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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: bettyespana on Wednesday 17 August 16 18:15 BST (UK)
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Alexander Olley b.Hunworth 25 June 1859 -Railway platelayer .Parents:James & Elizabeth Olley nee Knowles
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn b.Holt June 1873 - Parents:James William Bone/Bunn & Esther Hannah Bunn nee Scott
I have all the details of my Gt Grandparents which are needed except that of their marriage.
In the past someone suggested that either both or one of them may have had a previous undissolved marriage.
They had a son James Charles William Bunn b.Newcastle 1893,Alexander James Frederick Olley b. Basford Notts 1896,Mary Hannah E Olley b.1900 Salford.
They eventually settled in Irlam,Lancs
Alexander died 1923 & Martha S.E.E died Irlam 1942.
It is strange that their first child was b.Bunn & the others were Olleys but no marriage evidence.
Note: The name Bunn was originally Bone but Martha's father changed the name to Bunn c.1880
Any help with this would be appreciated.
betty
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Do you have the birth certificate for the first child? Or have you found a baptism for him?
Found this on FreeBMD:
Birth of James Charles W A Bunn 1892 2nd quarter Newcastle upon Tyne
Birth of Alexander Charles J W Bunn 1893 1st quarter Newcastle upon Tyne
Could this be the same child, registered twice?
Death of James Charles W Bunn 1893 3rd quarter Newcastle upon Tyne aged 1
Likely that they married between 1892 and 1896, but I've looked at all marriages of Bunn and not found anything likely. There's no marriage of Alexander Ollley in this timescale either.
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Do you have the birth certificate for the first child? Or have you found a baptism for him?
Found this on FreeBMD:
Birth of James Charles W A Bunn 1892 2nd quarter Newcastle upon Tyne
Birth of Alexander Charles J W Bunn 1893 1st quarter Newcastle upon Tyne
Could this be the same child, registered twice?
Death of James Charles W Bunn 1893 3rd quarter Newcastle upon Tyne aged 1
Likely that they married between 1892 and 1896, but I've looked at all marriages of Bunn and not found anything likely. There's no marriage of Alexander Ollley in this timescale either.
No I haven't got the birth cert of either child.
What I can tell you is that the one b.1893 was my Grandad Alexander James Frederick Olleys brother & he didn't die until 1916 when he initially was missing presumed dead.
I was more recently informed that was listed on the Al Basrah Memorial,Iraq as died 8.August 1916 Panel 31-64 Service No.2257.Private in the Manchester Regiment Ist Battalion.
I believe this Memorial has now been moved to the new Arboretum in England.
betty
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One possibility is that one may have been widowed.
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What I can tell you is that the one b.1893 was my Grandad Alexander James Frederick Olleys brother & he didn't die until 1916 when he initially was missing presumed dead.
I was more recently informed that was listed on the Al Basrah Memorial,Iraq as died 8.August 1916 Panel 31-64 Service No.2257.Private in the Manchester Regiment Ist Battalion.
Listed here as
Charles James William Bunn, husband of Minnie
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1655886/BUNN,%20CHARLES%20JAMES%20WILLIAM
ADDED
He married as Charles J W Bunn 1913 St John Irlam and Minnie remarried 1917
(See Lancashire BMD)
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What I can tell you is that the one b.1893 was my Grandad Alexander James Frederick Olleys brother & he didn't die until 1916 when he initially was missing presumed dead.
I was more recently informed that was listed on the Al Basrah Memorial,Iraq as died 8.August 1916 Panel 31-64 Service No.2257.Private in the Manchester Regiment Ist Battalion.
T
Listed here as
Charles James William Bunn, husband of Minnie
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1655886/BUNN,%20CHARLES%20JAMES%20WILLIAM
ADDED
He married as Charles J W Bunn 1913 St John Irlam and Minnie remarried 1917
(See Lancashire BMD)
Thank you Ladyhawk I have been able to download the official details of Charles J W Bunn now(he was known as William to the family .I also wasn't aware that Minnie his wife had re-married.
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One possibility is that one may have been widowed.
Maybe,I don't know.Perhaps it was Alexander as there is quite a difference in age between him & Martha.
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Is it possible that father was not present for 1st childs registration i.e. couldn't have fathers surname on cert?
Annie
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Hi
The marriage of Charles J W Bunn to Minnie Ashton in Irlam has a blank on the certificate for father of the groom. This might suggest that his father was not in fact Alexander Olley.
William
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Hi
The marriage of Charles J W Bunn to Minnie Ashton in Irlam has a blank on the certificate for father of the groom. This might suggest that his father was not in fact Alexander Olley.
William
Good spot Millmoor - The transcription is on Lancashire OPC
10 May 1913 St John the Baptist, Irlam, Lancashire
Charles James Wm. Bunn 22, Engine Driver, Irlam
Minnie Ashton 22, Spinster, Irlam father Robert, Engine Fitter
Witnessed by John Burnell; Amy Toole
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Hi
The marriage of Charles J W Bunn to Minnie Ashton in Irlam has a blank on the certificate for father of the groom. This might suggest that his father was not in fact Alexander Olley.
William
Good spot Millmoor - The transcription is on Lancashire OPC
10 May 1913 St John the Baptist, Irlam, Lancashire
Charles James Wm. Bunn 22, Engine Driver, Irlam
Minnie Ashton 22, Spinster, Irlam father Robert, Engine Fitter
Witnessed by John Burnell; Amy Toole
Yes I see now.St Johns Irlam is also where Alexander & Martha are buried.
