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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: sawfish on Monday 04 July 16 20:57 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find parents/ancestors for Charlotte Hellier.
What I know:
Born 15 March 1856, maybe in Llanfoist. I have no source for the birth - the year is approximate and based on later census ages.
1885: Married 24 November in Blaenavon to Griffith Timothy (b. 1855).
1887: Immigration record of her arriving in New York (as Charlotte Timothy)
1891, 1901, 1911: Shows up in Canada Census (living in British Columbia)
1939: Died 21 April 1939 in British Columbia, Canada
So from the point where she was married onwards I have no problem tracing her - but - I cannot seem to find her parents.
Clues I have from looking at the children and Griffith and Charlotte (father is always correct but mother has a variety of names)
Daughter Kate was married in 1930. Mother listed as Charlotte Elliott instead of Charlotte Hellier.
Son Griff Timothy died in 1967. Mother listed as Charlotte Jones
Son William married in 1920. Mother Scharlott Elliotte
Son John married in 1901. Mother Charlotte Hillier
Daughter Florence birth registration shows mom as Charlott Hellier.
I have seen there are a variety of spelling for Hellier (Hillier, Hellyer, etc.) but Charlotte here is showing us as Hellier/Hillier/Elliotte/Jones.
I searched back for these different names/spellings and think I have found her in the 1871 Census.
The 1871 Census for Blaenavon shows a Charlotte Elliott, birthplace Llanfoist, born in 1856 working as a limestone breaker. The census says she is the granddaughter with a Charlotte Phillpot (age 66) as the head of the household.
There are no other Hellier's or anything related living in the household.
Another clue - Charlotte's husband, Griffith Timothy, had a prior marriage where I believe the mother died in childbirth. This left Griffith as a single parent - he shows up on the 1881 census in Llanover living at Shepherds Square (so he would be working at the ironworks).
So that is about what I have.. If I were going to guess I think maybe Charlotte's parents died and that is why she was living with a Phillpot in 1871 - but - I am not sure that really is the right Charlotte, I am just making a semi-educated guess.
I can't find any Hellier's or similar in the right area / right time to be her parents.
The avenue I'm working on now is an Ann Phillpot - 1851 census - living in Shepherd's Square; I am seeing if I can find a link between the Phillpot's and the Hellier's.
If anyone has done work on these people or has some ideas i'd really appreciate it, this one has stumped me for a while!
I have digital copies of the records I've mentioned - just from browsing the forums and reading the help I don't want to post bits and cause a copyright issue.
Thanks,
Darren
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Maybe?
Births, March qtr 1856
Abergavenney Registration District vol 11a, page 56
Hillier, Charlotte
Llanfoist parish comes under the Abergavenny Registration District.
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1885: Married 24 November in Blaenavon to Griffith Timothy (b. 1855).
Do you actually have this certificate - does it say anything under father?
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If you look at the 1851 census(HO 107 2447 133 11) for the Charlotte Philpot you identified in the 1871 census,you will find she has a daughter Margaret Forward,married daughter(married 1846).Then there is an 1853 marriage of Margaret Forward to Job Hillier.They can be found variously mistranscribed in 1861(RG09 3995 51 1),with a daughter Charlotte given born Blaenavon 1856.
Job Hillier dies in 1863.
Regards
Roger
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Thank you, good find. I use Familysearch for my genealogy and there is a birthday of 15 March 1856 (but no source) - this record matches the date already there, so I suspect that probably is the right Charlotte.
The geography makes things a bit more complex too, I may have seen that but didn't see a familiar Blaenavon / Llanfoist so might have gone right past it (I'm in Canada and never been to the UK).
Maybe?
Births, March qtr 1856
Abergavenney Registration District vol 11a, page 56
Hillier, Charlotte
Llanfoist parish comes under the Abergavenny Registration District.
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I just have the basic transcription from
"England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005," database, FamilySearch
It shows Griffith Timothy marrying Charlotte
Abergavenny/Monmouthsire, 1885, Oct-Nov-Dec
It doesn't have any other info.
I also have access to Findmypast and checked there - they do have the actual image but same thing, the only marriage record is the big index list of names, so no other info.
1885: Married 24 November in Blaenavon to Griffith Timothy (b. 1855).
Do you actually have this certificate - does it say anything under father?
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I haven't been able to trace this yet in the 1871 census,but there is a marriage of a Margaret Hellier in 1869 in Abergavenny.Possible tihird marriage for Margaret?
Regards
Roger
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This looks very promising - I'm going to pull up all of these records in a bit and see if these connections pan out, thanks!
