RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: debs14 on Sunday 18 September 16 22:00 BST (UK)
-
Hi can someone please help me with this person above, i have him as my 2x great grandfather,
while doing my tree i have come across some discrepancies as you can see his name is above but from certain records on Ancestry his name is down as Baines(especially on gravestone including his wife Emma Jane,probate)
could someone please take a look and see if i have missed something, or gone wrong somewhere im certain these records are correct as the probate goes to the 2 children that i have for them.
Name William Dalton Baines
Death Date 26 Feb 1957
Death Place Lincolnshire, Lincoln, England
Probate Date 24 Jun 1957
Registry Lincoln, England.
Name William Dalton Baines
Death Date 26 Feb 1957
Cemetery Winterton Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place Winterton, North Lincolnshire Unitary Authority, Lincolnshire, England
Has Bio? N.
Many thanks
Debbie xx
-
Hi debs14
I can see the PR when he married in 1894 and he signed as WILLIAM DALTON BARNES
He was 24 a labourer, and his father was a Charles Barnes ~ a labourer
claire
-
Baptized as WILLIAM DALTON BARNES on the 16 January 1871 son of Charles and Faith Anna of Winterton. Father a labourer.
Born on January 16th 1871.
An additional note in the register states "Recd. 4 March 1874"
claire
-
Hi Claire many thanks yes got that what youve sent me its the stuff after that especially the death/probate that ive put on and the gravestone, i cant find any other named Barnes.
many thanks
Debbie xx
-
From doing a basic search on the 1939 register it seems he chose to use the surname Baines and reversed his first names.
-
Hi Crisane,
many thanks for getting back to me i dont understand what you mean changed his name to baines and altered is names round, do you mean hes going under Dalton William,
I am still unable to find anything for William Dalton either in Census's no marriage even though i know he married Faith Anna,no death and the same goes for his father Charles.
Many thanks
Debbie xx
-
Hi Crisane,
I forgot to mention that their is also a problem with William dalton Barnes father Charles Barnes as their was living in same locale Charles Baines and his family,(also with a William Dolton Baines) this is where i have previously gone wrong, it wasent till i came across a death with gravestone picture and the name on the gravestone was clearly Baines, so with a lot of records/transcripts looking like either Barnes/Baines, this is where i went wrong.
I have taken a look at 1939 census like you said youve found and it looks like a Jane E is with him in the house,if its correct, shes changed her name around also should be Emma Jane, im unable to open as i dont have subscription to FindMyPast, can i ask do you have access, could you possible open and look to let me know what else is on the record for me please.
Many thanks
Debbie xxx
-
The probate of William Dalton Baines of 10 Earlsgate Winterton Lincs is on ancestry. he died at no 6 Earlsgate 26 Feb 1957. Probate granted to William Henry BARNES - steel worker and Dorothy Emily Ling (wife of Frank Ling)
So this record shows the use of the names Baines and Barnes. Is William Henry William Dalton's son?
I am getting a bit puzzled. Is this William Henry Barnes your ancestor?
-
Hi
If you are sure that the probate record has your ancestor correct then you have the correct W D Barnes/Baines person. I can't see another William Dalton Baines/Barnes born Lincolnshire, nor a plain William Barnes/Baines with parents Faith and Charles.
Some people did change their names slightly for whatever reason. My great grandfather did it to escape from his second wife and one of his sons kept the new name so that branch of the family will never get beyond their grandfather.
-
Hi Crisane,
Once again many thanks for all your help with this problem of mine.
Yes William Henry Barnes (my Great Grandfather) b 1895 Winterton,Lincs, d 1961, he married Harriet Dowse Wild 1913.
His father William Dalton Barnes b 1871 Winterton (my 2x Great Grandfather) he married Emma Jane Parrott/Parratt 6th July 1894 Winterton.
In the 1901 and 1911 census they are still in Winterton in Northlands rd (1901) and Earlsgate (1911)working as Agricultual/Farm Labourer.
This is the final documents i can find with the name Barnes.
On every search on Ancestry after that it seems to be Baines, including the probate and gravestone Picture, I cant find anything on BMD for Barnes either.
Heres the grave stone details also on his wife Emma Jane.
Name: William Dalton Baines
Death Date: 26 Feb 1957
Cemetery: Winterton Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Winterton, North Lincolnshire Unitary Authority, Lincolnshire, England
Has Bio?: N
URL: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-....
The probate i have, is the same as you found and posted on here previously for me, he leaves his estate to his son William Henry and his daughter Dorothy Emily, which is exactly as i have them in my tree.So far so good same children, although this supposedly belongs to William Dalton Baines.
I am in contact with a family member of dorothys husband (frank Ling) and i dont think hes aware of the name change, but i will email him and ask him.
