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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: Elizajb on Monday 12 September 16 02:13 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I have found a relative buried in the Anwoth Old Kirkyard (in 1884) and it is clear from the inscription on her tomb that her plot and headstone were probably paid for by a person, or people, who were not her family.
Does anyone know whether any records may still exist relating to the purchase, or other information, about these plots and if so, where they might possibly be held?
I would very much like to find the story behind this burial, as the place is not mentioned in any other record I have for her.
Any ideas would be much appreciated.
Regards Eliza.
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I don't know the answer to your question regarding records, but if you post an image or transcription of the headstone it might help clarify, and maybe give a starting point from which to search.
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Hi Ruskie,
Here is the link which takes you to the transcription and image:-
http://www.kirkyards.co.uk/allgraves.asp?Inscription=Sarah+Byrne
I've been having a good hunt around and can see that the National Archives of Scotland have some information about this church and parish, although whether that includes anything useful to my answer my query, I don't know.
I'm not able to go there and the records are not online, although apparently some of the old kirk session records are in the process of being digitised at present. Perhaps if I contacted the archives, they might be able to tell me if there is any way to search the info on my behalf.
Further puddling around on google shows me that there was a Cottage Hospital in the area, so perhaps my relative worked there. I'd certainly like to know who paid for her headstone, plot and inscription.
It's part of her story I did not know and I only found it by accident when I came across the website.
There may be no record at all, as the detail I am after is of no importance to anyone else and is quite minor, but it's worth a try.
Regards Eliza.
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Thanks Eliza. That extra information might help. :)
Do you believe that friends rather than family paid for her headstone due to the mention of her occupation rather than any family members?
See what kind of response you get here, but contacting the archives about the records would be a logical step. :)
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This may well have been reported in the local newspaper.
http://www.happyhaggis.co.uk/
The para on "Newspapers" mentions an Index of names - which greatly helps any searching of microfilms.
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The only name that comes to mind when Cardoness is mentioned is THE Maxwells and I assume she was a nurse to the family. I don't see her there in any of the censuses so far - either by a maiden name or her married name. Her maiden name was possibly Needham (alt).
Will look some more.
Gadget
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I can't be sure that the headstone was paid for by friends Ruskie, but it seems a possibility given the wording and I'm not sure her family would have been able to afford it.
Yes, that was her maiden name , Gadget, where did you find that?
In 1881 she was recorded as a boarding house keeper in Glasgow so I'm a bit puzzled by the reference to 'for many years' on her headstone as my info for 1871 and 1881 puts her in Glasgow. She was a widow.
I wondered about the Maxwell family too, although I see there was a cottage hospital in the Anwoth district. The headstone is the first reference to her being described as a nurse I have come across.
Thanks for the link to the HappyHaggis site Hanes, I now need to figure out how I can access that index of names.
Lots to think about so the extra input is helpful thankyou.
Eliza.
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Cardoness was owned by the Maxwells. There wasn't much else that came under that address apart from lodges, stables, etc.
I saw the lodging housekeeper but was not sure.. She died at Skyreburn, just north of Cardoness. Her death cert has her as the widow of a Lawrence Byrne or Burns,, Banker's Clerk. Her son, Thomas was the informant. His address was Glasgow - address is dificult to read.
I've not checked on others who lived in Skyreburn at that time. Will also look at my Anwoth booklet - I've got ancestors associated with Kirkbride not far away.
Gadget
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Maybe someone else can make out the address of Thomas ~
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Goodness, you're racing Gadget!
Thomas' address was 164 Crookston St, Glasgow. He was only home from time to time as he was at sea.
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How old was Thomas and where/when was he born?
Added - Sir William Maxwell, unmarried son, daughters and servants were at Cardoness House in 1891. He might well have known Sarah as he was born circa same time as her.
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He was born in 1851 in Ireland.
I don't know why or exactly when they moved to Scotland, but it was probably in the latter part of the 1860s.
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Hi again
From your earlier thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=674962.18
You found that Lawrence and Sarah married 1837, in Ireland. Is there any info on that or subsequent birth records or Lawrences death cert that suggests that she'd been in Scotland before her marriage.
An alternative is that the Maxwell's had a property in Ireland and she worked for them there. The phrase 'valued nurse and friend at Cardonoss' might mean that she was a nurse/friend to the Maxwells of Cardonoss.
