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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: noland01 on Monday 01 August 16 13:21 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Looking for a little help with a part of my family tree that has been a dead end for a long time.
Never had any luck with this particular part of my family history and was wondering if anyone more familar with Australian records/resources might be willing to take a look and help.
Have very little re. the person I am looking for,basically a name ,approximate age and a vague location.Not much to go on I know !!!!
Bit that I do know;
Margaret Mullins(Mullen) left Ireland for Australia and as far as I am aware never returned.She was a sister to my great grandmother who was born approx 1852 going by her marriage date(1872) age given on 1901 Irish census (49) and 1911 Irish census (66) and death cert from 1920 (68?)
According to family lore Margaret emigrated at a young age,lived in Brisbane and never married.Have a photo here that she sent back to Ireland to her nieces (not dated) and according to the stamp was taken at Ada Driver Studio Brisbane.
It shows a middle aged woman of about 60 or so.Going by her sisters approx. age she could have been born anywhere from 1840 to 1860 or so.
Problem is that I have no idea where in Ireland the sisters came from or their parents names.My great gran married in Carlow, Ireland but her marriage entry gives no address or parents names and all children she had baptised include no Mullen/Mullins as a sponsor.
Only remotely plausible record hits come for a Mullins family in Waterford Ireland but these are of no great help to be honest.
Basically hoping someone might have a look at Australian records or maybe immigration records as I have had no luck here in Ireland.
Have a couple of threads on here in the Ireland forum previously regarding the same family;
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,641070.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=654630.msg5008545#msg5008545
Thanks for looking and if this is in the wrong section then please can mods. move.
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Just a very quick search:
There are 3 Margaret Mullen into QLD, but only the two other are possibly part of a family:
MULLEN Margaret 28 Dorunda 10 Mar 1885 74 18482 Z1962 M1701
Then there a quite a few of these: MULLEN Miss Matron with ages 35 and over.
Only 2 QLD deaths up to 1950:
1889 B22533 Margaret Mullen Hugh Mullen Margaret - ** born Ireland aged 62 years - too old
1900 C1231 Margaret Mary Mullins father Michael Mullins mother Hanorah Ryan
1929 C230 Margaret Mary Mullins father Patrick Mullins mother Jane Agnes Gregory
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Only 2 QLD deaths up to 1950:
1889 B22533 Margaret Mullen Hugh Mullen Margaret - ** born Ireland aged 62 years - too old
1900 C1231 Margaret Mary Mullins father Michael Mullins mother Hanorah Ryan
1929 C230 Margaret Mary Mullins father Patrick Mullins mother Jane Agnes Gregory
The one in 1929 was an infant
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/40653937
The second one might be too early?
The earliest mention I can see of the Ada Driver Studio is 1905.
Debra :)
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There's someone on the Net claiming they have a photo by said photographer 'pre 1900'.
Jamjar
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Thanks for the replies.
Bit frustrating when I am unable to even pin down what part of Ireland the Mullins(Mullen) family came from.
No hints with her sisters marriage and have had no luck trawling through Irish baptismal records.
Margaret's nephews and nieces were named ;John,Patrick,James,Michael,Timothy,Mary,Margaret,Anne,Ellen in birth order so no help there as these are very common names of the time.John ,Timothy ,Mary and Anne being named (I assume) after people in their fathers family and Margaret after her elusive aunt and Ellen after her equally elusive mother.
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....her marriage entry gives no address or parents names
This is very unusual for a post civil reg marriage. Is the column headed "Father's name and surname" blank for both the groom and bride or just the bride?
Debra :)
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The second death listed was also an infant - there is a birth reg in 1900 with the same parents named.
Debra :)
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This editorial about the Ada Driver Photographic Studio suggests a more expensive and superior style of product. An interesting choice for a lady living alone
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/rendition/nla.news-article19396492.3.html?followup=4a3e14741ffe41487b27d95c173033d0
There is a woman named Margaret MULLEN on the Electoral Roll in North Brisbane and Leichardt district from 1905 to about 1929.
She is not listed with anyone else of the surname at any of her addresses and is noted as performing Domestic Duties.
From 1909 onwards her address is at hotels
1905 MULLEN, Margaret
119 (or 449)? Wickham Tce, North Brisbane. EDIT 449 is correct as verified by a later search
DD
1909
Spotsman Hotel, Leichardt,
DD
1915
City View Hotel Nth Brisbane
DD
1921.