As for this other person i contacted( whos reply has set me on this trail) about William Dalton and his father and mother Charles Barnes and Faith Hannah Kirmen/Kernan/Kennan( all census records on Ancestry seem to have them coming from lincolnshire upton, springthorpe,) hes adamant there Baines as hes given me the exact same info that i have for them except for the fact that my Charles Barnes b 1849 is from Stillingfleet,Yorks, Faith Hannah is from Winterton.
This other person has the following:Charles Baines was my 2 x great uncle who was born in Upton,Lincs.
What is your relationship with Charles Baines and his wife Faith Hannah (Anna) Kirman (Kennan) . This surname has been recorded as Kerman, Kermand Kirman Kennan and even Kirkwood.
So as you can see this is a conundrum for me, im lead to understand people put different places of birth on census records but this doesent help me,with this name change, im not sure whether to ask this person if hes aware Baines is actually Barnes.
along with the pm message you sent me it does seem to look like they are the same people. Like you say they may have been hiding for whatever reason.
Many thanks once again
Debbie ??? ???.
-
Hi guys many thanks for all your help on the above person but it seems i have gone totally wrong on this side of the tree and i need to be looking at totally different line.
I have my grandmothers mother Harriet (Dowse) Wild b 1889 born Glanford Brigg who married William Barnes 1913 Frodingham Scunthorpe.( i thought he was the son of william dalton barnes as original post)but apparently this is not so. hence i now have to find out about this new line begining with William Barnes but i dont know where he comes form or when he was born.
I have contacted local registry office to see what is on the marriage cert for Harriet and William to see whats on it as per his parentage and occupation and birth details.
any help greatly appreciated.
many thanks
Debbie ???
-
Hi Debbie
Doing a basic search I can't see William with Harriet and children on the 1939 register
I think William died June 1/4 1936 registration district Glandford Bridge age 46 so born c1890.
To be absolutely sure of moving back correctly you need the marriage certificate for William and Harriet which will give his father's name unfortunately they won't give you the details without you purchase the certificate.
-
Hi Chrisane
Many thanks i have sent email to scunthorpe registry office about marriage cert so hopefully will hear back from them next week.
I have sent pm to you and many thanks for the research you did for me it was correct.
many thanks
Debbie xx
-
Hi Chrisane.
Just wanted to update you on the marriage cert for William Barnes and Harriet Wild.
If you remember you found a George Barnes living with her as a widow and we both assumed he was maybe a relative of her dead husband William this as know been confirmed from Scunthorpe registry office, Williams father is listed as George on his Marriage cert to Harriet.I am now going to ring up and ask them to send me the certificate in the post.
So the William Dolton Barnes above in subject is the wrong person so regardless of him been Barnes or Baines no longer applies to my searches. I have now deleted him from my tree, and put George Barnes as my Williams father for whom i know have to start again and to go down this line, not sure where to start with this George as i dont have a wife for george as i dont know where he comes from, any ideas greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
Debbie :)
-
Hi Debbie
good that you are getting the marriage certificate because there are quite a few William Barn(e)s with father George. The certificate will give us George's occupation and William's occupation too which will help sort them out from the crowd.
-
Hi Chrisane,
Many thanks for your message im hoping the certificate arrives before i go on holiday next week, if not i will let you know what info it has on when i get back, George as i like you have found loads of William and Georges both locally or nationally, so hopefully more info will be provided the break through required, apparently no mothers names on marriage cert,and not found williams birth as dont no where he was born.
Will be in touch soon
Many thanks once again for all your help
Debbie xxx
-
Hi all an update for my family tree problem above.
Firstly can i say that the original post is know completely wrong, i have know got a Marriage cert for my William Barnes b1890(dont know where) he married Harriet Wild b 1889 Scunthorpe, they was married 29th October 1913 at The Primitive Methodist Church, New Brumby, Scunthorpe.
Williams father was George Barnes Farm Labourer.
Harriets father was James Wild (deceased) Labourer.
Witnesses where Tom Linford Brown (harriets adopted father in 1911 census) and Grace Howell,(dont know who this lady was)
So i have know got the correct info i will endeavour to go and see down this new line.
Any help greatly appreciated,
Many thanks once again
Debbie xx
-
Hi folks,
I am struggling with William Barnes's birth i have 1890 from marriage certificate, unfortunatly im unable to find where born, has i cant find a census for 1901 and 1911 for him with his father George(from Marriage certificate)There are loads for Williams with George as father all over the uk,
I am fairly certain hes not local to scunthorpe where he married and lived till his death. I have checked all online births in scunthorpe, there is none, although i have found 2 births William Herbert Barnes 1890 Grantham and William Victor Barnes 1891 Lincoln, within Lincolnshire.
