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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Fifer66 on Tuesday 09 August 16 21:33 BST (UK)
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Looking for some help or advice to trace death record of forenamed Carmichael Cunningham born 30/10/1825, Colinton. He was my Great Great Grandfather and last found in 1861 census staying in Colinton Village, Edinburgh with his wife, Jane Watt and children.
Although it is a fairly uncommon name it turns out there is at least another 7 Carmichael Cunningham's in the family born between 1798 and 1910 that I have found so far. This Carmichael Cunningham was a Master Blacksmith by occupation.
Any help or advice appreciated.
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Full details of 1861 entry for Colinton to help in tracing. All b Colinton
Carmichael Cunningham 36
Jane 31
William 9
Janet 7
James 5
Carmichael 3
Marion 1
Marion Simpson 14 servant b Edinburgh
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In 1871 - Jane has been incorrectly transcribed as James. You would need to view the 1871 image to find her marital status. If widowed then you are looking for a death between 1864-1871 given youngest childs age. All children from Carmichael onwards shown as b Colinton
Jane Cunningham 41 b Tranent
William 19 b South Leith
Janet 17 ditto
James 15 ditto
Carmichael 13 b Colinton
Marion 11
Grace 9
Emily 7
Lizzie 5
Janet Watt 78 mother b Dalkeith
Colinton ED 3 Page 7 Line 9
1881 entry shows only Jane plus daughters Marion, Grace, Emily & Lizzie
There are a number of trees on Ancestry but none have an actual date or place of death for him
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I wonder of Carmichael Cunningham junior is the one from L....... Place who pleaded guilty at the Police Court to assaulting his wife by throwing a plate at her? [Edinburgh Evening News 15-7-1895]
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Findmypast show Jane as married in 1871 and 1881 but widowed in 1891. Can't see any sign of Carmichael anywhere.
Isobel
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Several of the trees show a death "after 1887"
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I wonder of Carmichael Cunningham junior is the one from L....... Place who pleaded guilty at the Police Court to assaulting his wife by throwing a plate at her? [Edinburgh Evening News 15-7-1895]
I think you are right about this being his son. As mentioned I found 8 Carmichael Cunningham's in total from the same family line however this appears to be his son. Carmichael Cunningham born 1825 who I'm trying to trace was a twin. Burnet Cunningham was his brother......and he also disappeared from view although I did find a Burnet Cunningham who died in Greenock around 1871.
Thanks for all the comments so far and hunt continues!
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Carmichael Cunningham born 1825 who I'm trying to trace was a twin. Burnet Cunningham was his brother
A tree shows Burnet was born 30.11.1823 Colinton whereas Carmichael was born 30.10.1825
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Carmichael Cunningham born 1825 who I'm trying to trace was a twin. Burnet Cunningham was his brother
A tree shows Burnet was born 30.11.1823 Colinton whereas Carmichael was born 30.10.1825
Confusion reigns regarding this. Carmichael and Burnet are both on 1841 census residing with grandparents at Colinton and both are listed as born in 1826. The Cunninghams had twins in almost every generation however you are right I've also seen records with the births a couple of years apart and are brothers as opposed to being twins.
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In 1841, ages from 16yrs onwards were rounded down to the nearest 5yrs.
Burnet would have been 17yrs old when it was taken and Carmichael 15yrs old.
Burnet would be rounded down to age 15 so both boys would show a birthyear of 1826
Instructions to enumerators on the 1841 census
"Write the age of every person under 15 years of age as it is stated to you.
For persons aged 15 years and upwards, write the lowest of the term of 5
years within which the age is.
Thus -for persons aged
15 years and under 20 write 15;
20 years and under 25 write 20;
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In 1841, ages from 16yrs onwards were rounded down to the nearest 5yrs.
Burnet would have been 17yrs old when it was taken and Carmichael 15yrs old.
Burnet would be rounded down to age 15 so both boys would show a birthyear of 1826
Instructions to enumerators on the 1841 census
"Write the age of every person under 15 years of age as it is stated to you.
For persons aged 15 years and upwards, write the lowest of the term of 5
years within which the age is.
Thus -for persons aged
15 years and under 20 write 15;
20 years and under 25 write 20;
That clarifies the issue on being brothers, thanks for info, much appreciated.
