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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: IanGilb on Friday 02 September 16 14:25 BST (UK)
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I have an antique oil painting with no artists signature but has a wax seal on back of canvas, can anyone please help me identify this Shield? Many thanks
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Hi Ian and welcome to Rootschat...what part of the country was the painting from and what does it depict?...this could be a Family seal which might be difficult to identify. I didn't find a google image match for it.
Carol
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Hi thanks for your reply, the painting is called 'The Violinist' and was originally attributed to Raphael. I have consulted a fine art specialist who thinks this may be a victorian copy, and the wax seal could possibly be the artists, as they would use this method to mend a hole in the canvas, or it could be the stretcher whom stretched the canvas to the frame, or possibly a collector. The painting was given to me by a family friend around 15 years ago, I believe it came from Berkshire. Unfortunately it has sustained some damage by my young niece and nephew and I am trying to ascertain it's provenance to decide if it is viable to restore. I have uploaded a photo of the painting with this post....
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Oh how lovely :o and so worth saving...thanks for sharing...is that the date on the bottom right hand corner?
For those not familiar with Raphael's work;
http://antiqueoilpainting.name/antique_renaissance_violinist_portrait_oil_painting_raphael_old_master_style.html
Carol
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Thank you very much for your interest, yes the date equates to 1518 in Romania numerals. This has been a roller coaster quest to investigate this painting, the art specialist mistakenly concluded it was a print which was hugely disappointing, he then got a second opinion that proved actually it is an original oil painting. I have spent so many hours of research on the internet trying to decipher the wax seal, but to no avail, quite frustrating! ???
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Sorry 'Roman' numerals - flaming dictionary!
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Bookmarking for interest ;)
Frank.
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Interesting!
The coat-of-arms has 4 separate parts, all impaled (side by side).
It was usual for a wife's arms to be impaled with those of her husband.
Could this be an impalement, impaled by another impalement?!
The 4 parts appear to show:
1. A saltire, with a fleur-de-lys in chief, and a sword in base.
2. A lion rampant, with a fesse over.
3. <can't make this out! maybe a pear?!>
4. 3 lions rampant
The shield is surmounted by a coronet of 4 strawberry-leaves, but I can't find any examples of such a coronet?
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My apologies to the artist ;D
Carol
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The plot thickens! :)
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Does anyone know what that verticle thing is in the centre of the shield that looks like a hinge? I doubt they had folding Shields but maybe I'm wrong...? 🤔
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Who would use wax seals in those days?
Until recently (and maybe they still do it today) Ballot boxes had a wax seal to show they had not been tampered with.
and when they talk about "red tape" they probably used wax seals to seal the bundle when it was tied up.
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Everybody who had money!
It was a very common way of way of keeping things private or official.
Take a look at the Magna Carta as an example!
I've been thinking about the CoA? I think it's more likely to be continental, as British Heraldry didn't (as far as I can tell) use the 4-way split per pale (or vertical marshalling 4-ways).
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There is a lot of shine on the photo so not so easy to see the detail, but something that I wondered about when I first saw this painting is what is the squared off area at the bottom?(the number in inside this area).
I may be misinterpreting what I see but that area looks odd and I am wondering if may originally have been part of another painting?
To my eyes the hand does not look as well executed as the face. The date written may not be the date that the work was painted - there are methods (undoubtedly very costly) of dating the materials if you wish to go down that route.
I can't help with the seal I'm afraid but KGarrad's suggestion that it may be European would be worth investigating.
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The squared off area that holds the Roman numerals equating to 1518, I assume is part of the original painting by Raphael, as other copies have the same (see Carol's link). I am collecting the painting today from a fine art specialist, who thinks it may be a victorian copy, perhaps produced in Italy, which makes the European origins plausible. Thanks for that suggestion, the vertical sections on the shield were baffling me, as I did not find any like that when looking into British Heraldry. I am more intrigued by the CoA now than the painting 🤔
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Thank you Ian. I must apologise and admit to not looking at the link provided by Carol. As I am familiar with Raphael's work I didn't bother, but I see now that I should have done. :)
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I have an antique oil painting with no artists signature but has a wax seal on back of canvas, can anyone please help me identify this Shield? Many thanks
Could it be a seal belonging to a Museum, who were previous owners, do you think?
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I have an antique oil painting with no artists signature but has a wax seal on back of canvas, can anyone please help me identify this Shield? Many thanks
Could it be a seal belonging to a Museum, who were previous owners, do you think?
No.