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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Nairnshire => Topic started by: Tall Al on Monday 20 June 16 17:34 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am looking for census/marriage/death information for the above family who I think settled in Ardclach, Nairn (although originally from Inverness-shire).
Father Charles Ross (born c 1800) married Amelia Fraser (born c1803 in Alvie, Inverness) on 29 Dec 1821 in Inverness.
They seem to have 3 children - Ann (bap 28 Feb 1822) Alexandrina (bap 27 July 1825) and Jane (bap 28 Feb 1829).
I know Alexandrina married John Fraser in Nairn in 1849, had 11 children and I think died in Glasgow in 1894 but again have little precise information.
Any help appreciated
Many thanks
Alan
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Hi the family in 1841 census:-
Charles Ross 40
Emelia 40
Jane 12
Alexina 14
Residing at Balnacraig, Ardlach, Nairn
1851 census for Alexandrina:-
John Frazer 25 occ Shoemaker ( Journeyman ) b Moreyshire
Alexandrina 24 b Inverness
Donald 1 Nairn
Anne 0 b Nairn
Residng at 107, High Street, Nairn
1851 for Charles/Amelia:-
Charles Ross 52 occ Forest Lab b Ross & Cromarty
Amelia 56 b Kirkhill, Inverness
Residing at same address as 1841 census
Keyboard86
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Hi,
Thank you for the census details - much appreciated. Do you know where Charles and Amelia where in 1861/71?
Ann (1822) wasn't with the family in 1841 nor was Jane (1829) in 1851. Do you know what may have happened to either of them?
Alan
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Scotlands People have the death of an
Amelia Fraser, other surname Ross, in Ardclach, Nairn in 1858, birth year 1790.
The age is out compared with the 1851 census, but she wouldn't be the first to smudge her dob. (I've got one spinster that lost a few years every census until she ended up 15 years younger than she actually was on the 1891!) Downloading the death certificate from SP should give you her parents' names, assuming it is your Amelia.
This would fit with the following entries on Freecen for Ardclach:
1861 Census:
Charles working for farmer James Mann, address Cairnglass
ROSS Charles Servnt Wid M 58 Ag Lab Ross and Cromarty - Kincardine
1871 Census:
Charles living with the Minister Rev Henry Macleod in the Free Church Manse:
ROSS Charles - Wid M 70 Agricultural Labourer Ross and Cromarty - Rosskeen
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Hi,
Many thanks - it is much appreciated.
Now to find out what happened to the daughters and Charles himself.
Alan
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Word of caution: you can't be sure that is your Amelia until you see the actual certificate.
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There is a death for a Charles Ross, born 1798, dying in Nairn in 1872. Freecen have Alexandrina and husband at 1 Simpson St., Nairn on the 1871 census so they may have taken an ailing father in. Again, would need to see the actual certificate to be sure. You need to invest in some Scotlands People credits to get the two certificates.
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Hi,
Thank you, I realise that I will need to invest in Scotlands People credits to verify everything - I will do this in due course.
For now I am trying to glean information and from what I can see I think one daughter Jane Ross (1829) may have married James Cuthbert in Ardclach on 27 June 1856.
By 1861 James is a widower with two children Margaret (23/6/1857) and James (27/8/1859).
Is it possible she died in childbirth? Is there a death for a Jane Ross (other surname Cuthbert) around 1859?
As you say it may not be the right family but I want to try and gather some facts before I spend money on credits.
Alan
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Scotlands People have a death for a Jean (Jean and Jane were interchangeable) Cuthbert, other name Ross, born c1830, dying in Nairn in 1860. In the 1861 Census, according to Freecen, James Cuthbert and daughters are living at 22, Acre St., Nairn.
Scotlands People also have the James Cuthbert-Jane Ross marriage in Ardlach in 1856.
Censuses show John and Alexanderina Fraser still at 1, Simpson St., Nairn in the 1881 (occup. ostler) and 1891 (occup. coachman) Censuses.
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Hi,
Thank you once more.
It is interesting that both Alexandrina's and Jane's possible husbands were both Shoemakers.