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A Burnett Cunningham of the right age and place of birth immigrated to New York in 1858. Strangely a Carmichael Cunningham ( occ Smith) also appears to have immigrated in 1854 although dob shows as 1828 not 1825 ( records on Familysearch) No sign of either on the 1860 US census as far as I can see.
Isobel
Addendum - sorry I misread Burnett's year of birth which was 1823 so maybe not correct person
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A Burnett Cunningham of the right age and place of birth immigrated to New York in 1858. Strangely a Carmichael Cunningham ( occ Smith) also appears to have immigrated in 1854 although dob shows as 1828 not 1825 ( records on Familysearch) No sign of either on the 1860 US census as far as I can see.
Isobel
Addendum - sorry I misread Burnett's year of birth which was 1823 so maybe not correct person
Isobelw - Info would explain a few things. The last I can find Burnet Cunningham is in 1851 census staying in Duncan St, Leith. There are no further records in any census or deaths etc in Britain so far.
Carmichael Cunningham may have emigrated as per your info as occupation and approx.date of birth would tie in plus a fairly unusual name. It is possible he left and then returned as he appears back on 1861 census with wife and children in Colinton however does not appear on any further census after this date although name appears on children's birth certificates after 1861. More questions than answers here!!!!! Thanks very much for the info!
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Re. the Burnet(t) Cunningham death in 1871 that you found - the Greenock Advertiser records a Burnet Cunningham dying in Port Glasgow in Dec 1871 but I can't see any matching death record on Scotlandspeople in 1871/1872. Very strange.
Isobel
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Re. the Burnet(t) Cunningham death in 1871 that you found - the Greenock Advertiser records a Burnet Cunningham dying in Port Glasgow in Dec 1871 but I can't see any matching death record on Scotlandspeople in 1871/1872. Very strange.
Isobel
I can only find one 'Burnet Cunningham' born in Scotland so far under old parish records up to 1855 (Scotlands People) and birth date I have is 30/11/1823 in Colinton, Edinburgh. This ties in with Burnet Cunningham, Carmichael Cunningham's brother on my tree. As you say, very strange and plot thickens!
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Hi All,
On SP, in 1871 at Port Glasgow, a Bernard Cunningham death is registered. SP has him as a 30 yo, so does not look like the Burnet(t) we were looking for.
Tom
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In 1841, ages from 16yrs onwards were rounded down to the nearest 5yrs.
Burnet would have been 17yrs old when it was taken and Carmichael 15yrs old.
Burnet would be rounded down to age 15 so both boys would show a birthyear of 1826
if you incorrectly attempt to 'calculate' their year of birth from their age in the census.
I WISH these web sites that do census transcriptions wouldn't miscalculate like this. The available UK census never lists anyone's year of birth. It lists their age on the day of the census. The census is normally taken about a quarter of the way through the year. So three-quarters of people have yet to have a birthday in the census year. So by the end of the year they will be a year older than they were on census day. So three times out of four you get a wrong answer if you subtract the age from the census year, and by doing this these web sites are introducing a totally unnecessary new set of errors.
You are perfectly correct that someone born in the second half of 1823 would be 17 on census day (7 June) 1841, and would therefore be listed as 15 years old, thereby appearing to be the same age as someone born in the second half of 1825
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A Burnett Cunningham of the right age and place of birth immigrated to New York in 1858. Strangely a Carmichael Cunningham ( occ Smith) also appears to have immigrated in 1854 although dob shows as 1828 not 1825 ( records on Familysearch) No sign of either on the 1860 US census as far as I can see.
Quick recap on what we have so far.
Carmichael Cunningham born 30 Oct 1825, Colinton, Edinburgh.
Burnet Cunningham born 30 Nov 1823, Colinton, Edinburgh. Confirmed brothers not twins.
It looks as if both possibly emigrated in 1850's however, Carmichael was recorded on his childrens birth certificates during 1860's in Edinburgh. Burnet does not appear anywhere in Scotland after 1851 census.
Only 1 Burnet Cunningham born in Scotland on parish registers (before 1855) and its our man as mentioned. 8 Carmichael Cunninghams found in this family however none have a dob remotely near this Carmichael, in 1825, that I have found.
So......death certificates still outstanding for The Cunningham boys! Onwards!
Thanks for all the help in helping with this so far.