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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Hertfordshire => England => Hertfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Wiggy on Tuesday 13 September 16 07:48 BST (UK)
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Hello, :)
If anyone could find the birth of Frances/Fanny Stevens, I would be ever so very grateful please.
According to her death date in 1857 she was 79 when she died in Herts. She married Isaac Green in Essendon Hertfordshire in 1803 by licence, and on the certificate it says Frances Green of the parish of Richmond, Surrey.
Her children were - Frances, Martha, Richard and twins John and Thomas. Her FiL was James and MiL Jane.
- I made a rash assumption that maybe her father was Richard - but maybe not.
I can't find anything that fits really either in Herts or Surrey.
I have looked on FindMyPast, Ancestry and IGI Family search - so far without luck. I have been to the GRO site but get the impression that because the birth occurred before 1837, the record won't be there - Is that correct?
I've put a link to this thread on the Surrey board as well - just in case! ;)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=755740.new#new
Wiggy :)
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I have been to the GRO site but get the impression that because the birth occurred before 1837, the record won't be there - Is that correct?
I presume you are referring to FreeBMD?
That site has nothing to do with the GRO, but is a transcription of the GRO indexes by volunteers.
Civil Registration (and hence Birth, Marriage and Death Certificates) started on 1st July 1837.
Before that date you have to rely on Parish Registers - but that depends on knowing the parish!
According to her death date in 1857 she was 79 when she died in Herts. She married Isaac Green in Essendon Hertfordshire in 1803 by licence, and on the certificate it says Frances Green of the parish of Richmond, Surrey.
"Of the parish of . . ." simply refers to where she was living at the time of the marriage.
What does it say her place of birth was on the 1851 census?
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Could this be her in 1851?
Class: Ho107; Piece: 1712; Folio: 15; Page: 25
Essendon, Hertfordshire
Green, Frances Head Widow F 74 Annuitant b Hertford, Hertfordshire
Check, Jane Servant F 22 b Lemsford Mills, Hatfield
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Yep , she's the one. :)
You are right, I did mean freeBMD. :)
Thanks KG.
She's hiding! Most of the family activity has taken place around Hitching, Stevenage, Letchworth and primarily Essendon. All on the Green side though.
I can't see Stevens at all.
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1841 confirms she was born in county (Herts) and age (taking rounding into account)
Piece 444 Book 13 Folio 6 Page 5
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Yes, Millmoor found her death notice in a paper and so her age was fixed by that. She died in Essendon. :). Yes I have the 1841census . . . . :)
KG. I have checked Jane Cheek, the servant in 1851 census.
The only Jane Cheek, showing, was baptised in Ayot St Peters . . .which, when I look, seems to be in the middle of the above mentioned places, and near Hatfield. Parents Benjamin and Hannah . . . . not sure where this is taking me though. :-\
Wiggy.
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Yes, Millmoor found her death notice in a paper and so her age was fixed by that. She died in Essendon. :). Yes I have the 1841census . . . . :)
KG. I have checked Jane Cheek, the servant in 1851 census.
The only Jane Cheek, showing, was baptised in Ayot St Peters . . .which, when I look, seems to be in the middle of the above mentioned places, and near Hatfield. Parents Benjamin and Hannah . . . . not sure where this is taking me though. :-\
Wiggy.
I didn't expect it to take you anywhere! ;D
I just included anyone who was in the household in 1851.
A servant shows potential (financial) status - she was essentially an employee of Frances.
And no family living with her (on the night of the census, anyway).
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Yes, I think they did alright this family! Even the fact that she lives as an annuitant suggests money doesn't it?
Her daughter Frances was in Australia with her LARGE family. I haven't traced the sidelines, so don't know yet what the others were doing.
I don't know anything about Frances Stevens before her marriage - not parents or siblings.
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Of course I know what happened to one other of Frances Green,s/ Steven's son Richard!!! :)
He also came to Australia and did very well for himself with his Sister and BiL in Tasmania - he was a big mover in the town of Launceston!
Still it doesn't get me closer to his mother's birth! ;D
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Yes, I think they did alright this family! Even the fact that she lives as an annuitant suggests money doesn't it?
Her daughter Frances was in Australia with her LARGE family. I haven't traced the sidelines, so don't know yet what the others were doing.