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father named on marriage of son Alexander
14 Jul 1917 St Mark, Worsley, Lancashire, England
Alexander James Frederick Olley - 21, Engineer father Alexander platelayer
17 Ivy Cottages, Fiddler's Lane, Irlam
Agnes Broadbent - 20, Spinster, father George Dec'd shoemaker
360A Worsley Rd., Winton
Witnessed by Harry Burbidge; Mary Olley
Perhaps Charles James William Bunn was born before they married :-\
I've been checking but have not come across a marriage for Alexander Olley & Martha Bunn ???
Have you checked the 1911 census to see how many children they had
and how long they have been married?
Was just about to add the following when you posted
Yes I see now.St Johns Irlam is also where Alexander & Martha are buried.
Burial: 8 Aug 1923 St John the Baptist, Irlam,
Alexander Olley - Age: 64
Abode: 17 Fiddlers Lane
Grave: NG NW next but one South Rachel Arstall Row 9
Burial: 20 Jun 1942 St John the Baptist, Irlam
Martha Olley - Age: 68 yrs.
Abode: 17 Fiddler's Lane
Grave: Old Yd. N. near Ch. Stone
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father named on marriage of son Alexander
14 Jul 1917 St Mark, Worsley, Lancashire, England
Alexander James Frederick Olley - 21, Engineer father Alexander platelayer
17 Ivy Cottages, Fiddler's Lane, Irlam
Agnes Broadbent - 20, Spinster, 3
60A Worsley Rd., Winton father George Dec'd shoemaker
Alexander Olley, Platelayer
Witnessed by Harry Burbidge; Mary Olley
Perhaps Charles James William Bunn was born before they married :-\
I've been checking but have not come across a marriage for Alexander Olley & Martha Bunn ???
Have you checked the 1911 census to see how many children they had
and how long they have been married?
Yes these are my Grandparents & I have a copy of this certificate. They had 3 daughters of which my Mum was the middle one.Grandad Alexander deserted my Grandma Agnes when Mum was about 12yrs.
I haven't tried the 1911c.I know they lived at 17 Fiddlers Lane Irlam.
betty
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It is strange that their first child was b.Bunn & the others were Olleys but no marriage evidence.
That would immediately suggest to me that he was the illegitimate son of Martha and not an Olley.
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County Durham Chester Le Street
Archive reference RG12 P 4122 F 63 P 35
Alexander OLLEY age 28 Single age born Norfolk occ Labourer
boarding at Railway Hut Pitt Hill in 1891
Is this Alexander on 1891 census?
Where was Martha Bunn living in 1891?
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County Durham Chester Le Street
Archive reference RG12 P 4122 F 63 P 35
Alexander OLLEY age 28 Single age born Norfolk occ Labourer
boarding at Railway Hut Pitt Hill in 1891
Is this Alexander on 1891 census?
Where was Martha Bunn living in 1891?
Yes,that is him I have these details as posted earlier.I don't know where Martha was living at the time.I only have her in Holt on the 1881c.
betty
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father named on marriage of son Alexander
14 Jul 1917 St Mark, Worsley, Lancashire, England
Alexander James Frederick Olley - 21, Engineer father Alexander platelayer
17 Ivy Cottages, Fiddler's Lane, Irlam
Agnes Broadbent - 20, Spinster, 3
60A Worsley Rd., Winton father George Dec'd shoemaker
Alexander Olley, Platelayer
Witnessed by Harry Burbidge; Mary Olley
Perhaps Charles James William Bunn was born before they married :-\
I've been checking but have not come across a marriage for Alexander Olley & Martha Bunn ???
Have you checked the 1911 census to see how many children they had
and how long they have been married?
Yes these are my Grandparents & I have a copy of this certificate. They had 3 daughters of which my Mum was the middle one.Grandad Alexander deserted my Grandma Agnes when Mum was about 12yrs.
I haven't tried the 1911c.I know they lived at 17 Fiddlers Lane Irlam.
betty
Just been trying to get into the 1911c & can't get any info.
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Martha Sarah is in Holt in 1891 - mistranscribed as "Rone"
She's listed as Sarah EE Bone, aged 18, born Holt. Parents are William J and Esther H Bone. They're in Brick Kiln Lane.
Class: RG12; Piece: 1512; Folio: 7; Page: 8
1911 Census says they had been married for 18 years. Tellingly, their oldest is given as 19 years old.
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1911 Census says they had been married for 18 years. Tellingly, their oldest is given as 19 years old.
Sorry I can't find their marriage anywhere ??? ::)
The only Bunn/Olley marriages I can find are
1922 Barton I
Frank F W to Mary H E
And
1891 Erpingham
James Bunn to Mary Ann S Olley
Married 25 Jan 1891Stody, Norfolk, England
The above couple can be found on 1891 census
James Bunn Head 23 1868 Bricklayer
Sebrina Bunn Wife 25 1866 -
Ellen R Olley Daughter In Law 3 1888
Baptism Stody 30 Dec 1888 born 03 Mar 1888
Ellen Rose Olley to Mary Ann Sebrina, no father named
And the only marriage for a person named Alexander OLLEY I can find is this one
1880 Lexden
Alexander William Olley
To either
Alice Sainty / Harriet Smith
1881 census shows
Alice OLLEY b1859 living with her parents James & Mary Ann SAINTY no husband with her
1891c
Alice OLLEY mar. has 5 children, no husband at home
children Ida F(lorence) 8, Charles A(lexander)5 , Victor L(ionel) 3 , Norman T(hornley) 2 & Dora (Jane) 0
RG12 Piece/Folio 1395/ 39 Page Number 29
and 1901
Alice OLLEY is noted as widow
her children appear to be
William (James) 20 (1881) he died 1903 age 22
Charles 15, Victor 14, Norman 12 , Dora 10, Gertrude (Ellen) 9,
Stanley (Sainty) Olley 8 (1893)
All the childrens births are reg. Lexden Essex
There's a death Maldon (Essex) 1929 for an Alice OLLEY age 70 (1859)
I can't find a birth or a death entry for an Alexander William Olley ???
only these birth/death entries
1859 Erpingham Alexander Olley
and
1923 Barton upon Irwell Alexander Olley age 64 (1859)
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Just to add to Ladyhawk's post - Frank F W Bunn was born in Holt while Mary H E (which would appear to stand for Hannah Easter) was the daughter of Alexander Olley. Her baptism and marriage records are both on Ancy.