Scotlands People web site looms closer. I wondered if you possibly could find what could have happened to the other daughter Ann Ross (born 1822).
She doesn't jump out at me on the 1841 census - would it be reasonable to think she had died in infancy?
Another option that seems possible is that she was away from home as a servant and potentially then married an Alexander Campbell. The 1851/61/71 census at Nairn have a potential Ann(e) that may fit.
If you have thoughts I would be pleased to hear from you.
Alan
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Hi again Alan, in 1841 Ann Ross aged 20 is a Female Servant with a Janet & Helen Cameron at Mill Road, Nairn, Jane in 1851 is 22 b Croy a Servant for a John/Jane Pearson and family at Tirhall, Nairn
Keyboard86
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It is interesting that both Alexandrina's and Jane's possible husbands were both Shoemakers.
Often happens that a girl marries someone in a trade and her sister marries one of his partners/colleagues in the same trade. Also quite common for a girl to marry someone in the same trade as her father for the same reason - social access.
Anne Ross is far too common a name to track down with any certainty. There are 4 possibles in Nairnshire itself on Freecen 1841 and she could be in Invernesshire, Morayshire or another county. It is likely that the daughter of an agricultural labourer would have left school by 11 and be working, often away from home as some sort of servant, so not surprising that she is not on the 1841 at home with her parents. Alexina, 14 is a female servant on the 1841.
It is before the 1855 statutory death records so no way of knowing if she died before that date or not. Will need some luck to find her.
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There are 4 Jane Ross entries on Freecen 1851 in Nairn which could be her given we don't have a place of birth for her. And Freecen is not complete so she could be on one of the untranscribed pages.
Addition: Family Search have her born in Inverness. That being the case, the following looks promising if she is still alive:
1 Falconers Lane, Nairn.
Ross Jane, servant, U, F, 20, house servant, Inverness, Invernesshire.
in the house of a flesher and vintner, Duncan Ross with his wife, 3 daughters and another servant. Possible relative?
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There are 4 Jane Ross entries on Freecen 1851 in Nairn which could be her given we don't have a place of birth for her. And Freecen is not complete so she could be on one of the untranscribed pages.
Addition: Family Search have her born in Inverness. That being the case, the following looks promising if she is still alive:
1 Falconers Lane, Nairn.
Ross Jane, servant, U, F, 20, house servant, Inverness, Invernesshire.
in the house of a flesher and vintner, Duncan Ross with his wife, 3 daughters and another servant. Possible relative?
These are part of my wider Ross's I cannot say that Jane is or is not related. However all the family Ross births I am aware of, are in Nairn.
This is Duncan newly married to second wife Margaret Cameron, perhaps that is why there are 2 servants?
Actually, I have not found the death of first wife - Janet Bowie, but must have been between April 1849 with birth of last daughter and Feb 1851- Duncan's marriage to Margaret!
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hi with regards to your ross family,i dont know much at moment but i do have my great grandmother jessie campbell(maiden name rattray), whose first marriage was to a daniel ross, he apparently died in inverness in 1910. she then married my great grandfather william simpson campbell in 1915 in nairn. could daniel be connected to you in any way? areas are similar, so strong possibility. i have yet to find a marriage cert for her and daniel though. i only know this info as on her marriage to my great grandad her name is down as ross and widow, on her death cert she is edgar and daniel is listed as 1st husband.i have no idea if there were any children between her and daniel.
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Hi
Sorry but I do not have any Daniel Ross's - I am not saying there are definitely not any - just that I have not found any!
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Highland Family History published a couple of articles on Inverness shoemaker families in their journal a wee while ago.
Skoosh.
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Hi I have a ross in my tree , but only through marriage. My great grandmother Jessie Campbell's first husband was a ross, I had it as Daniel but we think now it is David. Not 100% sure. I know her maiden name was rattray . We don't have much more to go on than that apart fro. When she married my great grandfather William simpson Campbell in 1915 she states she is a widow so her david/Daniel must have died quite young. Jessie and her family were from roughly the same areas, ardclach, village of auldearn, meikle urchany etc . Sorry can't be of more help to you. I do not even know if she and david/Daniel had any children before he died.