I don't know anything about Frances Stevens before her marriage - not parents or siblings.
In 1841 she was recorded as independent and also had a servant in the household, but no family members.
She could sign her name on her marriage certificate, looks a competent signature not the childlike sort specially practiced for the occasion. She signed as Fanny not Frances. There were four witnesses, Susanna Wilkins, Samuel Hill, Jane Green (poss MIL) and William Green (relative of Isaac?) - in that order if significant.
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Hi
Isaac Green seems to have owned Essendon Mill [ Freehold ] source = 1832 voters register
£££££
Ray
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His will is on Ancestry, he was the miller and also seems to have owned other property.
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I have her marriage record. I suspect Jane Green was Isaac's mother, and William his brother.
I don't know the other two.
When Frances and her family came to Australia, we think they helped in paying for the ship to bring them - a cousin found some evidence that they had 'bottomed' the voyage. It sounds as if FiL might have assisted, as Matthias Gaunt, Frances' husband, was a younger son and a Dr, so not 'in the money'. (In those days)
Richard Green, seemed to have enough money to set himself up in Australia, so maybe father set him up too. He and his BiL set up in business together over here and they had a flour mill here amongst other investments.
However, these are things we know!! Interesting family!
But we don't know about Frances Stevens! :-\ ;D ;D ;D
I have my part of the family well and truly pegged after Frances' marriage to Issac. It is BEFORE that is the mystery!
Thank you all for what you have turned up. :)
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When to Frances jnr and Richard go to Australia?
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August, 1830. -on the Eliza, Arriving May 1831.
And I have just remembered . . . Her sister Martha also came, with her husband, (Hawkes) and started a school in Launceston, Tasmania. They may have come later.
So only the twins were not here . . unless they also came but I have missed them. (I have not searched for them at all.)
I will try some horizontal thinking and see if some brilliant thought comes to me. ;)
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Just had one thought . . think I will try to get Isaac's Will.
- I am now practised at obtaining Wills in Yorkshire, but to whom should I apply to get one for Hertfordshire?
Back in the morning . . . .
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Abraham and John stayed in Essendon, they appear on 1841 and 1851 censuses as millers. Isaac made his will in 1835 and died in 1837. Maybe all the children who went to Australia got settlements earlier and 1835 was when the last one went, necessitating Isaac to draw up a new will, dividing what he had left between the two sons who remained in England and also ensuring provision for his wife.
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Re Isaac's will it was proved at the Prerogative Court of Canterbury and can therefore be accessed through Ancestry or you could download it for a fee (£3.45 in the UK) from the National Archives.
Having read it he names wife Frances and, of his children, Abraham and John who were his executors. Amongst other directions he instructs them to invest £1,000 in parliamentary stocks and shares -the interest to go to Frances during her lifetime. She seems to have been well provided for.
William
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Both Abraham and John Green would appear to have entries in the probate calendar
John Green 6 Oct 1859 Letters of administration of the personal estate and effects of John Green late of Essendon in the County of Hertford Miller deceased who died 8 Nov 1855 at Essendon were granted at the Principal Registry under the usual Limitations to Richard Green of Launceston in the Colony of Van Dieman's Land Merchant the Uncle and Guardian of John Green the only child of the said deceased he the said Richard Green having been first sworn. The letters of administration granted by the Prerogative Court of Canterbury April 1856 having ceased and expired.
Abraham Green 4 March 1859 The will of Abraham Green late of Essendon Mill in the Parish of Essendon in the County of Hertford Miller deceased who died 17 Jan 1859 at Essendon Mill aforesaid was proved at the Principal Registry by the oaths of William Hill of the Sun In, Hitchin and Jacob Anthony of Bedford in the County of Bedford Chemist two of the executors.
Appreciate that it does not help in finding the parents of Frances but thought you might find of interest.
William
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Via HALS
James Green of Essendon
Jane Duncalfe
Hitchin St Mary
31 Oct 1764
James Green of Essendon
Jane Duncalfe of Hitchin
marriage licences 1764 [ref AHH20/10]
Looks good for an Isaac birth of 10/1770 Essendon?
Isaac Green
Baptism 30 Nov 1770 Essendon,Hertford,England
Father: James Green
Mother: Jane
FHL Film Number: 569718
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James Green (miller) of Essendon took on an apprentice called James Webb in 1771.
