RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kildare => Topic started by: gerryads on Tuesday 06 September 16 08:06 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have found the following marriage on ancestry
John P Nugent/Jane Mary Dempsey
Marriage place Johnstown Co.Kildare
Date 7th November 1866
There is no image of the record.Could someone tell me where I might be able to view the original image.Being trying the NLI website but c'ant seem to find it.
Any help appreciated
Regards Gerry
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John P Nugent
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/70450711430736
Mary Dempsey
http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/a0d0af11403050
The cert should be available to view later in the week
http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/news/73-coming-soon-to-irishgenealogy-ie
This should be the correct parish I think
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0692
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Hi Sinann
Thanks. The link to the parish you gave is one that I looked at but c'ant see it there.The information I would like to get would be name of John Nugents mother even a christian name to try link him to another possible family member.I know that her name w'ont be on the civil cert and may not be on the church record but would like to check.
Gerry
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Hi Sinann
I found the marriage in the parish of Carberry/Dunford without parents names.Thanks again.
Gerry
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It's just possible but no guarantee that the mother's name could be on RootsIreland (subscription), seems to depend on where they did the transcripts from, the NLI images or the local church.
Most but not all mine have more information on RootsIreland.
Assuming they have the parish in question.
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Gerry,
Are these ancestors of yours? They are my GG grandparents.
I believe I have found John's mother's name recently, but in a very roundabout way. it is Mary Clarke.
John's father was named James and said to be of Rathcore, undoubtedly Meath. James appears on the Tithes in 1826. There were some famous evictions there in 1865. Also, a murder in 1864, which, i believe John and his brother Thomas were arrested as suspects and held for a few days.
The evictions turned into a legal case, Clarke vs. Knox. Thomas Clarke was said to be the uncle of two Nugent brothers. One of the old newspaper articles gives a timeline, something like:
"Nugent" takes up lease in 1826 (undoubtedly James)
Nugent dies about 1836.
Thomas Clarke then moves in with his sister, the widow, to help manage the land, in the interest of her sons.
His sister (undoubtedly named Mary, on 1852 Griffith's) dies about 1855.
Thomas stays on with the two brothers until the evictions in 1865.
Let me know, if any of that sounds right. I'd be interested to learn more myself, if there is a connection.
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Hi
My great fathers name was Patrick Nugent.He had a brother named James who married in 1863 in Dublin.On the marriage record his parents are given as James Nugent and Mary Nugent from Johnstown Co Kildare I have been trying to research Nugent families from Johnstown with a view to trying to find a baptism for my great grandfather
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Gerry,
That is quite interesting. My own G grandfather, named Thomas Nugent, lived in Johnstown, Kildare, with a Luke Nugent, his brother. This was at about the time of the 1901 census. It seems like quite a coincidence, if it is the same Johnstown.
Do you by chance know what Johnstown it was? I think there are at least two in Kildare. The one where my G grandfather lived is right by the border with Meath in Cadamstown Civil Parish.
edit: I should say neither Jane nor John was from Johnstown or got married precisely there, but both where from nearby and got married nearby.
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Hi
Yes I believe it is the same Johnstown.Patrick Nugent married in1858 in Moynalvey Co Meath not far from Johnstown (16 km).Ithink there might be connection between the Nugent families living in this area Kildare/Meath border.
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My G grandfather had brothers named Patrick and James. It could be possible they were recurring family names, but, of course, they are common names. As are James and Mary.
I'm not sure where Mary Clarke or James Nugent were born exactly. They both definitely lived in Rathcore, Co. Meath, prob. since at least 1826. I can almost imagine someone putting down "Johnstown" though since it is so close.
It could definitely be possible that John Nugent, my GG grandfather, had other brothers. i am not sure what happened to his brother Thomas or his uncle Thomas Clarke, only that he won the case.
I am not actually sure where John was born precisely either. The first reference to James taking lease is 1826. According to his reported age at death (not always correct), John would have been born in about 1823. He was said to be the eldest son of James, in a newspaper announcement of the wedding.
If that was the case, it perhaps seems odd that he did not marry first, but I suppose it is still possible. Sons sometimes married out of order. It could also be that the families were more distantly related, or not related at all.
But I don't think the early parish records survive for Rathcore, although I haven't been able to find that out definitely. it could be that they survive locally, within the parish.
What I would recommend you do, is try to find newspaper announcements for the weddings of James and Patrick. One of these may possibly give some further clues, such as the order of birth, whether their father was alive or not, where he was from.
The only other approach I can think of is DNA, if you have been tested. But it may not necessarily be foolproof at that many generations, as sometimes it gets shuffled out.
Edit: John was actually living on the 1901 census.
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Hi
Do you know what happened to your great grandfathers brothers James and Patrick in terms of marriage.Could it be possible my great great grandfather Patrick and yours John are brothers?
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Yes, I do, but I don't know if anything could be connected there. Patrick married Agnes Harvey in 1898. James married Agnes Bobbet in 1899. You can see both certs on IrishGenealogy. Thomas and Luke married Mitchell sisters.
I think it is not out of the question that John and Patrick were brothers, though an eight year difference in marriage for the eldest seems sort of large, it is by no means impossible.
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There is at least one Rathcore Nugent headstone on this site and others from the general area.
http://www.enfieldgraveyards.com/
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Kildare Observer August 2nd 1902
A list of farm produce for auction on 4th August
At Johnstown Bridge for Mr Luke Nugent
9 Acres of Oats on Shank and 60 Cocks of Hay.
April 1902.
James Nugent Gorteen Mill Johnstown Bridge
Sept 1933 Morris Nugent, employee of Kathleen Hackett Thomastown Johnstown Bridge.
http://archive.irishnewsarchive.com/Olive/APA/KCL.Edu/#panel=home
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Thanks, Sinann,
I knew about that old, 1805 grave before, but I didn't know that it had a picture. I don't know whether it is the same family or not, for one reason I don't know how long James may have lived in Rathcore before 1826, but the grave is actually located remarkably close to where John, my GG grandfather, grew up. The cemetery is almost adjacent to the land they held lease to in Rathcore.
Furthermore, the grave faces a path, almost like it is a choice plot, picked by someone who lived close by.
One of those cemeteries also had a picture of my GG grandmother's grave, which I had not seen before.
Thanks, again.
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Thought I would mention that there is a Catholic Parish in Kildare which is known as Johnstown or Ballyna, and the register is fairly intact.
There were Nugents there in the the earlier years, but I haven't browsed it for what might be more relevant here.
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Edenderry 1866
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1866/11555/8250378.pdf
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Patrick Dempsey, Corn Miller 1840
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007250697_00445.pdf
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/vob/index.jsp
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I should specify that I think I am all set on my Nugents. Gerryad's Nugents seem to have been different people. Probably not closely related to mine.
But Johnstown Catholic Parish is in the right neighborhood, if he found a marriage in Carbury. I'd also suggest he look for graves in that area, if he happens to find any matches in the register.