RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: tammiegirl on Wednesday 22 June 16 20:57 BST (UK)
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We are over here on holiday ,my Husbands Great,Great Grandfather was James Hogg &. His wife Mary Sloan from Glebe , Ahoghill ,Antrim .They were Presbyterian,s could any body tell us which Presbyterian church they would have been buried in 1902 please .we have been out to the 1st Presbyterian church on the Galgorm Rd but it seems to new ,is there an older one. Any help would be appreciated .
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Hi Tammiegirl,
Churches in Ahoghill are:
First Ahoghill Pb on Straid Road
Brookside Pb on Brook Street
Trinity Pb on Church Street
St Colmanell's Church of Ireland on Church Street
Gospel Hall on Glenhugh Road
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahoghill
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The "1st" designation usually means that it was the earliest congregation in the locality.
In fact "1st Ahoghill" is one of the earliest Pb congregations in Ireland, dating from 1654.
They just built themselves a new church building.
No hint on their website of an associated graveyard.
http://www.firstahoghill.co.uk/
http://brooksidepc.org/content/brookside-history
[Dating back to 1770, a spin out from Randalstown.
From the photos, it seems to have an adjacent graveyard.]
http://www.trinityahoghill.co.uk/history-congregation/
[Its congregation dates back to a split in 1806.
Its associated graveyard dates from 1829, due to the parish burying ground becoming full.]
Generally, the traditional resting place of families was in the CoI "Parish" burial ground.
[Usually, in most places, denominational burial grounds did not appear till the late 19thC.
Though Jews and Quakers were granted special separate arrangements much earlier.]
The Ulster Historical Foundation's graveyard inscription database lists 2 HOGG entries for Drummaul ...
[Drummaul was an adjacent parish to Ahoghill, in which Randalstown was situated.
It was common for folks to be buried "back home" with their ancestral families.]
http://www.ancestryireland.com/family-records/gravestone-inscriptions/
Expect that further help from local-knowlegable folks will follow.
The ideal would be a report of a burial notice from a local newspaper.
Hope that this has helped to orient you.
All the best for your visit/endeavours!
Capt. Jock
P.S. There is no entry for HOGG in Robert BELL's "Ulster Surnames".
[It only lists the 500 commonest surnames.]
Much of the migration to the area around Ballymena was from the NE of Scotland.
A James HOGG was the famous "Ettrick Shepherd" poet, supported by Walter SCOTT, from near Selkirk, about 40 miles due South of Edinburgh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hogg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettrick,_Scotland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Private_Memoirs_and_Confessions_of_a_Justified_Sinner
[..."seen as a study of religious fanaticism through its deeply critical portrait of the Calvinist concept of predestination".]
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Hi Whuttle, Thanks for your help . We will go back toAhoghill today ,I only want a photo for my family tree .
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From ANTRIM RESOURCES at the top of ANTRIM board-
View maps for location of County Antrim graveyards- you can filter by denomination and other N.I. counties are also available.
http://historyfromheadstones.com/index.php?antrim
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The townland of "Glebe of Ahoghill" lies directly South of Ahoghill town.
[On the "Glebe Road", which eventually turns in the "Ahoghill Road" as you approach Randalstown.]
http://www.thebraid.com/downloads/Ballymena-Townland-Map.pdf
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Thankyou Whuttle and Aghadowey for your help .
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We are over here on holiday ,my Husbands Great,Great Grandfather was James Hogg &. His wife Mary Sloan from Glebe , Ahoghill ,Antrim .They were Presbyterian,s could any body tell us which Presbyterian church they would have been buried in 1902 please .we have been out to the 1st Presbyterian church on the Galgorm Rd but it seems to new ,is there an older one. Any help would be appreciated .
There’s this gravestone inscription in 1st Ahoghill graveyard for Hogg of Glebe (the graveyard is beside the old church in the village):
Erected by Hugh Hogg, Glebe in 1957. In loving memory of his wife Mary Hogg who died 7th January 1946 Also the above named Hugh Hogg who died 26th February 1950 And their daughter Martha Ann Bailie who died 25th September 1979 Also her beloved husband David Bailie who died 2nd December 1983.