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Possible? ( given the Richmond Surrey detail )
Frances Stevens
Bapt 5 Feb 1772 Saint Mary,Guildford,Surrey,England
Father: John Stevens
FHL Film Number: 804129
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But 1841 census says Frances was born in county (Herts) and 1851 specifies Hertford. Richmond might be just where she was living for a short time before marriage.
Census and age at death seem consistent that her birth year is 1777 /8
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I said POSSIBLE, based upon the "Richmond" data.
Damned if I post and damned if I don't ?
I'd far rather highlight the data.
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Looks like Wiggy is expanding the net . . . . . .
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=755542.0;topicseen
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I think Jane Green, Isaac's mother, left a will. Probate date 23 Nov 1816 Prerogative Court of Canterbury. (Like Isaac's will it is on Ancestry and available from the National Archives).
(This search is keeping me well occupied as a nasty thunderstorm blows over!).
William
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I said POSSIBLE, based upon the "Richmond" data.
Damned if I post and damned if I don't ?
I'd far rather highlight the data.
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend
Stevens is such a common name unfortunately, they pop up all over the place.
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LizzieL
Forgiven :)
R
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William
I got caught in the Devon one :'(
R
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. . . . . and a new thread here :o
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=755740.0;topicseen
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Ray - stop!!! ;D ;D (but ony about the thread in Whitechapel. thought I was on to something - but I wasn't ;))
The thread about the Whitechapel family was all wrong as has been pointed out!! I'm getting all embarrassed now! :-[ :-[ ;D ;D ;D
I had that one going before I was told it was all wrong. It is quite hard when one doesn't know the districts and their relative wealth!! :-[ :-[
You have all been very busy while I slept. Thank goodness for thunderstorms say I! ;)
You've even found a new son - I didn't know about Abraham! Will have to go and find him now!! ;)
As I said, I hadn't been down the side paths apart from those who came to Australia.
What a wonderful 'crew' we have here on Rootschat.
Thank you so much everyone. :D
I have much to digest here.
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Stevens is such a common name unfortunately, they pop up all over the place.
Wish they'd pop up in Hertfordshire - preferable with a daughter Frances attached and born in 1778-ish! ;) ::) ;D ;D
Found Abraham! Thanks for the pointer!!
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Thunderstorms lasted all afternoon here! While it lasted I found an interesting link on UKBMD to Hertfordshire County Council and a page on Historic Birth Death and Marriage Records - if you then click on Hertfordshire Names Online there is a range of records available. If you decided to obtain the marriage licence for Isaac Green and Fanny Stevens it shows how to do so for a fee.
You might also find it of interest to google the names Isaac Green Essendon and Abraham Green Essendon. There is, for example, a biographical entry for one of Abraham's sons, Charles Frederick who was educated at Bedford School and became a prominent engineer in Ireland. Interesting family Wiggy.
William
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I will do William . . . Pioneers too . . . . ;)
Rats!! Put in Green instead of Stevens - back to the drawing board - (thought I was onto a winner there for a minute, when I found a Frances Green not too far away in 1777)
A big thank you folks . . . It surely does seem an interesting family. Lots of interest to look forward to when I return.
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Found a Frances Stevens born Sep 1777 to Susanna and Henry - Wonder if the Susanna signing the marriage register could be a sibling or remarried mother.
Is Ely too far away? It isn't Hertfordshire though ::) :-\ Was it back then?
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Hertford to Ely is about 60 miles?! :-\
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I don't suppose the county boundaries changed did they?? Would that be too much to ask? ;)
How far to the county border though KG? or is Hertford city near the border?
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Hertfordshire shares a border with Cambridgeshire (which is to the north), but I don't think that the borders have changed by much?
Hertfordshire (or Herts), an inland Co. in SE. of England, bounded N. by Cambridgeshire, E. by Essex, S. by Middlesex, W. by Bucks, and NW. by Bedfordshire; greatest length, NE. and SW., 35 miles; greatest breadth, E. and W., 26 miles: 465,141 acres
CAMBRIDGESHIRE, an inland county of England, bounded on the north by Lincolnshire; on the east by the counties of Norfolk and Suffolk; on the south by Essex and Hertfordshire; and on the west by the counties of Bedford, Huntingdon, and Northampton. In form it approaches an oblong, and extends in length from north to south about 50 miles, and in breadth in the southern part about 30 miles.