But i have nothing to say my William had a middle name,there are loads of birth nationally as William Barnes, and loads more on top of those as Williams with Middle names Nationally.
Can anyone suggest any further places to look also i dont know who is mother is as i have not found his father Georges birth, marriage, or any census info, all i know is that george was a Farm labourer on Williams Marrage Cert, although i do have a possible death in 1941 in Scunthorpe where he was living in 1939 War census living with his daughter in law harriet.
many thanks
Debbie xx
-
Hello Debbie
We know that William's father George was born c1865 so when searching the censuses for a William born c1890 we have to match both their ages (+/- 1 year) with their names.
I have just started a quick search of the 1891 census RG12 piece 1239 folio 25 page 15 and there is a George and Mary A Barnes with a son William age 9 months. Mary A and the children born Huntingdonshire, George born Whitchford Cambridge and he is a farm labourer.
The idea is to then follow them to the 1901 and 1911 censuses. If any of the father's named George died prior to 1939 then he is not our man
I will see if there are any other contenders in 1891.
-
Following the Somersham Huntingdonshire William to 1891 they have moved to Yorkshire. The name has been mistranscibed- an r instead of an s and George's occupation has changed to railway plate layer! But Doncaster is only 25 miles from Scunthorpe.
84 Nelson Street Doncaster
George Barner 35
Mary A Barner 32
George Barner 11
William Barner 10 Somersham,
David Barner 9
Sam Barner 6
Cyril Barner 4
Harold Barner 1
William Barner 27 brother
-
1911 George is in Lincolnshire and is a farm labourer. William is not with them but a swag of other children are.
-
Hi Crisane.
Many thanks for this info, i will take a look, as for them living in Doncaster its 30 mins by car from our home town Scunthorpe, and as for the Cambridge and Huntingdonshire connection for the rest thats a complete new area for my family if this is indeed them.
Once again many thanks
Debbie xx
-
Hi Debs,
A bit further back for you with this Family we have;
MARRIAGE;
09 Oct 1859, St Andrew, Witchford, Cambridgeshire
Samuel BARNES, Labourer, Bachelor age 26
Sarah SABERTON, Spinster
Parents;
JOHN Barnes, Labourer
RICHARD Saberton, Labourer
Witnesses- Sarah Ann Barnes/William Peyton
Groom signed X
BAPTISMS, same Church to this couple;
HARRIET ANNN, 19 Aug 1860
RICHARD, 24 Aug 1862
GEORGE, 19 Nov 1865******
WILLIAM, 16 May 1869 (birth 16 Dec 1868), Buried 6 Jan 1873 age 4
SAM, 16 July 1871
WILLIAM, 13 Sept 1874
ANN ELIZABETH, 1 May 1878, Private Baptism, sick, Buried as Annie Elizabeth 6 May age 9 days
CHARLES, 2 Nov 1879
SAMUEL Barnes was Baptised same Church 11 March 1833 to JOHN/SARAH
SARAH Saberon 8 Sept 1839 same Church to RICHARD/ELIZABETH
Sarah Parentss Marriage is on FreeREG;
RICHARD Saberton 1829
All on FreeREG
Also on Census Samuel is married to Elizabeth by 1891 Census, Marriage on FreeBMD Reg 1884 to Elizabeth ALSOP
Trish :)
-
Hi trish,
many thanks for the info you have given me,
i will hold on to it as im not able to confirm as yet that this is the correct family im following im waiting confirmation for a death cert before i progress down the childrens line.
This is due to the fact this family isent local to where i hail from,and ive no other family from down their. So im only doing fact finding at the moment.
I will hopefully know more when i get confirmation of the death cert if her husband is listed as George Barnes,as i know he was alive in the war census 1939 living in scunthorpe with my great grandmother(this info for 1939 census is all i have on George with a son William barnes b1890(my great grandad) and hes down as a widow,and i cant find another death for Mary ann Barnes,in the scunthorpe area.If this all ties together then i have a whole new area to go into and the info you have given me will be great start.i will also know where my William b1890 was born.
once again i thank you for the info youve found heres hoping we are on the right path.
Debbie :D
Once again Many thanks
Debbie xx
-
Hi all just to let you know i have now received the death cert for Mary ann Barnes (nee cooper) mother of the original post William,William was present at death and registered the death also,and George is on the certificate as Husband and occupation matches 1939 census, so looks like im finally on right track with the family we know now came from Huntingdonshire, and landed in my local town via Doncaster in the census's.
May i thanks you for all your help and i have a complete new family line to follow which will be interesting.
Many thanks
Debbie ;D
-
Excellent :)