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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Library and FHS Lookups => Topic started by: Genie24 on Wednesday 24 August 16 21:53 BST (UK)
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I was wondering if there is anyone who regularly visits the National Archives and could possible look up a record for me. The record is ADM 51/3421 which relates to an Admiralty Captain's Log.
I have found a death record which I think may be my great x 3 grandfather John Davis from Sunderland. He was a mariner on all four children's baptism records and died some time before 1837 when my great x 3 grandmother re-married a customs officer. I assumed he died at sea with no record of it. I have been unsuccesful finding a death until today when I found a record of a John Davis who was buried in Christ Church Tynemouth after dying on board HM Samarang. The death record stated that the captain was William F. Martin and the vessel was now in that harbour. The date of burial was 24th February 1831 the day after my great x 2 grandmother was born. She was the only child out of four that survived. Her brother was buried a month before.
I have subsequently found a will for a John Davis written on board the Samarang in the presence of Captain William F. Martin on the 19th February 1831 so just before his death. However, it gives no information that identifies him such as address etc. This was on the National Archives but there was a link to Ancestry so I could view it with my subscription.
The ADM 51/3431 record is the Captain's Log books:
Samarang 1822 Jan 1-1822 July 26
Samarang 1824 Feb 13 - 1831-Feb 28
So the last part should cover the event of his death a few days before the 24th February and ???feel sure it will be included in the Captain's Log.
Alternatively, can anyone help me to find the crew lists for the Samarang for that period.
Many thanks in advance
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Hi.
I'm planning to be there on Saturday week so will have a look for you
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Hi that is so kind and I really appreciate it. I live too far away to go and the record is not digitised so not able to be purchased. You can order copies which by past experience are extortionate. I paid a lot of money for my grandad's RAF records. I need to confirm or ignore this information either way. I feel sure it is him but need absolute proof. I am very grateful.
Julie
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I have found out a little more information about the above. John Davis was buried in Tynemouth before HMS Samarang arrived in Harbour although his death records stated he was of HMS Samarang. He signs his will on the 19th February 1831 in the presence of the Captain W. F. (Fanshawe) Martin and 2nd Lieutenant William Shepheard. Another source says he is first Lieutenant and he is later promoted to Commander on 3rd June 1831. John was buried on the 24th February 5 days after writing his will so he must have known his death was imminent.
HMS Samarang was a wooden frigate based in the Mediterranean Station. I have found the movements of the ship from a Naval Database, which confirms that on the 9th March 1831 it arrived in Portsmouth from Eastward, Capt. W. F Martin in command. On 20th April it departed Portsmouth with a party of 84 marines for Tynemouth Castle. So this means he died somewhere in the Mediterranean and was taken to Tynemouth by another ship.
His will states that his ship number was 70 and he was Quartermaster of four ships - Samarang, Blonde and two others which I can't make out. He appoints Robert Dundas and Sir Robert Sepping of the Royal Navy as Executors and bequeathes his goods and chattels, wearing apparel, wages and money owed to him to fellow seaman William (surname difficult to read but looks like Purkidell) ship number 97.
I have also discovered that Crew Agreements were introduced after this period so the information would be on the Musther Rolls for the Samarang. Apparently Musther Rolls did not contain as much information as Crew Agreements. I need to find some identifiable information such as abode or next of kin.
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Hi
Can we discount
Another source says he is first Lieutenant and he is later promoted to Commander on 3rd June 1831
given that he had been dead 4 months?
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As suggested above, you seem to be looking at a number of different people here with the same name.
On the face of it, the will you have found does not look like the will of a married man with a wife/family, since everything is bequeathed to his fellow-seaman William Pucknell.
The captain's log in ADM 51 may report his death, as you suggest, but it is very unlikely to tell you anything about the man's origins, abode or next of kin.
The ship's musters in ADM 37 may give you his place of birth, which may or may not have been correctly recorded. There is no provision in these records for listing place of abode or next of kin. The muster for Samarang covering his date of his death in 1831 is ADM 37/7743 (1830 Nov - 1831 June). It would probably be wise to check a few preceding musters too. (Crew agreements, by the way, are a feature of the merchant service, not of the Royal Navy.)
When trying to identify RN seamen at this period it can also be helpful to look at the allotment registers in ADM 27. These give details of any pay allotted to dependants back home. They may provide the name and parish of abode of a wife/mother. Most allotment registers have now been indexed on Discovery, but (after only a brief search) John Davis does not seem to be showing in the allotments for Samarang at this period.
ADDED - from the will, the other ships on which he had served are Blonde, Iphigenia and Hyperion.
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Can we discount
Another source says he is first Lieutenant and he is later promoted to Commander on 3rd June 1831
given that he had been dead 4 months?