Gadget
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No, I haven't been able to find any reference to Scotland in any previous records and I don't have a death for her husband. His name is not uncommon so to date, I've had no luck matching him to any of the records.
I've searched directories & newspapers in the past looking for any clue to exactly where they may have lived, but again, I cannot tell which one he might be.
Although Sarah said she was a widow, one can't even be sure of that completely, as it was probably the only 'respectable' description for a woman on her own who had been previously married. It's probably correct, but I can't rule anything out until I find the evidence.
I had not thought of the Maxwells possibly having property in Ireland, so that's a thought. My googling has not managed to find it if so, but I did read somewhere that there were many Irish properties owned by English or Scottish landowners.
My plan now is to contact the National Archives to see if I can find a way of accessing the records for the parish, even though they are not online and I can't go there myself. I also wondered whether there might be family papers relating to the Maxwell family of that time and if so, who might have them etc.
Seems a lot of research for a small piece of info, but the census records only give us that ten yearly snapshot of the person's life and anything could have happened in between.
Still, it's the detective work and stories which are so interesting to me in family history, not the dates or who begat who etc.
Regards Eliza.
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I had a good look online at Maxwell history yesterday. Part of my own lines originated there and I find them in KKD in the late 1600s. It took me about 10 years to sort them out - many went over during the 'plantation' of Ireland or for other reasons. I'm now going back with mine to the earlier period which is more difficult but not impossible.
I purchased lots of books and documents on the area and visited on numerous occasions. You can search for many relevant document using the National Archives online records search -
http://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrasregister/welcome.aspx
Other sources, for e.g. :
http://www.dgfhs.org.uk/
http://www.dumgal.gov.uk/article/15308/Local-archives
http://www.old-kirkcudbright.net/museum.asp
I spoke to parish clerks as well. There was also a very good section in the library at Castle Douglas. Unfortunately, I see that you are not in the UK which makes researching far more difficult.
Gadget
Added - I assumed from your thread in Ireland that you were going to purchase a possible marriage/death cert. Were they not the right ones?
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I'm going over there for a few days next month so if I get to the Gatehouse area, I'll see if I can find out anything for you.
Gadget
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That's a lovely offer, thanks Gadget, very much.
I did buy an 1865 certificate a couple of years ago but it did not turn out to be the Lawrence Byrne death I needed.
There were a few others of the same name but difficult to whittle them down to a list that wasn't going to cost an arm and a leg. If he'd had a trade instead of being a clerk it would have been easier to find him in the directories, but the words bank or clerk did not seem to go on the records.
Thanks for the links as well, I'll have a hunt through those on my next days off. I can sit all day trying to find something before I realise the day has gone :)
Eliza.
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Update: I have emailed the NRS with a reference from the National Archives which shows that there are some Maxwell family papers indexed but in private hands. I'm hoping that someone will be willing to check these for me, but I see from the automated reply I received that it could take quite some time for my query to be attended to. So, this thread may be here for a wee while :)
Regards Eliza.
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Update: I have just received a reply from the NRS but their paper records contain no references to staff at Cardoness, only deeds and titles etc. So, will follow up other possible sources of info and post any results here.
Regards Eliza.
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Hi All,
Just a thankyou to those who took the time to assist with this query - I think I have cracked the mystery.
As usual, I return to my brick walls from time to time to try to solve them and in this case, I think I have finally done it.
After lots of digging around on the Internet Archive I came up with the following information. Sir William Maxwell had a daughter called Alice, whose mother died after Alice's birth and Alice grew up to be well known as a deaconess.
In 1919, her sister wrote a book about Alice after her early death and in it, she credits Alice's nannie, Sarah Burns, with the survival of baby Alice from a severe bout of whooping cough when she was only a few weeks old.
As Alice was born at the end of 1856, this info reliably places Sarah in Scotland much earlier than I had previously thought, so probably by early 1857 at the latest. True, this cannot 100% be said to be 'my' Sarah, but given her tombstone inscription and the info on her death record, I think it gives very strong circumstantial proof that this nannie was my Sarah.
A little persistence - it's the thing which feeds the genealogy addiction when it works!!
Regards Eliza.