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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Frosty on Saturday 23 July 16 16:25 BST (UK)
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Hello - I have a photograph of (who I think) is my great grandfather, William Severn b. 1877 in Stavely. I had no idea he was affiliated to any service, but he seems to be wearing a uniform here with his grandmother. Can anyone identify the uniform, please?
Any help much appreciated,
Frosty
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Sorry, realised that you can't see the insignia on the sleeve in the pic I posted, so here it is:
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Hi, what I can tell you is that he appears to have a "Wound Stripe" and he's definitely wearing the sleeve patch of a "Lewis Gunner"
Hope that helps a little.
Frank.
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Wow, that was quick - thank you, Frank - I wondered what the stripe meant.
Frosty
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Hi, just coming back in with a couple of observations :) , your man was born in 1877, this would make him 37 years old at the outbreak of the war, he looks to be wearing a tunic which was changed in 1916 to one without pleats on the breast pockets so he presumably enlisted before 1916.
Also I don't know which,if any, British Regiments wore the Kilt so am wondering why a Lancashire lad would join a Scottish regiment, tho' I suppose it's totally feasible, and finally how old do you think he would be in the photograph.
Sorry to waffle on, I'm sure one of the experts will be along soon to put all of the answers forward :)
Regards
Frank.
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Does. Anyone recognise which tartan it is please?
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Also I don't know which,if any, British Regiments wore the Kilt so am wondering why a Lancashire lad would join a Scottish regiment, tho' I suppose it's totally feasible, and finally how old do you think he would be in the
Regards
Frank.
War time you were sent to wherever men were most needed.
Just a guess, Gordon Highlanders could be a possibility.
Jebber
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Does. Anyone recognise which tartan it is please?
Still looking ;D
Frank.
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Just a guess, Gordon Highlanders could be a possibility.
Jebber
That shoulder title could possibly say "Gordons" :-\
Frank.
EDITED TO ADD:- It could also say "Cameron"
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Thank you for your replies. Was thinking that it would be around 1907 from the costumes in the rest of the picture, and Will (if it's him) has a few wrinkles around his eyes, so I was thinking he would be around 30.
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Gordon Highlanders Tartan :)
Frank.
https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/5911043235102565/
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Thanks, Frank - I was wondering about the Boer War?
Frosty
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It is possible it could be Seaforth Highlanders kilt, McKenzie tartan was also worn by HLI, Gordon Highlanders is very similar in appearance and black and white pics don't help the researcher, the shoulder title could well say Seaforth or Gordons, though HLI it isn't.
The Lewis gun was invented in the USA in1911 and came into general use in British army in 1914
Cameron Highlanders tartan Cameron of Erracht has a smaller pattern than shown in the pic ,
Great pic
James
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It's WW1 wound stripes issued after 1916....with overseas service he should have medal index card but can't see one to that name in a kilted Scots Regiment .Did William have any brothers it maybe it's one of them?
Ady
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Just to muddy the waters, the King's Liverpool Regiment (10th bn. Cameron Highlanders) wore the Clan Forbes tartan the design of which is not unlike the Seaforths and Gordons and they also wore the "CAMERON" shoulder title, so also possible candidate.
James
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Gordon Highlanders Tartan :)
Frank.
https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/5911043235102565/
Like this one Frank?
https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/370280400592478449/
(but socks are different) :)
I love your photo Frosty. Looks like he was coaxed to pose with his proud gran outside the house - kilt is creased and he looks generally a bit 'underdressed'. Wonderful!
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Wound stripes were worn from late 1916. When they also had sufficient material to return pleats to the breast pockets. So late WW1
My guess is that he is not who you think he is.
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Like this one Frank?
https://uk.pinterest.com/pin/370280400592478449/
(but socks are different) :) .............................................................
That definitely looks to be a good match ;)
Frank.
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Looks like mother and son to me, the eyes have it!
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Thank you for your replies, James, Ady, Ruskie, km1971, Frank, Jebber and purlin - all very interesting.
Am now thinking that this was not my ggrandfather, but his nephew, Jack Flecknell, b. 1900, who looked very like him as a younger man. In another photo, he is standing with who I now think is his brother, Reginald C Flecknell, b. 1888, both in Bolsover, in the same uniform. The woman holding his arm is Mary Emma Severn, his mother (not his sister, as would have been the case with William). As Purlin says, the light eyes are very distinctive, and my grandfather looked very similar to the old lady - without the hair, her face could have been his. I'm now thinking that she is possibly William's grandmother, Mary Anne Severn (though other pics I have of her seem different, can't find anyone else who it could be). Mary Anne was born in 1846, and lived to be 92.
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Sorry - I meant William's mother (my grandfather was also William)!
Frosty
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James (Macintosh)
Liverpool Scottish were still 10th Battalion, The King's (Liverpool Regiment) in WW1 and were not affiliated to the Camerons until some time between the wars. The Forbes tartan has a white stripe which would show up in a b/w photo.
A
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There was a William H Flecknell in the Seaforth Highlanders (S/6149). There's a grandson of that name, born Staveley circa 1893, with a Severn family in Bolsover in 1901.
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Hi Shaun - yes, William Flecknell was married to another Severn Sister, Annie Severn (three Severn sisters married three Flecknell brothers)! Didn't know he was in the Seaforth Highlanders - so there's our link. Thanks for pointing out William Henry, who was with the Severns in 1901 - I've just found out that he was the son of Mary Emma and Henry Flecknell, born in 1892 - so in 1916 he would have been 24, and his older brother Reginald would have been 28, so more of a match for the apparent ages of the soldiers. Since it's Mary Emma in the photograph (you can only see her hands here clasping her son's arm - but the photo is bigger than this), then I think we may have solved the riddle of who our boys are - thank you!
Frosty
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There was a William H Flecknell in the Seaforth Highlanders (S/6149). There's a grandson of that name, born Staveley circa 1893, with a Severn family in Bolsover in 1901.
Nice find ShaunJ :)
Frank.
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Good evening,
It is the Black Watch or government tartan. The Gordons wear it with a pale yellow stripe added as the Gordons had no official tartan of their own.
The Seaforths also wear it but made in a slightly paler colour with white stripe added and call it the MacKenzie tartan.
Both regts wear a curved shoulder title which only differ by one or two letters. Depends on whether the "S" is on Gordons. They come in both variations.
John915
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I'll stick my neck out ;D , had a bit of a play around with the photograph, I think the shoulder title says Seaforth.
(Is that a letter "A" visible near the front of the title? )
Frank.
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Good detective work, Frank! :o I agree - I think I see the A and the F. The Seaforths are fairly likely, perhaps, as the Flecknell boys' uncle was definitely with that regt.
Very happy with all responses,
;D Frosty
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Are you sure this is Jack and Reginald Flecknell in uniform? Is this Jack Sisil Croft Flecknell? If so, there is a record of his service but it is with the Royal Navy and not an Army unit. It is in the UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seaman’s Services, 1848-1939 provided by Ancestry. Do you know the other people in the photo? I am interested as I believe we are related through Jack Flecknell.
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Hi CAN150 - thank you for your msg. Not totally sure about any of them apart from Mary Anne Flecknell, whom I have seen in another photo. However, it seems that the tartan uniform was worn by army rather than navy members? Mary Anne Flecknell nee Severn was my gfather's g aunt.
Frosty