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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: lockhaven on Friday 01 July 16 14:56 BST (UK)
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Not sure if anybody can help me out.
I've tried with no luck to find the date of death for my x2 Great Grandfather, Alexander Fraser. It's most frustrating since I've used multiple credits on SP, and none of them have been him.
Here's the details...
Alexander Fraser
b. 1 Jul 1864, Old Machar, Aberdeen
d. ? (most likely between 1901 - 1920)
His parents are Alexander Fraser (b. 1841 Fraserburgh, Aberdeen - 1904 Dennistoun, Lanark) and Marjory Russell Stevenson (1836 St. Nicholas, Aberdeen - 1903 Dennistoun, Lanark)
He was married to Jane Spence (born abt 1865 Ireland - 1920 Garnethill, Lanark) on 24 Aug 1888, Glasgow, Lanark.
I have him in a 1891 Census in Dennistoun with Jane, and their children, Catherine & Alexander, occupation, Jeweller's Assistant. I also found them in 1901 in Cathcart, Lanark, with Jane and children, Catherine, Alexander, Bestic (Andrew) and Marjory working as a Jeweller.
On Jane's death certificate, 09 Jul 1920 he's listed as deceased. So I know that he most likely passed away between 1901 and 1920.
Alexander & Jane's children are....
Catherine Fraser 1889 -
Alexander Fraser 1890 - 1954 (my Great Grandfather)
Andrew Spence Fraser 1893 -
Marjory Fraser 1896 -
When I searched SP for death certificates, I figured Lanark would be the right county. If I search between 1901 - 1920, there's 2 results. Neither sound right, the first Stone Quarrier, married to a Harriet McKenzie, died in 1912, the other was one with no information that was found dead in Glasgow, supposed to be an alcoholic, in 1913. (I'm hoping that isn't him)
I'm not sure if anybody has any ideas of how I might be able to find this, I'd very much appreciate any help, thanks!!
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He's alive in 1911 in Lanark -- but I don't think we are allowed to give details of 1911. Hence his death is AFTER 1911.
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His children's marriage info should also help by confirming whether father was alive or deceased at the time of their marriage.
Monica
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I was just about to post the same thing Pennines.
A quick search of SP shows a match on the 1911 census in Milton.
Alex, age 46, Jane age 47 and Marjory age 15 all match to the household.
Would be best to obtain this and confirm that it's the correct family
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I also agree with Monica's suggestion about the children's marriages. I have looked in the Glasgow newspapers to 1920 but cannot see an announced death for him.
Re 1911 - I do think it's him - birthplace is correct. Occupation has changed though.
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Death of Alexander Fraser, age 50 registered in Milton 1913.
Is this one that you already found?
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Sound likely, Anne :-\
Both sons, Alexander and William look to have married in Canada. No mention of whether father was alive or deceased at the time.
Monica
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Thanks so much everyone.
Unfortunately, both his sons, Alexander & Andrew both left for Canada before that and married in Ontario. (which doesn't show whether the parents were alive or not) They were also both fighting in the war in the mid 19-teens. I haven't been able to find any info on the youngest, Marjory, but the eldest daughter Catherine, I don't think she married until later in life, after 1920, so that wouldn't be too helpful.
That's really helpful to know that the 1911 census puts them in Milton, I think you've solved it. Unfortunately when you start digging into ancestry, you do find some things you wish you didn't in a way. The Alexander Fraser that died in 1913, I think that is indeed him because it was also from Milton, which would line up. I'm attaching it, because it's not always easy to read, but I think it says Alexander Fraser, joiner? (which isn't jeweller, so I didn't think that added up), 24 Aug 1913. Found dead, St. Andrew's Home? 25 G_ _ _ _ _ _ _ Lane, Glasgow. No fixed residence. (sorry it was cut off) About 50 years. Probably Alcoholism, Asphyscia. sudden death, no medical attendant.
So it sounds like he was unfortunately an alcoholic, that might be one reason why Jane Spence frequently shows up at her parent's house during the censuses, without him listed. Also possibly another reason why the boys weren't living at home in 1911. One good thing, I didn't waste a few of my SP credits after all.
Thank-you everybody again for your help, you're always helping solve the family mysteries, much appreciated!
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There is an RCE attached to this death Cert.
Does it give any more onfo?
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There is an RCE attached to this death Cert.
Does it give any more onfo?
Never even noticed that, nice catch, do you know where I would find this, is it on SP?
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Go to your SP acct and find this death cert.
Only from here can you access the RCE.
It costs a couple of credits
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Thanks!
It turns out, I don't believe it's him after all. The extra details don't line up. I've attached. His parents definitely weren't John Fraser & Margaret Macdonald. He also wasn't a carpenter.