As Above
1929
Sportsman Hotel, Leichardt
DD
Sue
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Have a look at this site, maybe you might find something
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/Indexes/Immigration/Pages/Immigration1848.aspx
Cass
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Have a look at this site, maybe you might find something
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/Indexes/Immigration/Pages/Immigration1848.aspx
Cass
Cass, I believe that is where I found the Mullens in my initial post.
Jamjar.
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....her marriage entry gives no address or parents names
This is very unusual for a post civil reg marriage. Is the column headed "Father's name and surname" blank for both the groom and bride or just the bride?
Debra :)
Both are blank.Also all the sponsors listed for her sisters family in the baptismal register are from the husbands side.
To be honest have drawn a blank on Ellen Mullins (my great gran) and as the only family I am aware of was her sister Margaret was hoping maybe she left some trace in Australian records.That side of my family has more or less disappeared from the local area and any thing I know of them are just stories my deceased aunt told me years ago.
Regarding the photo,it had pride of place in Margaret's niece's house for many years but like everything,nobody asked about these things at the time.Could be she got it taken when she retired from work?It is in the usual postcard format of the time but other than the studio stamp it has no date or postage marks so would assume it was sent enclosed with a letter.
Have my gran's diary and it runs from about 1905 to 1925.She mentions things like having masses said for various relatives and lists of birthdays and annervererseries etc but no mention of her aunt Margaret so maybe she lived to a ripe old age in Australia.
Thanks for the help and the links.Will look through them as soon as I can.
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Just following on from Sue's post about the Margaret at the City View Hotel. I know this doesn't quite gel with what you know, but she is the only spinster I can see with that name and this family might be worth looking at further.
She arrived in 1873 aged 10 with her parents John and Margaret, both aged 39, and siblings Charles, 15, Mary Ann, 13, Peter, 7, and Joseph, 4.
You can see them here on the Great Queensland (PDF page 17)
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/ImmigrationIndexes/Documents/Great_Queensland_1873_QSA_Item_ID_18476.pdf
Some are buried together at Toowong:
https://graves.brisbane.qld.gov.au/
Search for Margaret MULLEN died 1955 click on 'Details' and see her parents, brother Charles and sister Mary Ann WHITE and Mary Ann's husband Thomas. I believe Thomas was the licensee of the City View Hotel and then Mary Ann after his death in 1918.
I thought it was interesting that they emigrated the year after Ellen married and were just old enough to have a child in 1852. There is always the possibility that Ellen was Margaret's daughter but not John's?
Debra :)
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1889 B22533 Margaret Mullen Hugh Mullen Margaret - ** born Ireland aged 62 years - too old
This death is Margaret's mother. Note she is seven years older than stated on arrival. John is three years older when he died.
Queensland BDMs are free to search online.
https://www.qld.gov.au/law/births-deaths-marriages-and-divorces/family-history-research/
Debra :)
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There is a woman named Margaret MULLEN on the Electoral Roll in North Brisbane and Leichardt district from 1905 to about 1929.
1929
Sportsman Hotel, Leichardt
DD
Sue
....and Mary Ann WHITE is the Licensee at the Sportsman's Hotel in 1929.
Debra :)
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There are a number of family trees on Ancestry for the various branches of this family and I finally had a win ;D with one uploading the marriage cert for Charles MULLEN who married Clara CORCORAN at St Stephen's Cathedral, Brisbane, in 1883. He gives his place of birth as Cookstown, Co. Tyrone.
This cert and all the other entries related to the family give Margaret's maiden surname as [variations of] MULLEN.
Debra :)
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Do you have witnesses names on the marriage certificate for your great grandmother please?
Is it possible that Aunt Margaret MULLEN in Queensland is a sister-in-law of your great grandmother, rather than a sister?
Can you scan the postcard and post to this site - someone might be able to spot something useful on it?
Are the MULLENS family Catholic Irish?
Who did your MULLENS great grandmother marry.?
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The line of search on this Margaret MULLENS is beginning to look encouraging.
It makes sense that an expensive photo could probably not be afforded by a woman who did not have an occupation listed on the E Rolls.
There was no occupation other than Domestic Duties on any of the Margaret's registrations. This is not to be confused with the occupation of house-maid or housekeeper in the employed sense. It means she "kept house at home"
Without support (usually male) an enemployed woman would be struggling to survive in those times.
Sue
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In 1905 the Electoral Roll shows-
Thomas WHITE licenced victualler
Mary WHITE
449 Wickham Terrace Nth Brisbane.
So, with Margaret MULLEN ;D
Sue
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An accidental click of a button. Deleted ::)
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When John MULLEN died in 1898, his daughter Margaret MULLEN applied for letters of administration through Queensland Trustees.