If you look at the 1851 census(HO 107 2447 133 11) for the Charlotte Philpot you identified in the 1871 census,you will find she has a daughter Margaret Forward,married daughter(married 1846).Then there is an 1853 marriage of Margaret Forward to Job Hillier.They can be found variously mistranscribed in 1861(RG09 3995 51 1),with a daughter Charlotte given born Blaenavon 1856.
Job Hillier dies in 1863.
Regards
Roger
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Hi Sawfish, If you look on FindMyPast you will find a Baptism for a Charlotte Louisa Hillier in Newport, Monmouthshire, on the 15 May 1853, parents William (Labourer) and Elizabeth, living at Cardiff Road, Newport
Hope this helps, Best wishes Rowley
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Hi Sawfish, If you look on FindMyPast you will find a Baptism for a Charlotte Louisa Hillier in Newport, Monmouthshire, on the 15 May 1853, parents William (Labourer) and Elizabeth, living at Cardiff Road, Newport
Hope this helps, Best wishes Rowley
That could throw a spanner in the works, as if that's her, she can't be the one born LLanfoist.
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Hi Roger - I do believe you have found another marriage for Margaret - between multiple husbands and various spellings of surnames this isn't an easy person to trace! I'm going to post an update in a minute, thanks for the help.
I haven't been able to trace this yet in the 1871 census,but there is a marriage of a Margaret Hellier in 1869 in Abergavenny.Possible tihird marriage for Margaret?
Regards
Roger
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Hi Rowley - I think I have seen this other Charlotte in the same general area - the other apparent Charlotte matches more closely the one i'm looking for - but - I am not discounting this one until I do some solid research to determine who is who.
I suspect at the end I'm only going to end up 95% certain I have the right people here - thanks for looking this up!
Hi Sawfish, If you look on FindMyPast you will find a Baptism for a Charlotte Louisa Hillier in Newport, Monmouthshire, on the 15 May 1853, parents William (Labourer) and Elizabeth, living at Cardiff Road, Newport
Hope this helps, Best wishes Rowley
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Thank you everyone who has helped with my research. I've taken all the suggested bits of information and I have put together a picture I believe to be correct - I am going to have to spend a fair amount of time looking into all of the new names and connections that have turned up to see if I can prove the suspected lineage.
Where I'm at with Charlotte Hellier:
Margaret Phillpott b 1827
Margaret Phillpott m. John Forward, 2nd quarter of 1846 - Abergavenny
1851 Census - Llanover Upper - shows Margaret Forward married and living with her parents - unknown at this time where husband John Forward is. HO107 2447 133 11
Margaret Forward (Phillpott) m. Job Hillier, 3rd quarter of 1853 - Abergavenny
Charlotte Hellier born in 1856.
1861 Census, Llanwenarth Ultra shows (from transcript) Margaret Ellin as wife, Job Ellin as husband - daughter Charlott Ellin age 5. This should be Margaret Phillpot, Job Hellier and daughter Charlotte Hellier. RG09 3995 51 1.
Margaret Hellier (Phillpott) m. Charles Escott, 2nd quarter of 1869 - Abergavenny
Margaret m. James Day in 1870. I haven't found this marriage yet but have solid info:
1871 Census, Llanwenarth Ultra shows Margaret Day b 1827 as wife and James Day b. 1839 as husband - there is a 1 year old Jane Day and four Hellier children listed as step son and daughters. RG10 5314 54 28
1871 Census, Upper Llanover shows Charlotte Elliott (Hellier) as grandaughter living with grandma Charlotte Phillpot. Not sure why Charlotte isn't with the other kids living with mom in Llanwenarth.
1881 Census, Llanwenarth Ultra shows Margaret Day (Phillpot) living with husband James Day, two day children and two Hellier children.
1891 Census, Lower Phillip Street, Llanover shows Margaret Escott (Phillpot) as mother in law with with her daughter Maria and Maria's husband Isaac Jenkins. RG12 4350 56 54.
This is what I've got done so far. Thanks again to everyone for the help - I went from stuck to a plethora of good info, now I am just going to vet the data.
I'd be happy for advice if anyone can tell me a good technique for tracking down complex ancestors (multiple surname changes from marriage or from different spelling / transcriptions). I normally look at census data but I have no idea how I would have tracked the mother without help because she would never show up on the census with a familiar surname.
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I've discovered more information about Margaret and posted on my family history blog at https://birdsofcressingham.wordpress.com/2022/01/07/escotts-got-to-blaenavon-before-clarks/