Parts of Royston Registration District were in both counties.
But Ely and Hertford were both central to their counties.
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Well - I have had an interesting morning NOT finding Frances - unless she was actually born in Cambridgeshire and forgot!
But in Isaac's Will, the three offspring who came to Australia don't rate a mention at all . . .so either . . .
a - there was a massive family falling out, which accounted for their migration;
or
b - Isaac footed the bill for the ship and the migration and reckoned they'd had their share.
Interesting.
But I still can't find Frances Steven's birth ;D
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Let me run this by you . .. .
What is the likelihood of Frances being baptised under a different name?
Like Jenny for example? Jenny Stevens born 1778 in Aldbury Herts to Richard and Elizabeth Stevens.
Younger sister Sarah born 1781.
NO?? Oh well . . . worth a try!
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It struck me too that Isaac did not appear to leave anything to his other children. However about half way down he does say that, after Frances had died the stocks and shares shall be divided equally among "all my children who shall be living at the time of the decease of my said wife".
William
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Do you know if Frances was a spinster when she married? Maybe she was born under a different surname.
There are quite a few Stevens marrying a Frances between 1792 and 1802. None of them look promising though.
Nor have I been able to connect her to the Frances Stevens who married in Richmond in 1793 (not the same Frances - different signature)
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Let me run this by you . .. .
What is the likelihood of Frances being baptised under a different name?
Like Jenny for example? Jenny Stevens born 1778 in Aldbury Herts to Richard and Elizabeth Stevens.
Younger sister Sarah born 1781.
NO?? Oh well . . . worth a try!
I looked at that one - Jenny / Fanny - clerk could have made a mistake. But Aldbury seems to far from Hertford town.
Isaac evidently had a lot of money to leave - was it all self made, did he inherit a lot and he continued to grow it, or did Frances bring money to the marriage?
Frances could sign her name competently so she had some sort of education which may indicate her family was on a level above "Ag Lab" or similar. Maybe looking for a Stevens will to see if anyone names her as their daughter might turn up something.
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Jenny can be a pet name for Jane - there is a marriage for a Jane Stevens to a Henry Scott in Aldbury 10 Oct 1796 and one for a Sarah Stevens in 1803.
I did notice a marriage of a Frances Mary Stevens in Hertford 12 Jul 1781 to William Dowson and wondered if there was a connection but cannot see what happened to them thereafter.
William
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;D ;D. That would have made her married a couple of years after Frances was born. So you think Frances might have been born to a single mother? Possible maybe. ;)
If I could find parents for Frances, I could look for a Will . . . Slight spanner in the works, but I can look for Isaac's father's Will. I could certainly see how many Stevens Wills I can find, bit as you have said Lizzie, there are Stevens everywhere. 😉
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I did notice a marriage of a Frances Mary Stevens in Hertford 12 Jul 1781 to William Dowson and wondered if there was a connection but cannot see what happened to them thereafter.
Frances Mary was a spinster and could sign her name
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Frances Mary Stevens was baptised at St.James Westminster 1753
Parents Thomas and Honoria
Looks right as Honoria Stevens widow as buried All Saints, Hertford 1776
Other children, all born St.James, were Isabella 1750; Francis John 1751; Thomas 1754 and John 1755
So maybe one of the brothers is Father to Frances b.1788. Maybe ???
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The marriage I was looking at, but which I now think was probably wrong, was between Richard Stevens and Ann Averillo in Westminster. :-\
I think, unless they went to live in Hertfordshire I will scotch that one.
They, the Greens, lived in Essendon rather than Hertford city. So a bit closer to Aldbury. I thought Aldbury was reasonably close to Essendon and Hitchin . . . I must have been thinking Aussie distances! ;)
Thank you all for your continued contributions. :)
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Frances Mary Stevens was baptised at St.James Westminster 1753
Parents Thomas and Honoria
Looks right as Honoria Stevens widow as buried All Saints, Hertford 1776
Other children, all born St.James, were Isabella 1750; Francis John 1751; Thomas 1754 and John 1755
So maybe one of the brothers is Father to Frances b.1788. Maybe ???