Many thanks for both replies. I am sorry that I have caused some confusion. The above information was in relation to William Shepheard who was one of the witnesses to the signing of his will.
I am aware that this will does seem to be for an unmarried man but given that this burial record for a John Davis is the only possibility I have at the moment and his age fits. What I am trying do do is find sufficient information either confirm him as my great x 3 grandfather of eliminate him completely from my enquiries. I also wonder that if the will was drawn up hastily, maybe they were not aware he had a wife. His three children had all pre-deceased him and his fourth child (my great, great grandmother) was born the day before his burial. It is not impossible. I operate on a 'leave no stone unturned' basis.
Thank you so much for the references for the Ships Musters and Allotment Registers which I will look into. I have to admit that I find the National Archinve Discovery Catalogue very confusing and difficult to use. I have managed to find a lot in the past but some records are more difficult to locate.
Thanks again to both of you.
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I also have not been able to find any record for a John Davis on the Allotment registers. I wasn't aware of them. They do give quite a lot of detail. The Musther Rolls look promising but it is difficult living so far away from The National Archives. There is a register of Sick Book Records for the Samarang but not for the period I am looking for just 1846-1847.
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OK, I've ordered the Captain's Log and the last Muster Roll to be ready & waiting for when I arrive
I'll try and post any results from site, in case anyone can suggest the best direction to take from there
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Thank you so much StevieSteve. I am so grateful to you for doing this for me. Please don't inconvenience yourself though. I appreciate that you will be visiting the archives for your own research. I am prepared for the records to not hold any significant clues but I have to try. Please let me know if there is anything I can do in return. I have access to Ancestry and Find My Past so am happy to look for anyone.
Kind Regards Julie
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Well, I can't count this as one of my most successful lookups ever
ADM 37/7743
I found the writing difficult to read though couldn't see any mention of anyone dying in the week ending 25 Feb 1831. Rather, there were mentions of various strengths of breeze and the Purser buying bread. It was definitely cloudy, though.
I have the images of each day if you want them
ADM 51/3431
There were 2 John Davis on the muster rolls in the period, one an AB born in Dartmouth, the other a Marine 3rd class from Ardwick, Lancashire. Unfortunately, (for you, if not them) I couldn't see that either had died during that period.
Over to you for re-assessment...
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Sorry for the late reply. I have been away for the weekend.
Thank you so much for going to the trouble to look this up for me. I was hoping the records would contain even the tiniest clue. This still remains a mystery then. The John Davis that wrote the will, died and was buried within 5 days was a Quartermaster. It is strange how he is not on the Muster Roll. It is also strange that his death on board is not logged but the weather conditions etc are. I am thinking now that maybe he was transferred to another ship before his death to be brought home and the ship may have been one of the other three ships that he was Quartermaster of. That would explain why is is not on the log but not how he is not on the muster roll. If he was Quartermaster, surely he would be recorded as that.
My John Davis I have as baptised in Sunderland as I have a baptism record on 22nd Dec 1799. However, this would make him 31 not 35 at death so this could be incorrect and he may have been born somewhere else.
If it is not too much trouble, I would like to see the images.
Thanks again
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OK, I'll send them this evening
Each photo is about 4Mb so you may want to get them out of your mailbox sharpish
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Oops! Re-assessment - John Davis does get a mention - Day 5 mail refers
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To anyone following this thread, Stevie Steve has been so kind to go to the National Archives and look up these documents for me. He has now e-mailed the images and the Captains log does mention John Davis ' departed this life John Davis'. He died on 23rd February the day my great x 2 grandmother was born and was buried two days later in Tynemouth. He is also listed on the alphabetical listings - ship number 70 but no detail. Unfortunately there is no evidence to positively identify him. Regardless, I am very grateful to Steve for going to all that trouble for a stranger. Rootschat has been so helpful to me over the years.
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Hi Julie
Glad to help
The 70 is actually his entry number on the list rather than a ship
If you look at the entry for the other John Davis in the alphabetical list he has number ML 17 which was Marine List 17 as per attached
Again, looking at that attachment I see Hubert Stanton has DD next to his name which might stand for Deceased. Wish I'd realised that while I was there :-[
I think I should have another go at this next month
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In Royal Navy records, DD = Discharged Dead.
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Oh I see what you mean and I do know that a ship number is different to the number of the persons on board. I am not very knowledgeable about such things. In his will he says I John Davis Quartermaster on board His Majesty's ship Samarang number on ship books 70. So that is why I said 'ship number 70'. Maybe a later record would show him as deceased but I don't think any more than that. It would have been good to have a record of where he came from. Without that I don't think I will every find what I need to know.