RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Carrter on Saturday 23 July 16 15:17 BST (UK)
-
Searching for birth Patrick McGlame or Fleming BORN ABT.1823 MARRIED 1842 parish Ramoan Bally castle surname McGlame children all baptised McGlame although one of his children Ellen at time of marriage name given is Ellen McGlame or Fleming while searching for his son Hugh Glasgow discovered his marriage cert. states surname Hugh Fleming and his parents also Fleming. Over the years he reverts to Hugh Fleming McGlame. Very confused trying to find out why the change.
-
Ramoan Parish registers start 1838- http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0388
You could try neighbouring parishes but it may be that no records for a baptism exist.
Earlier topic-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=752512.9
-
Thank you Aghadowey can you advise of any other sites besides the parish registers that may contain a birth date for Patrick Fleming. I have already checked parish registers. I would be very grateful. :)
-
A baptism record is probably the only place you would get an approximate date of birth (usually date of baptism not birth will be listed).
-
Aww disappointed :( Looks like I've come to the end of my paternal tree but thank you Aghadowey for your help, Since joining rootschat in such a short time I have been able to fill in important gaps, that I have struggled with for several years. Due to name change.
Cheers :)
-
Don’t give up just yet, you have your family tree information but we don’t know your sources or coverage so at the risk of duplicating.
Your name is really rare and appears to have variants
McGlame, McGlamery, McGlamry, McGleam, McGleme
just like ffleming, fflemming fleming, flemming, which I leave to last with little to add
I found all sorts of possibilities to connect
1660’s Hearth money rolls of Ulster see http://www.billmacafee.com
the headings
Record No. No. in Barony List County Barony Parish Townland (Modern Spelling) Townland as spelt in Hearth Money Rolls Forename as spelt in Hearth Money Rolls Surname as spelt in Hearth Money Rolls Surname [Standardised]
10599 792 Antrim Toome Lower Portglenone Aughnahoy Aghnehey And[rew] McGlamery McGlamery
12201 960 Antrim Antrim Upper Nilteen Grange Dunadry Dunethery James McGlamry McGlamery
The Ulster Historical Foundation www.ancestryireland.com has all these McGleam and McGleme to add to their list of McGlame bmd which I wont reproduce here
http://www.ancestryireland.com birthsbaptisms
Sally Anne McGleme father Neal Antrim
George McGleme father Neal Antrim
John McGleme father Neal Antrim
Robert McGleme father Neal Antrim
Margaret McGleme 1851 father Patrick Antrim
Robert McGleme 1854 father Patrick Antrim
Ellen McGleme 1856 father Patrick Antrim perhaps you Ellen
Patrick McGleme 1858 father Patrick Antrim
Hugh McGleme 1860 father Patrick Antrim
Sarah McGleme 1864 father Patrick Antrim
Robert McGleme 1874 father Robert Antrim
http://www.ancestryireland.comMarriages
Elizabeth McGleme 1858 Antrim
Mary McGleme 1860 Antrim
http://www.ancestryireland.com birthsbaptisms
Neal McGleam 1817 father Neal Antrim
Jane McGleam 1820 father Neal Antrim
Mary McGleam 1822 father Neal Antrim
Margaret McGleam 1824 father Neal Antrim
Martha McGleam 1825 father Neal Antrim
John McGleam 1844 father Patrick Antrim
http://www.ancestryireland.comMarriages
Patrick McGleam 1842 father Antrim perhaps yours
Rose McGleam 1842 father Antrim
Jane McGleam 1843 father Antrim
Mary Jane McGleam 1868 father Patrick Antrim
Genes Reunited http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk show three tree holders of interest Caroline Jessi and probably Lisa. of particular interest is
Hugh McGlame 1909 Partick Glasgow Scot... No Caroline
Hugh McGlame 1885 County Antrim Northe... No Caroline
Mary Jane McGlame 1869 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Catherine McGlame 1868 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Hugh McGlame 1865 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Sarah McGlame 1864 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Sarah McGlame 1864 ... No Jessi
Hugh McGlame 1860 ... No Jessi
Patrick McGlame 1858 ... No Jessi
Ellen McGlame 1855 ... No Jessi
Robert McGlame 1854 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Robert McGlame 1854 ... No Jessi
George McGlamery 1853... No Lisa
Margaret McGlame 1851 ... No Jessi
Catherine McGlame 1848 ... No Jessi
Mary Jane McGlame 1846 ... No Caroline
Mary McGlame 1846 ... No Jessi
Elizabeth McGlame 1842 Ballycastle Co. Antr... No Jessi
Patrick McGlame 1830 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
John McGlame 1800 Carnmoon, Ireland ... No Jessi
other spellings found
Robert McGleam 1874 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Notes You wont be able to contact the tree owners until you become a member., or perhaps you are
one of them already. The 1800 Carnmoon reference is almost definitely to the townland of that name in Ballycastle administration zone and Ramoan civil parish. Other Carnmoon exist eg in Billy parish and one in Co Down.