None for James Hogg or wife Mary.
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Hi Elwyn, Thankyou very much for that information. Hugh Hogg was James & Mary,s Youngest Son ,When they died in 1902 they left the Farm to Hugh . Hugh & Mary had 3 Children . The Two Son,s James Henry ,& Hugh John went to live in New Zealand ,in. fact I have been helping Their 3 xGrandson who now lives in America with some information.I will pass this on to him as Well . Thanks again .
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Tammiegirl,
Here's a list of graveyards in Ahoghill:
Graveyard Name Denomination Townland OS Ref
Ahoghill Old OX Ahoghill D050016
Ahoghill 1st Pres PR Ahoghill D052016
Trinity Pres PR Ahoghill D050014
Brookside Pres PR Ahoghill D049018
Gracehill Moravian MO Gracehill D074019
Ahoghill RC RC Lismurnaghan D044011
Ahoghill CI CI Carmacmoin D049013
Ref: http://www.ancestryireland.com/family-records/graveyards-in-ulster/?search1=&search2=ahoghill&search3=&dropdown=Antrim&submit=Search
So. looks like each church (eventually) had its own graveyard.
I'd still keep the CoI churchyard in mind.
Even though it was (apparently) declared "full" in 1829, this would only have impacted families wanting to create "new" plots there. However, families with existing (non-full) plots still would have been able to use them for internments.
You must consider that James HOGG and Mary SLOAN might be buried apart, in plots c/o their parent families.
[Such was a common practice, even up to modern times e.g. my grandparents.]
Family History anecdotes, or Newspaper reports, will be crucial here.
Capt. Jock
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Hi Whuttle ,we have been out to the Old 1stAhoghill Presbyterian could not flnd it there .I think we might have to give up on finding it this Holiday. But thanks for all your help .
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The gravestone inscription is listed on the Braid site as being in Ahoghill 1sts graveyard:
http://thebraid.com/genealogy.aspx
There’s another Hogg gravestone in that graveyard too. No mention of which townland.
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Hi Elwyn, we did see the other Hogg Grave .we will go back tomorrow and look again for Hugh's grave So I can take a photo . Thankyou for your help .
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Searched the "Irish Newspapers" online holdings at FindMyPast.
First Name james Surname hogg with associated keyword ahoghill.
[The titles in that collection include "Ballymena Observer", "Larne Times", "Belfast News-Letter", "Belfast Morning News". "Belfast Morning News", "The Northern Whig", etc.]
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search/irish-newspapers?firstname=james&lastname=hogg&keywords=ahoghill
Unfortunately no joy.
[Hint: To make the visual searching more manageable, restrict the Article Type to Family Notices. ]
Quite a few articles came up from using "glebe, ahoghill" for the keywords only, no surname.
One reference was to a Dr. HOGG who was a Rector at Randalstown ...
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PRONI's Guide to Church Records (P.58) lists the burials at CoI Ahoghill as covering 1821-1952.
PRONI Refs: MIC583/9; CR/1/90
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/proni-guide-church-records
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Guide_to_church_records.pdf
Worth a visit to PRONI to check, seeing as you are in the area?
You might find some earlier ancestors!
[Caveat: CoI burial registers may not always include internments of Dissenters.]
While at PRONI, you could get a copy of:
"Administration of the estate of James Hogg late of The Glebe Ahoghill County Antrim Farmer who died 10 March 1902 granted at Belfast to Mary Hogg the Widow. Effects £175 15s"
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/search-will-calendars
None of PRONI's holdings of newspapers on microfilm seem to cover the relevant period.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/newspapers-available-microfilm
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/newspapers-on-microfilm.pdf
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Off back to port now.
All the best onwards.
