to the previous sentence.
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Found a better transcribed version of a report on the same meeting (original language English)
The Inspector of Nuisances gave his monthly report, and stated that the cottage on Alltwalis Farm, Llanfihangel called Maesisaf was quite unfit for human habitation, and that Mr. R. Browne, solicitor, Carmarthen, the agent to the owners, had taken no notice of the three warnings he had sent him. Mr. Thomas Davies moved, Mr. William Jones seconded, and it was resolved that proceedings be taken against the agent to close the house.
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This might also help - from the sale particulars of the Alltwalis estate in 1855. Does suggest it's near the turnpike gate
LOT III. All that Dwelling House, Factory, Cottage and Premises, with Garden and and small Field, situate near the turnpike Gate, now in the several occupations of Eleanor Jones and David Davies, as tenants-at-will, containing la. 11'. 18p., be the game more or less.
LOT IV. All that Shop, Dwelling House, Blacksmith's Forge, Garden and Field, situate in the Village of Alltywalis, now in the occupation of David Davies. Also, a COTTAGE and GARDEN, in the occupation of Walter Walters, as tenant-at- will, containing together Ia. 2r. 24p., be the same more or less.
N.B. The Shop, Dwelling House, Blacksmith's Forge, Garden, and Field, in the occupation of David Davies, are held by him under a Lease for the life of Margaret Davies, aged 48.
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If you go to www.old-maps.co.uk and use the postcode SA32 7EB as the search term,then use the most modern 1:2500 map at the maximum zoom available,it's right there.
Regards
Roger
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RG10 5547 57 12
1871 Census (schedule No. in brackets) -
63. Penllwyd goed (Llwydcoed on 1887 map?)
64. Maes uchaf (Head, Thomas Davies, Master Blacksmith)
65. Alltwalis Factory
66. Alltwalis gate
"Isa" in '61, "uchaf" in '71?
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In the 1881 Census Walter Walters, age 55 is at "Maes isaf" (Sch No. 2), nestling between "1. Factory, 3. Alltwalis Gate, 4. Alltwalis Farm",
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If you go to www.old-maps.co.uk and use the postcode SA32 7EB as the search term,then use the most modern 1:2500 map at the maximum zoom available,it's right there.
Regards
Roger
You wouldn't expect it to still be there in 1978 if it was unfit for human habitation in 1900. They must have "done it up". ;D
It seems as though between the three of you, it has been found, which is good news. :)
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THANK YOU
That's a huge thank you for all the clarity your endeavours have bought to the problem of an 1861 enumerator that appears to have been the worse for the demon drink!!!
Kind regards to you all,
Malcolm
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Croeso