William
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It is strange that their first child was b.Bunn & the others were Olleys but no marriage evidence.
That would immediately suggest to me that he was the illegitimate son of Martha and not an Olley.
My thought too Groom (illegitimate) from Reply #7:
Is it possible that father was not present for 1st childs registration i.e. couldn't have fathers surname on cert?
Had she been married the father wouldn't have had to be present at registration.
Annie.
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Martha Sarah is in Holt in 1891 - mistranscribed as "Rone"
She's listed as Sarah EE Bone, aged 18, born Holt. Parents are William J and Esther H Bone. They're in Brick Kiln Lane.
Class: RG12; Piece: 1512; Folio: 7; Page: 8
1911 Census says they had been married for 18 years. Tellingly, their oldest is given as 19 years old.
Thanks for this so she wasn't in the same place as Alexander Olley when her 1st child was born but if as it says in the 1911 that they were married 18yrs then that would be the same year 1893 when her 1st child was born in Newcastle.By 1896 Alexander JF Olley was born in Basford,Notts. & she had left Norfolk & was with Alexander Olley the father.By 1900 they had moved to Salford & Mary Hannah E Olley was born.
In the 1901c they were living at 32 Harry Street Ordsall,Salford.
By 1911 they lived at Ivy Cottage,Fiddlers Lane Irlam & stayed there for the rest of their lives.
As no marriage has been found despite lots of work by everyone looking for it I am not convinced that they did marry.If they did was it back in Norfolk or somewhere between the North East & Basford Notts where my Grandad Alexander was born ??
betty
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There is the (faint) possibility that the marriage just didn't get indexed at national level.
I recently had to help a friend whose relatives knew that a marriage had taken place (some of them were there!), but there was nothing in the Marriages Index. The marriage was there - I went to the Record Office and found it in the PR - but the page hadn't been indexed.
And to save everyone time, I've already had a look at Holt, and it's not there!
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There is the (faint) possibility that the marriage just didn't get indexed at national level.
I recently had to help a friend whose relatives knew that a marriage had taken place (some of them were there!), but there was nothing in the Marriages Index. The marriage was there - I went to the Record Office and found it in the PR - but the page hadn't been indexed.
And to save everyone time, I've already had a look at Holt, and it's not there!
Thank you for this explanation I understand that could be a possibility now.Only thing is living in Spain I cannot access the Record Offices.
Thank you so much though for looking at the Holt records & ruling that out.I know a lot of the family of Olleys lived in Hunworth (married & buried there) maybe that could be an option.
betty
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1880 Lexden
Alexander William Olley
To either
Alice Sainty / Harriet Smith
Alexander William Olley married Alice Sainty at Wivenhoe on 9 Sep 1880, both age 21 and both were living in Wivenhoe. Alexander was a mariner. His father was Jacob Olley - mariner, her father was James Sainty - mariner. Witnesses: Charles John Olley and Mary Ann Mudling (?)
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1880 Lexden
Alexander William Olley
To either
Alice Sainty / Harriet Smith
Hello Lizziel,
Thank you for this but this is not my Gt Grandad Alexander Olley. My Alexander Olley was a Railway worker b.Hunworth 1859 4B65 BMD.Parents were James Olley & Elizabeth Olley nee Knowles,& as far as I am aware Alexander didn't have a second name.
At first I thought it maybe a possibility until I saw the name of his father Jacob as opposed to James. Your time & effort are appreciated
Alexander William Olley married Alice Sainty at Wivenhoe on 9 Sep 1880, both age 21 and both were living in Wivenhoe. Alexander was a mariner. His father was Jacob Olley - mariner, her father was James Sainty - mariner. Witnesses: Charles John Olley and Mary Ann Mudling (?)
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I agree, two separate Alexander Olleys. As a mariner, quite likely to be away from home a lot. His father Jacob has a number of records so he is real - mercant seaman, marriage in Wivenhoe to Mahala Ellis, Found him on a couple of censuses.
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I agree, two separate Alexander Olleys. As a mariner, quite likely to be away from home a lot. His father Jacob has a number of records so he is real - mercant seaman, marriage in Wivenhoe to Mahala Ellis, Found him on a couple of censuses.
Thank you Lizziel,
The family that Ladyhawk has listed are all mine,but once again no evidence of a marriage by Alexander & Martha. There were marriages between the families of Bunn & Olley but apparently not these two. You have all worked hard on this but I think this may be the end of the road .
betty
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There were marriages between the families of Bunn & Olley but apparently not these two.
You have all worked hard on this but I think this may be the end of the road .
I just posting this whilst red writing
No help with Marthas BUNNs marriage I'm afraid :(
did she have a brother named James Bunn?