Capt. Jock
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While at PRONI, you could get a copy of:
"Administration of the estate of James Hogg late of The Glebe Ahoghill County Antrim Farmer who died 10 March 1902 granted at Belfast to Mary Hogg the Widow. Effects £175 15s"
Administration means there was no Will so what PRONI will have is the administration paperwork- sometimes very little information on a form or two and at other times lots more detail
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Thankyou Cap Jock and Aghadowey ,Elwyn gave me the Braid ,Headstone site I found some of my Husbands Family ,the Parkers from BallyMcVea on there I am going to check out Conner New Church be we go home.Is there a site showing Presbyterian church's as the Braid does not cover it . Thanks again for your help .
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From ANTRIM RESOURCES at the top of ANTRIM board-
View maps for location of County Antrim graveyards- you can filter by denomination and other N.I. counties are also available.
http://historyfromheadstones.com/index.php?antrim
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Hi, this is an amazing coincidence. My family and I are currently in Ahoghill with my father in law Mr HOGG. We have just visited the HOGG grave at the church and the Glebe fields. Hugh had other siblings, one being John Hogg who is the great grandfather of my father in law. We have employed the services of a company that specialises in ancestry for the TV program "who do you think you are" ! I googled James Hogg & Ahoghill and found your post on rootschat. It would be amazing to know more about Hugh's descendants in the USA. We live in the U.K. - John Hogg, Hugh's brother migrated to Liverpool and, as aforementioned is the great grandfather of my father in law.
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Hi, Do you mean John Hogg 1855-1950,he was Married to Elizabeth Jane Harris.If So ,James Hogg was my Husbands 2xGreatGrandfather .Hugh Who,sGrave you have just seen ,his Two sons went to New Zealand ,I have all their information and can put you in touch with their Grandson .we live in England .
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Hi, yes that's it. John and Elizabeth were parents to, among others, James Hogg who married Mary Victoria Harland who are the parents of Thomas Hogg , my father in law who also has siblings James, Joseph(d), Hugh(d) & Edith. It would start to extend the perspective if we were able to reach out to Hugh's descendants- not too sure how we are supposed to exchange info - I've only just registered having discovered your post via my google search....
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Hi,
Well that's strange ,for the last few nights I have been putting the 1939 Register on James &Mary v Tree ,in 1939they were with their two Son,s ,but I cannot find a Death Date for James .
Hugh ,s Son ,Hugh John ,Grandsonlives in America .
Did you know James &Mary had 9children ,that I know off .David Hogg 1869 also went to live in Liverpool .
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Hi, David went to Liverpool with his brother John (Thomas's grandad) - they were Sugar Boilers at Tate & Lyle. Hugh's brother John had 6 children with Elizabeth (+ 2 others who died before 1911. We also know James married Mary Sloan on 25 Sep 1852.... we have found 6 children (Mary, John, William, James, David (who married Mary Kinnaire in 1896) and Hugh) it's been a fascinating day - we are still in Northern Ireland tonight flying back to mainland tomorrow. We should work out how to get the hogg relations in touch.
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Hi,
When you get back send me a Pm with your Email and I will get back to you .We are. Going over to Ballymena in September .Samhas siblings living there .James &Mary also had Children Ann 1865-1875 ,Samuel1866-1887 ,Jane 1870 ,Robert 1872 , I did not know about Mary.Sam is 2nd cousin 1 removed to Thomas .
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Excuse my ignorance , what's a Pm ?
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Hi, David went to Liverpool with his brother John (Thomas's grandad) - they were Sugar Boilers at Tate & Lyle.
I have both John and David Hogg on the Sugar Refiners database at www.mawer.clara.net/sugarhhoy.html
John 1881 to 1911 - labourer, becoming boiler/panman.
David 1891-1839 - labourer through to retirement.
John is mentioned in JA Watson's 'A Hundred Years of Sugar Refining, The Story of Love Lane Refinery, 1872-1972', page 111 - one of ten panmen employed by Tate's in 1889. If you can't, or don't wish to, find a copy of the book, just PM me your email address and I'll send a scan of the page.
I hope you don't mind me saying, but they both worked for Henry Tate & Sons in the records we have ... it did not become Tate & Lyle until 1921.