So within the limitations of just these records your Patrick’s father could be a John or Neal
endof pt1
-
pt 2
Its easy to speculate on changes of names. Introducing a benevolent landlords name/ national hero, local hero, or a wifes name all seem to have happened. another is someone changed their religious denomination to the ire of the older family, or a younger brother in a catholic family by becoming a protestant acquired the land. I checked irish saint names in case introduced at christening or confirmation without success.
studying the irish census 1901 and 1911 one finds all the likely McGlame are catholics with exceptions eg the interpretation of irish church is apparently used for Church of Ireland.
1901 3 in Moneygobbin (Enagh, Antrim) Ballymoney civil parish
McGlame John b~1841 60 Male Head of Family Irish Church Co Antrim Surface Man Read - Married -Mary XXXXXX b~1841 60 Female Wife Irish Church Co Antrim
children
Mc Glame George b~1871 30 Male Son Irish Church Co Antrim Farm Labourer Read and write - Not Married -
1911 census 8 in Seacon More (Seacon, Antrim) Ballymoney civil parish
McGlame George b~1864 Church of Ireland Antrim Agricultural Labourer m~1902
Martha XXXXX 40 Church of Ireland had 2 elderly boarders Mary Wright a Widow , Margaret Young
then I found I had missed a census entry
1901 3 in Carnmoon (Ramoan, Antrim) see 1911 census McGlame14 in Gortconny (Ramoan, Antrim)
Mc Gleam Robert 47 Roman Catholic Co Antrim Carpenter m Catherine XXXXX 50 Roman Catholic Co Antrim - children
Mc Gleam Robert 26 Roman Catholic Co Antrim Carpenter
Mc Gleam William 17 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Antrim Butcher
Mc Gleam Francis 15 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Antrim Scholar
Mc Gleam James 11 Roman Catholic Co Antrim Scholar
Long Rosetta 53 Female Visitor Roman Catholic Co Antrim Dressmaker Read and write - Not Married -
an incomplete record filed by parish only exists for 1824-1837 The Tithes Applotment books
eg http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/derrykeighan-
parish.php#.V5XA61eoc5Q
McGleme, Danl. Townland: Chathamhall Year: 1827
eg http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/ramoan-parish.php#.V5UD9Veoc5Q http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/ramoan-parish.php#.V5UD9Veoc5Q
has no Fleming or mcglame 1833
I remain stumped by no records appearing in griffiths valuation using askaboutireland. my favourite quick index that adds variant spelling is not searchable today ie http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths.php or they are under fleming perhaps.
goodluck
-
Hi BallaltikilliganG I am in awe :o at the amount of information you have given. I was so perturbed at with the paternal side of family because I was kept hitting a brick wall. I had searched on ancestry later Genes Reunited and Scotland's People. Giving up and concentrating on my Husbands fathers side of the family but since discovering rootschat recently solved the name change. I found Patrick 1842 and his children on the Parish register Ramoan Ballycastle. I am now elated at the thought I can go back further. Please can you advise if I should resign up to Ancestry Ireland first or the Ulster Historic Foundation.
Thank you ;D ;D
-
Hello, my 3rd great-grandmother is Elizabeth McGlame/Fleming, depending on which of her children's birth records I look at. Fleming on my 2nd great-grandmother's record. I thought, perhaps, she'd been married before, but today I found her birth record as McGlame and couldn't read the address. When I searched for the address, I found some UK based trees with a sibling known as Hugh Fleming McGlame. I've sent a message asking if the owner of the tree knows where Fleming comes from. I haven't been able to find anything father than Patrick and Jane Rodgers, the parents. Perhaps Fleming was the maternal line for Patrick? But I find it odd that there are others that flip flopped between McGlame and Fleming.
Have you found anything more on this since your original posts?
