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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: BAC3 on Saturday 17 September 16 20:57 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I am having great difficulty trying to make some sense of this gentleman's details and hope someone can put me on the straight and narrow:
On 04/07/1857 he was sentenced at Derby to 3 years penal servitude and was sent to Parkhurst Prison from where he was released early on licence on 31/12/1859. When sentenced he was aged 15 and worked as a Factory Hand. Is he the same Thomas MAW in the 1851 Census reference: HO107/2142/256, p.7? If so, I have a chance of tracing him, his marriage in 1861 and his death in 1881.
Any help, suggestions or directions would be more than welcome.
For the moment, thank you,
BAC3
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Here are details from the 1861 marriage, parent details are different from 1851 census
Ripley All Saints: 11 Nov. 1861 after Banns.
Thomas Maw bach. 20 labourer. Father: WILLIAM MAW ~ Mechanic
Sarah Hitchcock spins. 18. Father: Edward Hitchcock
Both signed with X
Witnesses: Thomas Burton and Edward Turton.
claire
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Here is the above Thomas MAW in the 1851 census
Lower Brook Street Court no. 8
William Maw hd mar 34 mechanic bn Derby, All Saints
Mary wf 32 " St Alkmund
Mary dau 14 work at silk mill " All Saints
Thomas son 10 at home "
Joseph " 7 " "
Sarah dau 5 " "
George and Henry sons 6months born All Saints
HO107 Piece 2142 Folio 513 Page 15
claire
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There is Thomas maw aged 9 parents Joseph and Eliza in 1851. What information do you have that can help narrow it down?
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Thanks Claire and Jennifer,
You have highlighted my problem......proving which of the 1851 Census returns is the correct Thomas MAW. The only main, but slightly tenable, facts are that he was 15 when he was sentenced, making him 9 years of age in 1851, and he was a Factory Hand.
I think I will need to draw up comparison profile sheets and hopefully the correct identity will emerge.
For the moment
BAC3
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Hi,
Have you found the family of William and Mary maw on the 1841 census?
I have been unable to find them, I have also been unable to find any of the children's birth registrations except for the twins George and Henry in 1850.
Interestingly there is a marriage 1850 of a William maw and Mary Shaw.
Spendlove
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Could William have been in prison in 1841. There was a William Maw born c.1817 trial in Derby 13 April 1841 where the outcome was imprisionment?
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Widower age 65 in 1881 census Derby workhouse belper, death Belpher 1885 Belper ages 70
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Hi ,
As I hinted in my last post, it would appear that William Maw did not marry Mary shaw until 1850,
So that any children born prior to this date will be registered as Shaw.
In the 1841 census St. Alkmunds Derby Hundred of Morleston & Litchurch
Piece 199. Book 3. Folio 32 pg 17
Shaw. Mary. 20 [ages rounded down in this census]
" Mary. 5
". Thomas. 1. All born Derbyshire
The above match the info in 1851 census when they all carry the surname Maw.
SPendlove
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Perhaps they could not marry because he was in prison, be interesting to know how long the sentence was?
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Good Afternoon Everyone,
My apologies for not responding sooner to your messages, but I have been involved with the local Probate Office who are (tongue in cheek 8)) desperately in need of RootsChat advice in understanding family relationships.
I shall consider all the details you have kindly uncovered and report back in a little while.
Thank you for all your help.
BAC3
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Hello,
William MAWE (sic) was sentenced twice:
(a): 13/04/1841, aged 24, 3 months imprisonment for assaulting a police officer: and
(b): 14/03/1848, aged 31, 18 months imprisonment for night poaching (armed)
Does this help?
BAC3
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Hi,
Two children were born to Mary Shaw prior to 1841 Census
Mary Shaw aged 4 in 1841 Census
Thomas Shaw aged 1 in 1841 Census
So both born prior to William being imprisoned.
Then between 1841 and 1850 there are 2 further children born
Joseph aged 7 in 1851 Census
Sarah aged 5 in 1851 Census
It is not until after the June Q 1850 Marriage, that 2 more children, twins, are born
George and Henry their births registered as MAW.
Think you need to purchase the Marriage certificate to confirm wife's surname. If this is Shaw then the following will apply, but again you need birth registration certificate to confirm.
Re the birth of Thomas Shaw, there are two registered in Derby 1 in June Q 1840 and 1 Dec Q 1840.
Think that given the age of Thomas in 1841 Census i.e. 1 year, and the census was taken June of that year the mostly likely birth is the one in June Q 1840.
Just confirmed that the birth for Thomas is the June Q, the Thomas Shaw registered in Dec Q 1840 was bpt 20th December 1840 to John & Ann Shaw
Spendlove
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Thank You Spendlove,
I am now faced with two competing parental profiles, both very convincing but not conclusive.
Obtaining certificates is certainly one way of possibly solving the problem, which I shall need to consider carefully.
For the moment,
BAC3
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The other Thomas Mawe's birth was registered 3rd Qtr 1841.
Think this is possibly his baptism transcribed with an added 's'
Thomas MAWES born 14 July 1841, baptized 13 February 1842, SAINT ALKMUND, DERBY.
Parents: Joseph Mawes and CAROLINE
Caroline Maw died 1843 aged 28 Derby St.Alkmund.
Father Joseph remarried 1846 to a Eliza SIMPKIN in register office.
Simpkin relatives living with them in 1851 census, amongst them is a niece 'JEMIMA SIMPKIN' aged 11.
Marriage Derby 1862 Register office: Thomas MAWE and Jemima SIMPKIN
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Thomas and Jemima have a son Frederick John Mawe baptized 6 April 1877 St Michaels Derby, BORN 30 Sept. 1866 Derby.
And a daughter Anne born 27 February 1863 , bpt. 6 April 1877 St Michaels
1871 census Frederick John and Ann are living with Grandparents Joseph and Eliza, no sign of Thomas and Jemima.
No death found for Thomas but Jemima Mawe marries George Lowe 1874, and Frederick is with them in 1881.
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Hello Claire,
To say I am bemused, nay confused, would be an understatement.
However, your latest message has very much inclined me to accept the 1851 Census entry with father, Joseph, and step-mother, Eliza. If I follow that route accepting his mother was "Caroline MAW" I will try and investigate the court records for 1857 and hope that some mention is made of his parents.
Thank you for all your help
For now,
BAC3
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I have found a marriage in Duffield for Joseph in 1836
Joseph MAW and Caroline ATKINS married 28 December 1836, both OTP
Both signed register
Witnesses: looks like WILLIAM MAW and Anne Corden
Interestingly Joseph Maw 27 master Mason is also in the Derby Jail in the 1841 census, convicted the same day as William Maw 13 April 1841 imprisoned 3 months for assaulting police officer. They have to be brothers , cousins or something.
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Hello Claire,
Joseph and William may have been related as the following link shows Joseph was a Witness at William's marriage:
http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/9825673/person/-193206331/facts
Criminality appears to be a MAW family trait, so Thomas MAW had plenty of teachers ;D
For the moment,
BAC3
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;D ;D ;D
Just wish we could resolve this puzzle :)
claire
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Claire,
I've made an "Executive Decision"...........................Thomas MAW was the son of Joseph and Caroline 8) No doubt Sod's Law will eventually prove it was William and Mary :'(
Thank you once again
Tony
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Thomas Maw and Sarah Wood married Derby 10 April 1798
Two of their numerous children were:
Joseph 18 June 1814
William 3 Feb. 1816
So they were brothers
;D