It would appear that the
Mary Ann Sebrina OLLEY that married 25 Jan 1891 Stody Norfolk to
James BUNN
Is the sister of Alexander Olley daughter of James Olley & Eliza
Having looked again this morning I came to the same conclusion that the other
Alexander William Olley was probably a different person :(
Have you thought about obtaining the birth certificate of Charles James William Bunn
to see where they were living at the time and confirming his mother's name?
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There were marriages between the families of Bunn & Olley but apparently not these two.
You have all worked hard on this but I think this may be the end of the road .
I just posting this whilst red writing
No help with Marthas BUNNs marriage I'm afraid :(
did she have a brother named James Bunn?
It would appear that the
Mary Ann Sebrina OLLEY that married 25 Jan 1891 Stody Norfolk to
James BUNN
Is the sister of Alexander Olley daughter of James Olley & Eliza
Having looked again this morning I came to the same conclusion that the other
Alexander William Olley was probably a different person :(
Have you thought about obtaining the birth certificate of Charles James William Bunn
to see where they were living at the time and confirming his mother's name?
Yes if you see my return post I have just sent to Ladyhawk you will see that Mary Ann Sebina Olley (sister of Alexander) did in fact marry James Bunn who was a brother of Martha.
I no longer purchase certs as I can no longer afford to plus I have had some that never arrived here in Spain.
betty
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I don't know if this has anything to do with your Bunn & Olley family
but thought I'd post because of their names, both baptism on same day
but it doesn't give their year of birth
Transcription details from England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Charles James William BUNN
Baptism date 08 Feb 1905
Residence Irlam, Lancashire, England
Mother's first name Eliza BUNN
Lancashire OPC has Baptism: 8 Feb 1905 St John the Baptist, Irlam, Lancashire, England
Charles James William Bunn - [Child] of Eliza Bunn, Abode: Irlam
Alexander James Frederick OLLEY
Baptism date 08 Feb 1905
Residence Irlam, Lancashire, England
Father's name Alexander Olley
Mother's name Eliza Olley
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I don't know if this has anything to do with your Bunn & Olley family
but thought I'd post because of their names, both baptism on same day
but it doesn't give their year of birth
Transcription details from England Births & Baptisms 1538-1975
Charles James William BUNN
Baptism date 08 Feb 1905
Residence Irlam, Lancashire, England
Mother's first name Eliza BUNN
Lancashire OPC has Baptism: 8 Feb 1905 St John the Baptist, Irlam, Lancashire, England
Charles James William Bunn - [Child] of Eliza Bunn, Abode: Irlam
Alexander James Frederick OLLEY
Baptism date 08 Feb 1905
Residence Irlam, Lancashire, England
Father's name Alexander Olley
Mother's name Eliza Olley
Thank you so much for this:
Charles James William Bunn was b.1893 Newcastle died 8 March 1916 Al Basra,Iraq.
Alexander James Frederick Olley my Grandfather was born 3rd April 1896 - 5 Suez Street Basford ,Notts. Died Irlam 3rd August 1923.
betty
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Their younger sister Mary Hannah Easter Olley was baptised at same place on 12 Dec 1904, only 2 months earlier - why not get them all baptised together?
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Their younger sister Mary Hannah Easter Olley was baptised at same place on 12 Dec 1904, only 2 months earlier - why not get them all baptised together?
I agree that is really strange.I wonder if the boys asked if they had been baptised & said they would like to be.
It is odd really because my Mums eldest sister (one of Alexander James Frederick Olleys daughters) was not baptised until just before her marriage when she was 17yrs. Mum & her younger sister had already been baptised within months of birth.Gosh I have got a really odd lot here!!
betty
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Alexander Olley b.Hunworth 25 June 1859 -Railway platelayer .Parents:James & Elizabeth Olley nee Knowles
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn b.Holt June 1873 - Parents:James William Bone/Bunn & Esther Hannah Bunn nee Scott
I have all the details of my Gt Grandparents which are needed except that of their marriage.
Is this just a coincidence or do you think there is any connection here to your
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn?
note the year of this marriage between George & Ann
19 Jan 1903 St Luke, Weaste, Lancashire, England
George Arthur Kellett - 33 Engineer Gaythorne Kellett, Boilermaker
131 Bridson St.
Ann Bunn - 17 James Bunn, occ Boatman
131 Bridson St.
Witness: Moses Bunn; Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn
ADDED
Hi bettyespana Re: your reply #36
You quoted the above info. I posted but there doesn't appear to be a reply from you
So do you think there maybe a connection here to your Martha S E E Bunn/Bone?
May just be a coincidence that the person above has exactly the same name as your Martha :-\
If that is the same Martha in 1903 if she was married to Alexander Olley I would have thought
her surname should read Olley rather than Bunn, so would possibly suggest that she had not married him.
oops just modified the wrong post ::)
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Here's another baptism from Lancashire OPC surname HOLLY
25 Apr 1902 St John the Baptist, Irlam, Lancs.
Eliza Holly - [Child] of Alexander Holly Occ. Labourer & Martha Eliza Sarah
Abode: Irlam
Notes: P [in the margin]
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Alexander Olley b.Hunworth 25 June 1859 -Railway platelayer .Parents:James & Elizabeth Olley nee Knowles
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn b.Holt June 1873 - Parents:James William Bone/Bunn & Esther Hannah Bunn nee Scott
I have all the details of my Gt Grandparents which are needed except that of their marriage.
