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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: bucksboy on Saturday 16 July 16 15:25 BST (UK)
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I have posted this on another FH web site, but some other eyes will be a bonus to see if there is anything to be found. ;)
Though not strictly Buckinghamshire, it was where they were last seen, and the father was from Great Missenden, Bucks.
Henry Ives(1822.Gt.Miss) married in 1854 @ St Pancras, to Eleanor Sophia Reynolds, (1833. Strood, Kent).
Henry Ives died in 1870, Eleanor Sophia Ives remarried to a William Hallibone in 1873. Eleanor dies in 1875 in Lambeth.
Eleanor Ives and children last seen in the Eton Union Poorhouse in the 1871 census, @ Upton Cum Chalvey.
Children:
Henry George Ives, b1857. St Pancras. (Baptised @ St Pancras).
Thomas William Ives, b1860. St Pancras. (Baptised @ Camden).
William Peter Ives, b1862. Hatfield, Herts. (Baptised @ Addlestone, Surrey).
Eleanor Mary Ives, b1864. St Pancras. (Baptised @ Addlestone, Surrey).
Sarah Ives, b1869. Eton, Buckinghamshire. ((Baptized 21 Aug 1870,@ Upton Cum Chalvey) Mothers name only)).
Children seem to have been abducted by aliens, or adopted out.
This will be a bit of a treasure hunt, I feel.
Steve. :)
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When did William Hallibone die?
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If I'm correct and William Halliborne died in 1901 in Lambeth (I'm not sure if this is definitely him) then perhaps the children could be living with their stepfather?
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William Hallibone(c1826. Hampton Lucy,Warks), in 1891 census, was in Lambeth Infirmary.
Apparently dies in J/F/M 1901. Lambeth, as far as I've found. Not seen in the 1901 census, so I assume he died before that was taken.
He seems to have bobbed in and out of the Workhouses between those dates.
Not found him in the 1881 census though.
Steve. :)
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Could this be William in 1881?
Name: William SMITH,
Age: 57 (Estimated date of birth: 1824)
Place of birth: Hampton Lucy, Warwickshire
Relation to head: Lodger
Occupation: Agricultural labourer
Marital status: Widower
Others in household: Mary Anderton (Head)
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Never mind, William Smith's also living there with Mary in 1901 ::)
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Never mind, William Smith's also living there with Mary in 1901 ::)
Yes, I had seen that and another William ? ? ? in another census, with similar birth year and p.o.b. but they both ran out of steam, like you've found. :)
1881 census may hold they key for William Hallibone, and maybe the children. But I won't hold my breath on that. ;D
Steve. :)
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Well they must be there somewhere! ;D There are several possibilities as to why we can't find them - perhaps they were recorded under an incorrect name or have been mistranscribed... we'll just have to keep looking.
Betty
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Hi Steve
This doesn't help you find your lost Ives children, in fact it may confuse you more. ??? Were you aware that Mr Hallibone & Ellen Sophia had a son Albert Reynolds Hallibone born 8th Sept 1873 as per at least 2 trees on Ancestry, he is well documented & finishes up in Grimsby but trying to find him in 1881 seemed impossible until I stumbled upon a William IVES aged 55 born Hampton Warwickshire in Lambeth with a "wife" named Maria Ann aged 57 born Lambeth & a son Albert born 1874 also Lambeth. RG11/583/40 page 29. Surely Albert can't be Maria Ann's son & I can't see this William Ives on any other census. I just don't know if this is one big coincidence or what. :-\
Have a look & see what you think.
Maddie
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Hmmm.
1891, Albert Hallibone in Dr Barnardos Youths Labour House. Parish of Limehouse. 'Lad in home'.
1901, in Great Yarmouth, married to Elsie........married in 1895. Great Yarmouth, to Elsie Sutton.
1911, in Grimsby with 5 children.
I'll look at the tree/s, and see if there is anything to glean.
Dr Barnados is interesting.....I wonder if they moved the lost Ives's on.??