-
is this coincidence, welcome jessi, i wonder if you are mentioned below under Genes Reunited below
Carrter
I spotted I never replied to yours of 25 July 2016, my apologies. So I turn the ;D ;D on myself
if you did proceed well on ye. if you didn’t get much help
I have searched again
my advice now would be join Genes Reunited
I remain stumped by no records appearing in griffiths valuation using askaboutireland.
other than
1861 by searching for occupants in Carnmoon
MCGLANE JOHN ANTRIM RAMOAN map ref 2b house and small garden
I also tried tithes in Ramoan civil parish county see http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/antrim/tithe-applotments/ramoan-parish.php#.WqD6wmacapg
and found nothing, I widened that to the County
McGleme, Danl.-Townland: Chathamhall Year: 1827-Derrykeighan-Antrim that’s two parishes away
McGleme, Danl.-Townland: Chathamhall Year: 1827-Donegore –Antrim that’s nine parishes away
Genes Reunited has a
John McGlame 1800 Carnmoon, Ireland ... No Jessi
I went back to it and realized I had not searched it thoroughly it is also difficult understanding their next line entry containing ... on its own so below the first two entries extracted, I have left all the entries but have placed a line throughall McGlamery spelling the older entries include 11 names listed under Ballycastle
Mary Jane McGlame 1869 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Catherine McGlame 1868 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Luatta McGlamery 1868 ... No Lisa
Mary McGlamery 1866 ... No Lisa
Jesse McGlamery 1865 ... No Lisa
Hugh McGlame 1865 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Sarah McGlame 1864 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Sarah McGlame 1864 ... No Jessi
Dianah McGlamery 1864 ... No Lisa
Andrew McGlamery 1863 ... No Lisa
Jonathan McGlamery 1862 ... No Lisa
Hugh McGlame 1860 ... No Jessi
Patrick McGlame 1858 ... No Jessi
Alice McGlamery 1858 Tennessee Usa ... No David
George McGlamery 1858 ... No Lisa
Martha McGlamery 1856 ... No Lisa
Martha McGlamery 1856 ... No Blake
Jacob McGlamery 1855 ... No Lisa
Ellen McGlame 1855 ... No Jessi
Robert McGlame 1854 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Robert McGlame 1854 ... No Jessi
George McGlamery 1853 ... No Lisa
Margaret McGlame 1851 ... No Jessi
Lemuel McGlamery 1850 North Wilkesboro,Wil... No Lisa
Catherine McGlame 1848 ... No Jessi
Mary McGlame 1846 ... No Jessi
Mary Jane McGlame 1846 ... No Caroline
James McGlamery 1846 ... No Lisa
John McGlame 1844 ... No Jessi
Elizabeth McGlame 1842 Ballycastle Co. Antr... No Jessi
Patrick McGlame 1830 Ballycastle County A... No Caroline
Patrick McGlame 1828 ... No Jessi
so I hope you join and make contact with Jessi and Caroline the tree holders, unless you are one of these yourself
-
if you dont knowwhere Carnmoon is
Carnmoon townland appears to have had a little village/settlement called Carnmoon 2b is on the north side visible in this map about 1861, http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/single_layer/i8.php?lat=&longt=&dum=0&sheet=4&mysession=2587896773184&info=&place=&county=Antrim&placename=%3Cb%3ECarnmoon%3C/b%3E&parish=Ramoan&country=Ireland&union=&barony=Cary
heres a modern street scene marked Carnmoon 65/67
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.2150833,-6.2839669,3a,75y,169.21h,63.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss6Bg1l3VY-sBM0oTyyzwEQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
its in the area of 67 Whitepark Road
have fun
if you know more townlands associated i will look them up
church records exist go to PRONI open welcome window top thcorner type in church records download the small list and look under ramoan and ballycastle
thenmost will be in microfilm unless available thro a mormon church
good luck
-
That's me...I tried to contact someone else who has McGlame/Fleming contradictions. I haven't heard back yet. I imagine Fleming is a surname beyond their parents, but it's odd that they use it seemingly randomly. Elizabeth used McGlame on several birth records for her children, but she used Fleming on a few-including on my 2nd great-grandmother's.
-
I was given help by a moderator on Rootschat who discovered birth and marriage of my Grandfather and Great Grandfather under the name of Fleming. What I have been told is that around that time Irish would have been widely spoken and Fleming in Irish is spelt Fhleamain and pronounced Mc Glamen...