Is this just a coincidence or do you think there is any connection here to your
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn?
note the year of this marriage between George & Ann
19 Jan 1903 St Luke, Weaste, Lancashire, England
George Arthur Kellett - 33 Engineer Gaythorne Kellett, Boilermaker
131 Bridson St.
Ann Bunn - 17 James Bunn, occ Boatman
131 Bridson St.
Witness: Moses Bunn; Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn
Haven't found a connection with your Martha SEEB yet
but I do think
Moses & Ann BUNN were siblings born in Runcorn Cheshire details from 1891 census
shows them together with a father named James occ Boatman mother Harriett
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:494W-5T2
birth reg Runcorn (FreeBMD)
Moses Bunn Sep 1880
Ann Bunn Sep 1886
Bapt All Saints Runcorn Cheshire
11 July 1880 Moses Bunn
11 July 1886 Ann Bunn
parents James occ Waterman & Harriett abode Runcorn
Purely for info. here's a little more on Moses BUNN
Service number 5734
Regiment Manchester Regiment - 63rd & 96th Foot
Attestation date 17 Apr 1899
next of kin named as
father James Bunn, 374 Ordsall lane Salford Lancs
Older brother Chas Bunn, Shrop
Married Salford 2/11/1907 Sarah Radcliffe Hindley,
witnesses Frank Burgess & Nellie Bunn,
child James Bunn born 4 June 1906 Salford
Moses his with his father James Bunn occ Waterman mother Harriett and sibling
Charles born 1879 Tunstall Staffs living Hatton Road Runcorn in 1881
Service number 75891
Regiment Manchester Regiment
Unit / Battalion 1/5th, 3rd Battalion
Year 1918
Next of Kin wife Sarah BUNN 90 Sunnyside St., Salford
Married St Bartholomew Salford 2/11/1907
Children
James 4/6/1908 2 Irwell Street Salford
Lavinia 13/12/1911 100 Gloucester Street Salford
Annie 3/9/1917 90 Sunnyside St., Salford
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for info. just in case needed marriage of James & Harriet
29 Oct 1877 Parish Church Old Rode Cheshire
James Bunn f/a occ. waterman f Charles occ. boatman
Harriett Hollinshead 20 f Moses boatman
Wits Thomas & Mary Hollinshead
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Don't know if you have seen these - you need credits to view record for 1939 Register
Irlam R.D. Lancashire
Surname transcribed as DILLEY
and dau Marys
Surname transcribed as DUNN
also looks as if some of their middle initials have been mistranscribed too ::)
Martha L E E OLLEY born 1878
Alexander J T born 1896
Mary H E BUNN born 1900
Frank F W born 1899
2 more people who are officially closed
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Don't know if you have seen these - you need credits to view record for 1939 Register
Irlam R.D. Lancashire
Surname transcribed as DILLEY
and dau Marys
Surname transcribed as DUNN
also looks as if some of their middle initials have been mistranscribed too ::)
Martha L E E OLLEY born 1878
Alexander J T born 1896
Mary H E BUNN born 1900
Frank F W born 1899
2 more people who are officially closed
Sadly I cannot pay anything over the net so that is a no no but I can see thanks to yourself that these are my family members.
Martha S E E initials mistranscribed & Alexanders J F
betty
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Apologies if I'm duplicating information - not sure if you have these baptisms all on same day
Abode Peacock Lane Holt bapt. Apr 11 1880 2nd Sunday after Easter
Parents James BONE occ Carter & Hannah
James born 12 April 1868
Charles George born 18 Oct 1870
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza (no dob given)
Archive Norfolk Record Office
Archive reference PD 2/6
Page 116
Record set : Norfolk baptisms
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Apologies if I'm duplicating information - not sure if you have these baptisms all on same day
Abode Peacock Lane Holt bapt. Apr 11 1880 2nd Sunday after Easter
Parents James BONE occ Carter & Hannah
James born 12 April 1868
Charles George born 18 Oct 1870
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza (no dob given)
Archive Norfolk Record Office
Archive reference PD 2/6
Page 116
Record set : Norfolk baptisms
Thank you Ladyhawk no I hadn't got these & I wondered what Charles second name was .They really went in for multiple names in this family. Great info.
betty
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For info. here they are on 1871 & 1881 census
Cromer Road, Holt, Erpingham, Norfolk,
James Wm Bone 30 1841 Norfolk, England
Hannah Bone 26 1845 Norfolk,
William E Bone 5 1866 Norfolk,
James Bone 3 1868 Norfolk,
Charles G Bone 0 1871 Norfolk, England
Peacock Lane Cromer Road, Holt, Erpingham, Norfolk,
James Bone 40 1841 Carter And Farmer 6 Acres Holt, Norfolk
Hannah Bone 34 1847 Briston, Norfolk
Edward Bone 15 1866 Farm Labourer Briston, Norfolk
James Bone 13 1868 Scholar Holt, Norfolk,
Charles G Bone 11 1870 Scholar Holt, Norfolk,
Sarah E Bone 7 1874 Scholar Holt, Norfolk
Walter J Bone 5 1876 Scholar Holt, Norfolk
Henry B Bone 2 1879 Scholar Holt, Norfolk
ADDED
missed Henry B Bone's baptism 14 March 1880 5th Sunday in Lent
it was the same page as the others 3 his middle name Benjamin born 18th Jan 1879
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For info. here they are on 1871 & 1881 census
Cromer Road, Holt, Erpingham, Norfolk,
James Wm Bone 30 1841 Norfolk, England
Hannah Bone 26 1845 Norfolk,
William E Bone 5 1866 Norfolk,
James Bone 3 1868 Norfolk,
Charles G Bone 0 1871 Norfolk, England
Peacock Lane Cromer Road, Holt, Erpingham, Norfolk,
James Bone 40 1841 Carter And Farmer 6 Acres Holt, Norfolk
Hannah Bone 34 1847 Briston, Norfolk
Edward Bone 15 1866 Farm Labourer Briston, Norfolk
James Bone 13 1868 Scholar Holt, Norfolk,
Charles G Bone 11 1870 Scholar Holt, Norfolk,
Sarah E Bone 7 1874 Scholar Holt, Norfolk
Walter J Bone 5 1876 Scholar Holt, Norfolk
Henry B Bone 2 1879 Scholar Holt, Norfolk
Thank you again,yes I have these.Sometime before the 1891c the the name was changed from Bone to Bunn.
betty
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Sorry no nearer to finding a marriage for Alexander Olley to Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bone/Bunn ???
for info.