Why did William Hallibone take on the surname Ives......we'll never know I suppose.
Thanks Maddie. ;)
Steve. :)
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Barnardo's hold records and there may be a chance that the Ives children are among these.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/what_we_do/our_history/working_with_former_barnardos_children-2013/family_history_service/family_history_service_our_service.htm
They offer a research service but it seems a bit pricey if you ask me ;D but it might be worth having a look...
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I have just sent an enquiry to Dr.Barnado's, to see if it's possible they have a mention of them in their Archives and photo repository.
This also applies to Albert Reynolds Hallibone.
Steve. :)
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Barnardo's hold records and there may be a chance that the Ives children are among these.
http://www.barnardos.org.uk/what_we_do/our_history/working_with_former_barnardos_children-2013/family_history_service/family_history_service_our_service.htm
They offer a research service but it seems a bit pricey if you ask me ;D but it might be worth having a look...
SNAP. ;D
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Good luck, Steve. I hope you find out what happened to them :)
Betty
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The initial enquiry is £15 per person I think. Thereafter the price rockets up. If there is one Ives child there, it is possible there are more.
I can stand the £15, but not for all of them. A total cost would be roughly, £85 each child if I read it right. :o
So that would be a maximum of around £450. :o :o :o
I'll see what happens when they reply.
Steve. :)
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Maybe of interest
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=230229.0
I think if children with Barnardos or workhouse they would be enumerated in census but maybe only by initials, possible surname maybe pob marked unknown in some cases.
Doesn't help, but just a thought.
Cas
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Might it be worth contacting the Centre for Bucks Studies in Aylesbury Steve as they appear to have the Guardians Minute Books for Eton Workhouse which might give you some idea of where Eleanor & the children went when they left. They certainly are a puzzle. :-\
Maddie
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Thanks Maddie, but already done that. Usually my first port of call for such things. ;D
I think I've found one of the sons........Thomas William Ives seems to have married a Sarah Livesey, in St Peters, Liverpool, in 1894. Fathers name is given as Henry George Ives. Maybe his mistake, or just his brothers name......or it's not him.
It's a transcript of the marriage, and on looking for the original marriage entry, it seems there is a gap from 1844 to 1907 for the St Peters Church registers. ???
But a lot of the census details add up quite nicely, and his absence on some of them are possibly answered by him being a Merchant Seaman. ;)
I've entered all that in my tree, and if it does not pan out, I'll delete it.
Thanks again.
Steve. :)
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I did think you had probably contacted Bucks CC but just thought I would mention it. :) Now that Thomas William in Liverpool is looking very good, well done, so if he joined the Merchant Navy did his brother Henry George also do the same. Ummm.
Out of interest do you know where Henry Snr. died, I see you have his death c1870 but I haven't been able to find it, a senior moment perhaps. ;D
Maddie
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Hi Maddie.
His death is a bit of a calculated, reasoned guess really, as the only one I could find that made sense, was one for Henry AVES, abt 1823. A/M/J-1870. R.D.Southwark.
I did a search for the children, but came up with nothing.
I contacted the Families of British Homes - British Home Child Group International on faceboook, which I think is for the search for Children sent to Canada, for child labour. None of my lost Ives children in their files. Very good site, indeed. :)
Obviously they are somewhere to be found, and perhaps I'm missing the obvious. But so far drawn nothing......YET. ;)
Steve. :)
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Hi Steve
Pleased to hear you were able to get info from the British Home Child site, at least you don't need to search any more in that region.
I don't think that Henry Aves death in 1870 is your man as there is a probate record for who I believe is him on Ancestry. Died 24th April at St Thomas Hospital Newington, late of Larkhall Lane Clapham, (oh boy that place bugs me, I had an ancestor die in the cop shop in Larkhall Lane. ;D) Henry Aves Will was proved by his brother Thomas who was an Omnibus Driver. :-\ The only death I could see for a Henry Ives was June qtr 1866 Islington aged 43 but if that is him then who was Sarah's dad. :)
Hey ho, keep looking. :D
Maddie
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Yes, the death was in 'pencil', as most of this Ives mob seems to be. ;D
Sarah Ives -1869, was the reason for the death of 1870 for her father really.