Thomas snr will was probated 8 May 1760. leaves everything to his wife Honoria. Address is St james Westminster. occ Lieutenant in Colonel Burows (?) regiment of foot.
So Honoria was left with several young children and didn't remarry. maybe her rellies were from hertford and she went to live with them
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FindMyPast has transcript of marriage licence for Thomas Stevens and Honoria Forrest dated 8 Oct 1745. can't find a marriage or where it took place
added
found it now, he's down as Stephens
He is of St James Westminster, she is of St Margarets Westminster, marriage at St Gregory by St Paul on 8 Oct
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This is odd
There's another marriage for what appears to be the same couple (Clandestine marriage) on 25 June 1745. She is of same parish, but Thomas is of St Martins in the Fields. marriage took place at Boyers.
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I have been following from afar..... Have you tried Fanny/Frances STEPHENS...
bitz.
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We have a Stevens family who moved from St James Westminster to Hertford. There is a Frances Stevens bapt 1 Oct 1788 in St J W/minster base born daughter of Walter Stevens and Jane Mosely.
And now the speculation ;D
Could there be a connection. Maybe Jane died and Walter had the child brought up by his relatives who had by now moved to Hertford. Frances was so young when this happened that she believed she was actually born in Hertford.
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Hertford Mercury and Reformer 29 March 1884 has an interesting listing of MIs from Hertford All Saints. It includes:
"Dowson Francis Mary Apr 26th 1784 age 30 years wife of William Dowson, daughter of Thomas and Honoria Stevens and Honoria, Mar 23 1783 9mos, daughter of William and Francis Mary Dowson".
Honoria Steven's mother would appear to have also been called Honoria - the will of Honoria Forrest names her granddaughters Isabella and Frances Love the expression in it where she leaves "a shilling and no more" to her daughter Honoria Stevens.
Re the clandestine marriage, LizzieL, don't know about you but the occupation given for Thomas Stevens on it completely defeats me.
Wiggy I cannot see a will for Isaac Green's father but as pointed out earlier his mother Jane did leave a will in 1816. She names early her son in law Charles Dawson who I think was the husband of her daughter Mary - maybe tilting at windmills to suggest the similarity between Dawson and Dowson.
William
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So either Honoria Forrest favoured her granddaughters, or all three of her grandsons died very young.
If that's the case, they can't be the father of Frances bc1778 >:(
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I am trying to keep up . . but have got slightly lost along the way! ;)
How did a child of the Dowsons suddenly revert to being Stevens? Where have I gone astray?
We have a Stevens family who moved from St James Westminster to Hertford. There is a Frances Stevens bapt 1 Oct 1788 in St J W/minster base born daughter of Walter Stevens and Jane Mosely.
And now the speculation ;D
Could there be a connection. Maybe Jane died and Walter had the child brought up by his relatives who had by now moved to Hertford. Frances was so young when this happened that she believed she was actually born in Hertford.
But our Frances was born in 1778 so this one would be 10 years too young. :-\ I don't mind the rest of the speculation! ;D
Bitzar - yes I have looked for Frances Stephens - no joy there. :)
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Where are you finding Jane Green's Will, please? I must be blind! :-\ :)
Don't answer that - I've just found it! :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
:o :o Now I just have to transcribe it!! ;D
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Hi Wiggy
Jane Green's will was proved at the Prerogative Court of Canterbury 23 Nov 1816. It is on Ancestry (or can be accessed from the National Archives). On Ancestry doing a search for Jane Green in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury wills it is the eighth one down.
Re Frances Mary Dowson her maiden name was Stevens and she married in Hertford in 1781. In trying to find a connection, and cover as many bases as possible, with your Frances Stevens who in the 1851 census gives Hertford as pob, we have a Stevens family who it would appear moved from Westminster to Hertford after the death of Thomas Stevens in 1760. I think for this scenario to work your Frances would have to be the illegitimate daughter of Frances Mary Stevens but there is no evidence for this and to suggest it is pure conjecture.
William
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William :)
Re the Will - snap!!
Thanks for the explanation of the rest. Could be - and no way of proving it - which makes it more likely I suppose as, if she were legitimate, she is more likely to show clearly in the records.
Thank you! ;)
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I did find a Richard Stevens married to Elizabeth Simmonds in 1777 in Aldbury, Herts. Elizabeth couldn't sign her name.