I believe Frank Frederick William Bunn born c 1900 who married Mary H E Olley
might be the son of
Walter John Frederick Bunn (1874) son of James William Bone/Bunn & Hannah
he appears to have married 1895 Oct-Nov-Dec Mitford Georgina BUSH
1901 Brick Kiln Lane, Holt, Erpingham, Norfolk
Frederick Bunn 25 1876 General Labourer Holt, Norfolk
Georgianna Bunn 26 1875 Swanton Morley, Norfolk
Daisy Bunn 5 1896 - Holt, Norfolk
Violet Bunn 3 1898 - Holt, Norfolk
Frank Bunn 1 1900 - Holt, Norfolk
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Sorry no nearer to finding a marriage for Alexander Olley to Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bone/Bunn ???
for info.
I believe Frank Frederick William Bunn born c 1900 who married Mary H E Olley
might be the son of
Walter John Frederick Bunn (1874) son of James William Bone/Bunn & Hannah
he appears to have married 1895 Oct-Nov-Dec Mitford Georgina BUSH
1901 Brick Kiln Lane, Holt, Erpingham, Norfolk
Frederick Bunn 25 1876 General Labourer Holt, Norfolk
Georgianna Bunn 26 1875 Swanton Morley, Norfolk
Daisy Bunn 5 1896 - Holt, Norfolk
Violet Bunn 3 1898 - Holt, Norfolk
Frank Bunn 1 1900 - Holt, Norfolk
Thank you for this info Ladyhawk,
I must conclude that we have been seeking a marriage for Alexander Olley & Martha S.E.E Bunn that never happened.I appreciate everything else that has been found in the course of looking for the marriage.
regards
betty
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Has anyone found Alexander Olley on the 1881 census, I have him on 1861, 71 with parents / siblings , but he is not with them in 1881. Two newspaper reports of him being fined for being drunk and disorderly in 1888 and 1889, he is described as living in Stody, so close to where his parents are living.
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Has anyone found Alexander Olley on the 1881 census, I have him on 1861, 71 with parents / siblings , but he is not with them in 1881. Two newspaper reports of him being fined for being drunk and disorderly in 1888 and 1889, he is described as living in Stody, so close to where his parents are living.
No I haven't got him on the 1881c neither. Stody is where both Alexander 4B65 BMD Erpingham & his father James Olley 4B52 BMD Erpingham were born according to my notes. Erpingham being the reg district which Stody comes under.
Probably banished from his parents house due to his bad behaviour,Father James Olley was a Gamekeeper at Bluestone Hall -Cawston & this must have caused him some embarrassment.
Now my imagination is running away with me.ha!ha!
betty
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Father James Olley was a Gamekeeper at Bluestone Hall -Cawston
Just out of curiosity really when did his father James Olley born Stody/Hunworth become a
Gamekeeper on the censuses Ive seen his occ. listed as Agricultural Labourer
Although I can't find this person on the census from a transcription there is a
James Olley on 1841/1851 census and his occ Gamekeeper he's noted as born c1807 Suffield (1851)
Has anyone found Alexander Olley on the 1881 census, I have him on 1861, 71 with parents / siblings , but he is not with them in 1881. Two newspaper reports of him being fined for being drunk and disorderly in 1888 and 1889, he is described as living in Stody, so close to where his parents are living.
No I haven't got him on the 1881c neither.
Nor me from everything that's been posted I've done a recap here
1861 Alexander OLLEY born 1859 Hunworth living Norfolk with parents/siblings
1871 born 1860 Hunworth occ Ag. Labourer living Norfolk parents/sibling
1881 ? ? ?
1891 born 1863 Norfolk occ Labourer single boarder in Durham
1901 born 1861 Norfolk occ Navvy married living Salford
1911 born 1865 Unworth occ. lab married living Irlam
1923 buried Irlam Lancaster age 64 (1859)
The nearest I could find for 1881c was a William Olley born c1863 Stody
occ Labourer Lodging at The Green Hunsworth Erpingham
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKX7-SJGS
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Father James Olley was a Gamekeeper at Bluestone Hall -Cawston
Just out of curiosity really when did his father James Olley born Stody/Hunworth become a
Gamekeeper on the censuses Ive seen his occ. listed as Agricultural Labourer
Although I can't find this person on the census from a transcription there is a
James Olley on 1841/1851 census and his occ Gamekeeper he's noted as born c1807 Suffield (1851)
Has anyone found Alexander Olley on the 1881 census, I have him on 1861, 71 with parents / siblings , but he is not with them in 1881. Two newspaper reports of him being fined for being drunk and disorderly in 1888 and 1889, he is described as living in Stody, so close to where his parents are living.
No I haven't got him on the 1881c neither.
Nor me from everything that's been posted I've done a recap here
1861 Alexander OLLEY born 1859 Hunworth living Norfolk with parents/siblings
1871 born 1860 Hunworth occ Ag. Labourer living Norfolk parents/sibling
1881 ? ? ?