The baptism from my BucksFHS Ives baptisms PDF, just shows mothers name. (21 Aug 1870 Sarah, child of Elenor IVES of Eton Union). not father deceased, so I did assume, rightly or wrongly, that as he was dead that he didn't need to be named. It's happened before with others, that have entered the Workhouse without being baptised, then paid for by the Union.
I suppose the only way with Sarah, is the birth cert really, but funds don't allow.
Yep...the search goes on. ;D
Steve. :)
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There's a marriage for an Eleanor Mary Ives in 1894 (St Olave vol 1d page 398) - possible candidates are the wonderfully named Knot Sheldron Bell or Alfred Edmund Chinn.
1901 census has a Knott S Bell with wife Eleanor M, gives her DOB as 1871 and POB as Rotherhithe.
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There's a marriage for an Eleanor Mary Ives in 1894 (St Olave vol 1d page 398) - possible candidates are the wonderfully named Knot Sheldron Bell or Alfred Edmund Chinn.
1901 census has a Knott S Bell with wife Eleanor M, gives her DOB as 1871 and POB as Rotherhithe.
She appears to be daughter of John & Emily Ives. Baptised, 29 Sept.1871 @ Rotherhithe. Born, 4 May 1871. Although her registration seems to be missing on Ancestry, I think it appears on FS, as Ellen Mary Ives, O/N/D - 1871. Pancras, London. ???
Although, finding her before 1901 is not good, but appears in 1911, born HITHE.(Rotherhithe on original image). ::)
I had earmarked that one you found, but was never convinced about it. ;D
Thanks very much for looking.
Steve. :)
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No problem Steve, wish we could get you closer to finding them :(
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No problem Steve, wish we could get you closer to finding them :(
Yep, just have to see what pops up, if anything. But stranger things have happened. :)
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Thought I would try a different angle and looked for deaths. These 2 could be possiblities
William P IVES b1858 died Northampton 1916
Thomas W IVES b1860 died Southwark 1923
might be easier to go backwards
Jenny
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Thought I would try a different angle and looked for deaths. These 2 could be possiblities
William P IVES b1858 died Northampton 1916
Thomas W IVES b1860 died Southwark 1923
might be easier to go backwards
Jenny
Thanks Jenny. :)
I'll have look over the weekend, as my internet access is playing up at the mo. ::)
Steve. :)
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That William P. Ives, is William Page IVES, born c1855. Northampton. Son of William Ives, & Elizabeth Humphrey Ives. So we can count him out. :(
Thomas W Ives, however, is a different story....possibly. ;D
The last time I could see my Thomas William Ives, was in 1891 census, as a marine seaman, born Lambeth, and living in Liverpool.
The one you suggested, as follows.....
1901 census, gives his pob as Camden Town, and Living in Liverpool, as a static engine driver. Unmarried. b.1861.
1911 census, gives his pob as Camden, and a static engine driver, but now living in West Ham, London, a Widower. b.1861.
I have his death penciled in as 1923. Southwark.
His wife Sarah Ives(nee.Livsey. c1854.Preston, Lancs), is on her own in Liverpool in 1901.
1911, she appears to be an Inmate @ Walton Hill, West Derby, and married 25 years and 5 children.
I think this is my man. ;D
He went off for work, or he abandoned her and the kids, I don't know. She dies in 1936 In Liverpool.
I have his pob as Pancras......a skip away from Camden Town.
I'll need to check a few more bits and pieces for him, just confirm if this is he. But it does seem to add up.
Thanks Jenny. :)
Steve. :)
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Just found this post. Thomas William Ives 1860 - 1923 was my G GF. He married Sarah Livesey on 15th August 1884 in Liverpool. He was a mariner. They had 6 children: Eleanor, William, Herbert, Florence, Thomas and May. Anyone wants more details, please get back to me. Alyson.