Is it ever possible that they lose a death certificate? There don't seem to be any other Alexander Fraser's that passed away between 1901-1920 in the Lanark area.
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He wasn't a Joiner in 1911. He was a Commission agent - furniture. Have a look at that census regarding the number of children still alive then as well.
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Just a thought...with the Canadian connection, could he have died abroad?
Have you got anything on the travel for son Andrew who married in Ontario in 1915? Is this your tree on a/try by chance? http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/72833988/person/46324184285/facts This one has the 1913 death I think that you mention that with the details contained seem to indicate it is certainly not the one...
Monica
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He wasn't a Joiner in 1911. He was a Commission agent - furniture. Have a look at that census regarding the number of children still alive then as well.
Thanks for that, I'll have to wait to look up the Census, I'm fresh out of credits. I'll add it to the list to look up later.
When I did a quick 1911 Census, (I only had 3 credits left) it showed one Alexander Fraser, Age 50, District Hutchesontown, Glasgow City, Lanark. Does that match up with the one you're talking about?
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Alexander Snr's death in 1918 in Wentworth https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J6DL-9ZS
Sad reasons for death :-\
Monica
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I'll send you a personal message.
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Brilliant find Monica!
Mother's name is correct so it is him.
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Such a young age to die from what he did :-\ He must have been in decline for a number of years.
Monica
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There is a Canadian arrival for an Alexander Fraser aged 49 on 22/4/1913 on the Cassandra. Glasgow to St John's. Occupation Salesman. That could be him.
I suppose he could have had a heart attack - or contracted some disease. Very sad though to travel all that way and die in a 'foreign' land.
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Just a thought...with the Canadian connection, could he have died abroad?
Have you got anything on the travel for son Andrew who married in Ontario in 1915? Is this your tree on a/try by chance? http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/72833988/person/46324184285/facts This one has the 1913 death I think that you mention that with the details contained seem to indicate it is certainly not the one...
Monica
Good thought, but I don't know if that's possible. I haven't found any immigration / travel papers for Alexander & his brother Andrew coming into Canada, but I know they were here because of their Attestation Papers in 1915. Andrew lists his next of kin as Agnes Bayer (his wife) and Alexander as his mother, Jeanie Fraser, (his mom) 94 Hill St, Garnet Hill, Glasgow. If his dad had come over with them, and was still alive, I would think Alexander would have listed his next of kin as his father, not his mother in Scotland? Just a thought. I can't seem to find Alexander or Andrew in the 1911 Canada Census. So I'm thinking they came over between 1911-1914ish. Andrew married Agnes in Dec. 1914, so they would have had to been in Canada before that.
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Sorry, didn't see your replies before I posted that last one, will look over everything now, wow, you guys are good!
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... I would think Alexander would have listed his next of kin as his father, not his mother in Scotland? Just a thought.
Standard practice to show mother as next of kin on enlistment papers in the UK at that time. Not sure if the same in Canada? If father's details were given as N.O.K., normally meant that mother was deceased.
Monica
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Yes --- the family were in Hill St in 1911 although at a different number. You should have received the details of that in a personal message.
Oh my goodness -I hadn't seen that the death details were actually given on Family Search. How brilliant is that. Ignore my message re possible heart attack etc --- I was clearly having one of my many senior moments!
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... I would think Alexander would have listed his next of kin as his father, not his mother in Scotland? Just a thought.
Standard practice to show mother as next of kin on enlistment papers in the UK at that time. Not sure if the same in Canada? If father's details were given as N.O.K., normally meant that mother was deceased.
Monica
How interesting, you would think that you would list your father if he was actually in the same country. They did things so proper back then. :)
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Wow, is that ever sad how he passed away, I wonder what the story is behind it all. If Alexander meant to just come for a visit, or if he meant to actually move here. And why would he leave behind his wife? So sad! But thank-you for solving yet another mystery in my family tree!
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25 G_ _ _ _ _ _ _ Lane, Glasgow.
Garscube Lane.
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Monica, thanks for that info' on the mother being listed as next of kin. Was that still the case in WW2?
Skoosh.
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Not sure, Skoosh, on whether it was the same for WW2. The Armed Forces board here on RC should hopefully help with that info.
Monica
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I never followed up, after some more digging and writing to the Ontario Archives, I received all the records from Alexander from the Hamilton Psychiatric Hospital where he sadly passed away. I was hoping it would answer some questions on why he left Scotland, and solve the mystery behind it all. It did include a photo of him which was pretty neat.
It doesn't say why he left for Canada, it didn't seem like he had a relationship with his boys as they aren't mentioned in the report. It seems he had been struggling with alcoholism for a long time, maybe his wife had asked him to leave.
It seems digging up the past can bring up lots of things, good and bad. Thanks everybody for all your help with this, appreciate it.