1891 born 1863 Norfolk occ Labourer single boarder in Durham
1901 born 1861 Norfolk occ Navvy married living Salford
1911 born 1865 Unworth occ. lab married living Irlam
1923 buried Irlam Lancaster age 64 (1859)
The nearest I could find for 1881c was a William Olley born c1863 Stody
occ Labourer Lodging at The Green Hunsworth Erpingham
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKX7-SJGS
To be quite honest I am not sure it is that long since I did anything with the Olleys.
I will have to look at some of the past files I have.
The only thing I have found in my notes is James Olley 1851c as a boarder age 25 with a family named Carman in Cawston.
betty
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Eventually found the James Olley I mentioned on the 1851 census surname transcribed as ALLEY
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1809
Folio 614
Page 5
He's a boarder with Howlett family living Plumstead, Erpingham, Norfolk, he's single
born Suffield occ Gamekeeper
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Has anyone found Alexander Olley on the 1881 census, I have him on 1861, 71 with parents / siblings , but he is not with them in 1881. Two newspaper reports of him being fined for being drunk and disorderly in 1888 and 1889, he is described as living in Stody, so close to where his parents are living.
No I haven't got him on the 1881c neither. Stody is where both Alexander 4B65 BMD Erpingham & his father James Olley 4B52 BMD Erpingham were born according to my notes. Erpingham being the reg district which Stody comes under.
Probably banished from his parents house due to his bad behaviour,Father James Olley was a Gamekeeper at Bluestone Hall -Cawston & this must have caused him some embarrassment.
Now my imagination is running away with me.ha!ha!
betty
Found out where I got it from: Marriage Cert for James Olley to Eliza Knowles (of full ages) Bachelor - Gamekeeper - of Hunworth - Father John Olley -Warriner.
The marriage was January 29th 1858 Hunworth Parish Church.
I knew I must have got it from somewhere.
betty
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To be quite honest I am not sure it is that long since I did anything with the Olleys.
I will have to look at some of the past files I have.
The only thing I have found in my notes is James Olley 1851c as a boarder age 25 with a family named Carman in Cawston.
Hi have found James Olley with the Carman family on 1851 c lodging Bluestone Hall, Cawston, Aylsham, Norfolk :)
James born Stody age 25
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1810
Folio 221
Page 26
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To be quite honest I am not sure it is that long since I did anything with the Olleys.
I will have to look at some of the past files I have.
The only thing I have found in my notes is James Olley 1851c as a boarder age 25 with a family named Carman in Cawston.
Hi have found James Olley with the Carman family on 1851 c lodging Bluestone Hall, Cawston, Aylsham, Norfolk :)
James born Stody age 25
Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1810
Folio 221
Page 26
Yes thats it but it is only on his marriage cert that I can see Gamekeeper. Actually he is only described as a Ag Lab on Alexander Olleys birth cert.That was 25th June 1859 quite a time from 1851 when he was in Cawston.
Perhaps at his marriage he wanted to impress,although looking at his father John Olleys notes he too was described as Warriner,Retired Gamekeeper,& Carter. I wonder if these jobs were swapped about when they were working on the farms & they did different roles as needed.
betty
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Alexander Olley b.Hunworth 25 June 1859 -Railway platelayer .Parents:James & Elizabeth Olley nee Knowles
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn b.Holt June 1873 - Parents:James William Bone/Bunn & Esther Hannah Bunn nee Scott
I have all the details of my Gt Grandparents which are needed except that of their marriage.
Is this just a coincidence or do you think there is any connection here to your
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn?
note the year of this marriage between George & Ann
19 Jan 1903 St Luke, Weaste, Lancashire, England
George Arthur Kellett - 33 Engineer Gaythorne Kellett, Boilermaker
131 Bridson St.
Ann Bunn - 17 James Bunn, occ Boatman
131 Bridson St.
Witness: Moses Bunn; Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn
Hi bettyespana Re: your reply #36
You quoted the above info. I posted but there doesn't appear to be a reply from you
So do you think there maybe a connection here to your Martha S E E Bunn/Bone?
May just be a coincidence that the person above has exactly the same name as your Martha :-\
If that is the same Martha in 1903 if she was married to Alexander Olley I would have thought
her surname should read Olley rather than Bunn, so would possibly suggest that she had not married him.
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Alexander Olley b.Hunworth 25 June 1859 -Railway platelayer .Parents:James & Elizabeth Olley nee Knowles
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn b.Holt June 1873 - Parents:James William Bone/Bunn & Esther Hannah Bunn nee Scott
I have all the details of my Gt Grandparents which are needed except that of their marriage.
Is this just a coincidence or do you think there is any connection here to your
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn?
note the year of this marriage between George & Ann
19 Jan 1903 St Luke, Weaste, Lancashire, England
George Arthur Kellett - 33 Engineer Gaythorne Kellett, Boilermaker
131 Bridson St.
Ann Bunn - 17 James Bunn, occ Boatman
131 Bridson St.
Witness: Moses Bunn; Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn
Hi bettyespana Re: your reply #36
You quoted the above info. I posted but there doesn't appear to be a reply from you
So do you think there maybe a connection here to your Martha S E E Bunn/Bone?
May just be a coincidence that the person above has exactly the same name as your Martha :-\
If that is the same Martha in 1903 if she was married to Alexander Olley I would have thought
her surname should read Olley rather than Bunn, so would possibly suggest that she had not married him.
Apologies Ladyhawk but I did reply last evening as I thought but it hasn't appeared.I must'nt have pressed the post button.