Don't think it is right, and can't find and Frances connected with them - just throwing it in for good measure. (Shows I've been looking, and not leaving it all to you lovely people!)
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I am trying to keep up . . but have got slightly lost along the way! ;)
How did a child of the Dowsons suddenly revert to being Stevens? Where have I gone astray?
We have a Stevens family who moved from St James Westminster to Hertford. There is a Frances Stevens bapt 1 Oct 1788 in St J W/minster base born daughter of Walter Stevens and Jane Mosely.
And now the speculation ;D
Could there be a connection. Maybe Jane died and Walter had the child brought up by his relatives who had by now moved to Hertford. Frances was so young when this happened that she believed she was actually born in Hertford.
But our Frances was born in 1778 so this one would be 10 years too young. :-\ I don't mind the rest of the speculation! ;D
Bitzar - yes I have looked for Frances Stephens - no joy there. :)
Sorry typo - that should have read 1 Oct 1778 for baptism, birth was 16 Sept 1778
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Thanks Lizzie - I thought I'd found that one but I think it was Sarah Moseley wasn't it?
Anyhow - I have that one saved in case it turns out to be correct! :D
Just been transcribing the Will of Jane green - very tricky writing in Hertfordshire!!! :o
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I've been having a big think about this family and in particular about Francis Stevens - about whom this thread began!! ;) ;)
1. On the licence to marry it says of the Parish of Richmond. As has been pointed out this could mean only in Richmond for a time . . .but . . . . Still can't find a record to match. - but would make the Westminster baptism more of a possibility maybe :-\ (- the one to Walter Stevens and Sarah Moseley.)
2. Says Hertford on the census data - but Isaac could have put that just because he wasn't thinking when he filled it in . . . or because she was living there and had been for some years. Not accurate but an understandable mistake.
3. There was good reason for Frances Stevens to have met Isaac Green in Surrey as his brother Thomas was owning/working in/licencee at the George Inn at Southwark in Surrey. Frances may have come into the Inn and met the Innkeeper's nephew. ;D (Depends how far Southwark is from Richmond though doesn't it. I wonder if any other family members were living in Richmond, and she was living with them. . . . . still a fair way . . . but not as far as Herts!)
4. This connection to the George Inn could also account for how Matthias Gaunt met Frances Green daughter of Francis Stevens/Green - he lived just across the river in Spitalfields where he worked as a Dr. (well, they did after their marriage anyhow. Before that he could have been quite close by at Greenwich - if only I could find his naval records.) But that's another story.
Ah well - just dreaming . . . . . . . . ::) ::) :D :D
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I've been having a big think about this family and in particular about Francis Stevens - about whom this thread began!! ;) ;)
1. On the licence to marry it says of the Parish of Richmond. As has been pointed out this could mean only in Richmond for a time . . .but . . . . Still can't find a record to match. - but would make the Westminster baptism more of a possibility maybe :-\ (- the one to Walter Stevens and Sarah Moseley.)
So, could this be the Parish of Richmond in Yorkshire?
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/NRY/Richmond/index.html
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Ooooh heck . . . that's really put a spanner in the works! :o ::) ;D
Back to thinking!
True Matthias came from Yorkshire, but that was a generation later . . . and from West Yorkshire not North. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
See - that's what happens when you don't know the country well. :'(
However I think the Surrey Richmond! ;)
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The parish record for the marriage definitely states Richmond Surrey. The vicar should have copied this directly from the licence, unless he just read Richmond and assumed Surrey. I can't see an image of the licence/ bond on line to check.
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Just to add to the post by Lizzie L the Hertfordshire County Council site has in its marriages and marriage licences index the licence for Isaac Green of Essendon and Fanny Stevens of Richmond Surrey 1803 ref AHH20/49. (A copy can be ordered for £10 but I have to say I am not convinced it would provide the information you are looking for).
The only other Green/Stevens marriages which come up in this index are James Green of Bushey to Lydia Stevens 21 Feb 1830 Hitchin St Mary and James Green of Ayton St Peter to Sus Stevens 16 Oct 1758 Kimpton.
William
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I actually have the marriage certificate and it does say Richmond, Surrey - I think I said that some posts ago, but I hought KG was 'taking the mickey'. . . (. is that a saying you can relate to? ;))
I have a marriage of James Green to Jane Duncalfe in Hitchin in 1764 and they are the parents of Isaac who married Frances Stevens.