She is described as his lawful daughter and a spinster.
John was a quarryman of Kangaroo Point.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/3670757
Sue
ADDING
The death certificate of John MULLEN can be downloaded directly after online payment.
Australian certificates are very in formative and if the the required information is known to the informant, many questions may be answered.
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/queryEntry.m?type=births
This is the information you may see
DEATH
Name
Date
Death place
Age
Occupation
Cause of death
Parents' names
Spouse names
Marriage details
children's names
No of children
Birthplace
Alternatively, you could get the death certificate of his wife Margaret.
Hopefully one or the other of them will list your great grandmother's name as a child of the marriage.
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Do you have witnesses names on the marriage certificate for your great grandmother please?
Is it possible that Aunt Margaret MULLEN in Queensland is a sister-in-law of your great grandmother, rather than a sister?
Can you scan the postcard and post to this site - someone might be able to spot something useful on it?
Are the MULLENS family Catholic Irish?
Who did your MULLENS great grandmother marry.?
There is another thread with more information about Ellen. They were Catholic and she married Timothy BYRNE in 1872.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=641070.0
Denis, do you have Ellen's marriage certificate from the Registry? The parish register provides just basic information, usually just two lines, but after 1864 this is what an official marriage cert looks like:
http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/image-files/santry-santrymarriagelge.jpg
The cert volume/page details for Timothy and Ellen:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYSW-MPD
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYSM-NM5
Debra :)
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I think I have found the marriage of John and Margaret as well as the baptism for Charles at Desertcreight/Cookstown in Co. Tyrone.
Marriage 27 Nov 1854
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632533#page/117/mode/1up
Baptism 23 Sep 1855
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632533#page/117/mode/1up
This makes him 18 when they emigrated, not 15, so I am not sure if it is them. Some fibbed about the children's ages to get a cheaper fare. He said he was 26 in April 1883.
For Ellen to belong to this family she would have to be born before the marriage. I haven't been able to find indexed baptisms for any of the other children in Ireland.
Debra :)
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Hi Debra
What good finds. ;D
Noland01 has been online since your posting and I do hope he/she has not missed seeing the information.
After what has apparently been a long search, it will be good to have something fresh to consider, no doubt. Perhaps we will hear soon.
Sue
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Hi Debra
What good finds. ;D
Noland01 has been online since your posting and I do hope he/she has not missed seeing the information.
After what has apparently been a long search, it will be good to have something fresh to consider, no doubt. Perhaps we will hear soon.
Sue
Hi everyone,
Just coming back to this now.
Firstly to say thank you for all the interest and replies.
Reading through the thread I think some people maybe misunderstood my query.Was looking just for something re. Margaret Mullen(Mullins) who lived and I assume died in Brisbane,Australia.
Her father is listed as Patrick Mullen on her sisters(my g. gran's) marriage cert and was dead at this stage (1872).As my g. gran was married in Ireland and lived her entire life here then would assume her father died in Ireland as well.
My g. gran married in Carlow,Ireland and gave two different addresses on her civil and parish marriage entries,both in Carlow about 2 miles apart.Pretty sure one was not where she was from as the same family have lived there since before 1850.(all these places are only a few miles from where I live)
The only connection to Australia was Margaret Mullen,whom I presume emigrated there sometime between 1860 and 1890 as her sister was born c.1850 going by that birth age.
Was really hoping if I could find travel,work or death details that might mention where in Ireland she came from or other siblings or maybe even a marriage record.Have no real idea of Australian records but know that some of those leaving Ireland for the states would have a record of who they were going to live with when they landed in the US.Unsure if those entering Australia in the time frame I am looking at needed a sponsor etc.
Family lore(and has proved pretty accurate so far )has it that Margaret never married and never returned to Ireland.My gran(her niece) went to the US to work c. 1909 for about ten years and would imagine if she had an aunt alive in Australia at this time maybe she would have went there instead or was there much immigration at that time?Know my gran had no family in the US at the time she went .
Maybe all the above is presuming a lot and adding two and two to get five but a long shot is maybe as good as any at this stage.
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I do no think there has been any misunderstanding at all.
There was an omission on your part however as you did not mention the name of your G grandmother's father until your last post.
Perhaps this was included in one of your previous posts.
We have furnished you with the only information findable on the only unmarried Margaret MULLEN in Brisbane in the timeframe suggested.
Purchasing the death certificate of John MULLEN as suggested will eliminate or confirm this woman once and for all.
This will do more for your research than relying on assumptions and family stories.
Sue