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Sorry have just written a reply then looked through the comments and saw that I'd already replied a while back! Teach me to to look first. Apologies 😁
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William Simpson Campbell was my grandfather and Jessie was my grandma (I have two photos of her). My mom was Johanna Macintosh Campbell and she was born in Elgin in 1918 and had a brother Johnny, a brother William and a sister Beth.
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Patty: I believe you are my half second cousin. I would love to see the two photographs you have of your grandmother, Jessie. I have photographs of Jessie's half-brother, which I can send to you. This is my second post to RootsChat and I shall make one more in order to be allowed to send a private message.
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Hello Alan and others,
I just read this material. One of Alexandrina and John Fraser's 11 chhildren was my grandfather Donald Fraser. He came to Australia and settled in Balmain working as a seaman (ships cook) on Australian coastal ships. He put his age down in 1915 to be accepted as a cook on a troopship carrying Australian troops to the Great War. He was torpedoed twice and died in Glasgow in 1920 never having returned home. I have lots of detail if it is of interest to anyone - I realise he was not a Ross by name.
Bryce Fraser
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Hello Alan and others,
I just read this material. One of Alexandrina and John Fraser's 11 chhildren was my grandfather Donald Fraser. He came to Australia and settled in Balmain working as a seaman (ships cook) on Australian coastal ships. He put his age down in 1915 to be accepted as a cook on a troopship carrying Australian troops to the Great War. He was torpedoed twice and died in Glasgow in 1920 never having returned home. I have lots of detail if it is of interest to anyone - I realise he was not a Ross by name.
Bryce Fraser
Was your grandfather born in Inverness? If so he is mentioned couple of online Crew Agreements. One for the Troopship ASCANIUS, the other a merchant vessel named THORNHILL.
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Thanks Seaweed,
Yes. He left Australia in the Ascanius, and was aboard Allendale when it was torpedoed near the Lizard in March 1918.
This reply is from memory since it is about 20 years since I last worked on him. I have the records and will pursue them now.
I would be interested in the online records as when I was working on him there were none.
Thanks.
Bryce
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Here is the link to the Crew Agreements.
https://1915crewlists.rmg.co.uk/crew-member?crew_member_search[lastName]=fraser&crew_member_search[firstName]=do
Unfortunately, the images of the original Crew Agreements are failing to load (A weekend glitch?) but you can still see the basic information.
He served on THORNHILL 16/09/1915 - 09/12/15
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/viewimages?regtype=MNL&year=1915&name=THORNHILL&steamsail=Steam&page=585
ASCANIUS18/02/15 -22/07/15
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/viewimages?regtype=MNL&year=1915&name=ASCANIUS&steamsail=Steam&page=37
Before that he served on the Australian Coastal Steamer BLAXLAND
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/viewimages?regtype=MNL&year=1915&name=BLAXLAND&steamsail=Steam&page=66
This seems to tie up with the information you already have.
ALLENDALE O/N 140416.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2480803
Theoretically you could trace all of the vessels he sailed on. Crew Agreements give the name or official number of his previous ship. By backtracking via Crew Agreements. With a little luck you can find details of his entire seagoing career. It's time consuming and can be expensive unless you have easy access to the British National Archive.
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Hello again, Seaweed
After the Allendale sinking, Donald on 14 May 1918, signed onto the War African. I found its log in the PRO Kew. He suffered an injury at sea off the US Carolinas on 9 September 1918 and was discharged from the ship into the Long Island College Hospital in Brooklyn NYC, his personal gear and pay allottments being place in the care of the British Vice Consul. Discharged six weeks later, he arrived back in Glasgow four days after the Armistice.
Taken with your data, his first sinking must have been between the Thornhill and the Allendale.
Bryce Fraser
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Hello all
I realise I'm replying to an old topic here. Currently working on this branch of my tree; I'm a descendant of Charles Ross / Amelia Fraser, via their daughter Jane Fraser (who married James Cuthbert).