Interestingly Jane came from Gloucestershire . . I believe . . . . . but with her whole family. Her father, Isaac, was a stonemason . .in both places.
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I actually have the marriage certificate and it does say Richmond, Surrey - I think I said that some posts ago, but I hought KG was 'taking the mickey'. . . (. is that a saying you can relate to? ;))
No I wasn't taking the Mickey! ;D
But I do know that sometimes, people from other lands assume that there is only 1 placename of it's kind in the UK?! :-\
Newport is a classic case, as is Richmond. Also Whitchurch and Weston! ::)
I just wanted to be sure that we were looking at the correct Richmond.
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Same here KG - lots of Richmonds and Croydons and Newports and well most English imported names really - only one 'Cabbage Tree' as far as I know ;) . . . but we digress! ;D ;D
You know what . . . . I don't think we can rule out people from a reasonable distance to marry into this family.
I have just found the marriage for Isaac's sister Charlotte and her husband mentioned in a will - he comes from Holborn Middlesex. Not only that but I think the son of this marriage was born in Devon - so they got around. Not a common name Sainthill, by the look of things.
So finding Frances Stevens from somewhere not Hertford is seeming less UN-likely
AND I think Isaac's uncle married a woman from Richmond - I think that's where the marriage took place anyhow. So there are family connections. ;)
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As there are 8 pages to this one I can't claim to have read it all, but there is a hand written document on line for a Baptism of a Frances Stevens 5th February 1772 Guildford Surrey-Father John Stevens. You may already have this of course.
regards.
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I don't know that I have, paco. But we do have reasonably concrete evidence that she was born 1778 - if you can count the age given on her death record . . . and I realise she could have fudged her age somewhere along the line and got everyone else in on the act..
Where did you find that record please, I would like to see it. :)
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If you type in Surrey, England Church of England Baptisms 1538-1812, you should be able to find it on there.
Regards.
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Thank you . . . .will try that method tomorrow. :)
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Wiggy
I see you must be looking at the same family tree as me, as George Green from Hobart is part of the family tree i am looking at, who had sons Richard and Phillip and descended from Richard Green in Launceston of Issac & Frances. I live in the UK now. I have sketchy details of family going back to William Greene who died in Stevenage in the UK back in 1570. A lot of the details are not confirmed, but have some detail that i will try to verify in due course.
Jason
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Thanks for your reply Jason.
Yes Richard Green arrived in Australia in 1830/31 with Matthias Gaunt his brother-in-law, married to his sister Frances.
I have not been able to reliably trace the family back beyond Isaac Green of Essendon Hertfordshire.
As I have stuck to my dire t ancestors, I haven't gone sideways to other relations at all, but I did try to find Isaac and Frances's parents - without and luck. I got back another couple of generations for Isaac but was utterly stuck with Frances Stevens. That is when I ran out of 'steam'. As far as I got, the family names seemed to be repeating, so I was fairly confident to that stage.
I haven't been doing much family history lately - stopped when I seemed to be meeting brickwalls in every direction.
I did find that the Green family was associated with a pub in Southwark (I think) which apparently is still there. But I couldn't get a definite fix on it, so haven't added it to the tree - I think it was Thomas, a brother of James Green.
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Wiggy
If you can private message me, I will email you the details i have on the Green side of things.
Weirdly enough, i don't live that far from Essendon and worked in Stevenage, Hitchin and Hertford, which are all places mentioned in the green family history, prior to Isaac. I fully understand if you have stopped and would prefer not to email!!
Jason
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You will need to remove your email address!
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You can exchange personal information (such as email addresses) via the Personal Message system.
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Going back to the marriage of Fanny and Isaac, there were four witnesses - have they all been traced. The two Greens are likely to be Isaac's relatives, and I'm pretty sure the Samuel Hill is the one who married an Ann Green at Essendon on 18 Oct 1798. It was by licence and he was of the parish of St George the Martyr, Middlesex and Ann Green was otp. Four witnesses again, one was Isaac Green. Luckily Samuel could sign his name and the signatures on that marriage and as witness on Isaac and Fanny's look the same.
So that only leaves Susanna Wilkins to track down, hopefully a connection of Fanny's.