I am sure this must be the same Martha as daughter Mary married Frank F W Bunn her 1st cousin who was a waterman also. Frank F W was the son of Martha's brother Walter John Frederick Bunn b.1876 Holt. & Georgina Bush.
The marriage of George Kellet & Ann Bunn where she was a witness was in 1903 so I too think she should have signed as Olley had she married Alexander Olley prior to that date.Especially when they had children together.
Irlam where the Olleys ended up now comes under Salford.
Going back to James Olleys marriage cert where it states he was a Gamekeeper I have just noticed that it has the signature of James Bulwer(Rector) as the incumbent.
The Bulwers were the owners of Heydon Hall & seemingly Bluestone Hall is part of the estate where the Carmans lived with James Olley as a boarder.
I googled Bluestone Hall up & it is only a small place to have a Gamekeeper & the Carmans were only Ag Labs.So I wonder if it was used as living acc.for the staff of Heydon Hall.
I myself lived in a " Hall" when I was younger which was part of Worsley Old Hall but it was only divided in to 4 cottages.
betty
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Good Morning,
WOW!! I have just started my journey searching into my ancestry and I can not believe my eyes!
Frank Frederick William Bunn is my great grandfather. I have a very grand looking photo of him aged 16 in his uniform looking very proud, when he joined the army. He moved to Urmston where he and his wife had 2 children my great uncle Bill (William) and my grandma (Maureen). I have been told that not only does the surname Olley appear in the family but the surname Otler!? I was wondering if anyone had come across this name whilst doing their search?
All your information posted on here is amazing and will help me with my family tree so much.
Kindest regards,
Lisa
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Hi Betty,
Forgive the public reply, unfortunately I am unable to send you a private message :( . Thank you so much for your message, I actually can not believe I have managed to locate so much information so far, and to be able to speak to another family member is the cherry on the cake! I have managed to go back 5 generations to date and like you have most definitely got the bug! Some of the stories I am coming across are amazing.
I have been given by my aunt some amazing photographs, as I stated there's a photo of Frank sat with another gentleman behind him both looking so proud in their uniforms, I have no idea who it is though. Other pictures she sent me are of Walter and Violet with Peggy as a girl, taken at the time my Uncle Bill came to stay for a while. I also have a photo here of a gentleman looking smart in his suit, my aunt has put his name on the back as Alec Olley. One is really scary to look at as it could have been me at that age!
I would love further assistance, really kind of you to offer.
Thank you again, hope to hear from you soon.
Lisa :D
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Hi Betty,
Forgive the public reply, unfortunately I am unable to send you a private message :( . Thank you so much for your message, I actually can not believe I have managed to locate so much information so far, and to be able to speak to another family member is the cherry on the cake! I have managed to go back 5 generations to date and like you have most definitely got the bug! Some of the stories I am coming across are amazing.
I have been given by my aunt some amazing photographs, as I stated there's a photo of Frank sat with another gentleman behind him both looking so proud in their uniforms, I have no idea who it is though. Other pictures she sent me are of Walter and Violet with Peggy as a girl, taken at the time my Uncle Bill came to stay for a while. I also have a photo here of a gentleman looking smart in his suit, my aunt has put his name on the back as Alec Olley. One is really scary to look at as it could have been me at that age!
I would love further assistance, really kind of you to offer.
Thank you again, hope to hear from you soon.
Lisa :D
Lisa,
I will send you a PM with my e.mail address.
Betty
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For info. searching the GRO indexes you are now provided with the mother's maiden name you just need to register with the GRO
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
Birth of James Charles W A Bunn 1892 2nd quarter Newcastle upon Tyne
James Charles William Alexander BUNN mmn ALLEY - could be a mistake with 'A' :-\
1892 J Quarter in Newcastle Upon Tyne Volume 10B Page 57
Alexander Charles J W Bunn 1893 1st quarter Newcastle upon Tyne
The mother's name has been left blank on this GRO index
so you would assume that he's illegitimate
Alexander Charles James William BUNN
1893 M Quarter in Newcastle upon Tyne Volume 10B Page 65
Alexander Olley b.Hunworth 25 June 1859 -Railway platelayer .
Parents:James & Elizabeth Olley nee Knowles
Alexander OLLEY mmn KNOWLES
1859 S Quarter in Erpingham Volume 04B Page 65
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza Bunn b.Holt June 1873 -
Parents:James William Bone/Bunn & Esther Hannah Bunn nee Scott
Martha Sarah Ellen Eliza BONE mmn SCOTT
1873 J Quarter in Erpingham Volume 04B Page 70
Alexander James Frederick Olley b. Basford Notts 1896
Alexander James Frederick OLLEY mmn BUNN
1896 J Quarter in Basford Volume 07B Page 210
Mary Hannah E Olley b.1900 Salford.
Mary Hannah Easter OLLEY mmn BUNN
1900 J Quarter in Salford Volume 08D Page 181
Frank Frederick William Bunn is my great grandfather.
Frank Frederick William BUNN mnn BUSH
1899 D Quarter in ERPINGHAM Volume 04B Page 77
Lisa Conley nee Purcell Welcome to Rootschat :)
Was your Frank the son of Walter John F BUNN who married Georgiana BUSH in Mitford 1895?
for info. when you have made three posts you can use the personal message
system - good luck with your family research
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Hi Ladyhawk,
I'm so sorry I didn't see this post until now :( Thank you so much all the information provided has been a huge help to me and my Bunn lineage. I am well and truly hooked! To answer your question (again sorry so late) Walter is my Grt Grt Grandfather :)
Lisa