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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Meath => Topic started by: jo1962 on Friday 23 September 16 14:48 BST (UK)

Title: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: jo1962 on Friday 23 September 16 14:48 BST (UK)
Hi all,
My grandfather was called John Joseph McNally and was born in Meath.  My dad told me his birthday was 7th January, possibly 1905/6. Apparently his parents died when he was very young and he went to live with his paternal grandparents in Dundalk.  I've managed to trace him on the 1911 census living in haggardstown with his widowed grandmother and aunts and uncles. I've also just today found his marriage record in 1933 at St Patricks church, Dundalk to my grandmother Bridie Byrne. His father is listed as John McNally, a labourer; it doesn't say anything about him being deceased.  What I am really stuck with is finding his birth. I've looked at civil registration records (thats how I found his marriage)  but there is no birth that I can see is relevant.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Jo
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: Elwyn Soutter on Friday 23 September 16 15:20 BST (UK)
Apparently his parents died when he was very young and he went to live with his paternal grandparents in Dundalk.  I've managed to trace him on the 1911 census living in haggardstown with his widowed grandmother and aunts and uncles. I've also just today found his marriage record in 1933 at St Patricks church, Dundalk to my grandmother Bridie Byrne. His father is listed as John McNally, a labourer; it doesn't say anything about him being deceased.  What I am really stuck with is finding his birth. I've looked at civil registration records (thats how I found his marriage)  but there is no birth that I can see is relevant.



Jo

Both parents dying young could well be true. But it could also be a euphemism. Sometimes when a child was illegitimate, it was placed with grandparents. The child’s birth would often be registered only under the mother’s name. (With an illegitimate birth the father’s name only appears if he is present at the registration and confirms paternity. Otherwise the mother might possibly name anyone, with obviously awkward consequences later).

Have you searched the indexes under the mother’s surname? Have you searched for a marriage for the parents? Have you searched for their deaths?

With Irish marriage certificates, when the father is dead, it doesn’t always say “deceased” after his name. Some Priests/Ministers did note that information, many did not. I wouldn’t draw any conclusions either way.
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: jo1962 on Friday 23 September 16 15:57 BST (UK)
Hi Elwyn,
Many thanks for your reply.  I did wonder if he was illegitimate...  However I've no way of knowing as I don't know his mothers name.  As he's living with his grandmother and spinster aunts I did wonder if one of them could be the real mother, but without finding a possible birth registration I've no way of knowing.
Cheers, Jo
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: myluck! on Friday 23 September 16 16:02 BST (UK)
FTR

1911 census - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Louth/Haggardstown/Haggardstown/579158/)
1901 census for same family - LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Louth/Haggardstown/Haggardstown/1562511/)

Hugh McNALLY m Mary CLARKE on Nov 09 1862 in Ardee, Co. Louth
This couple had a son John who was born Mar 01 1864

There is a marriage on Nov 27 1897 between a
John McNALLY (Father Hugh) and Mary JOHNSON (Father Patrick)
in Dromiskin, Co. Louth
This I think is them on the 1901 census LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Meath/Tara/Riverstown/1618258/)
This couple had a John Joseph McNALLY in the NAVAN district on Sept 07 1905 Group Reg# 496168
Father shown as John McNALLY Mother shown as JOHNSTON

I don't see them on the 1911 census
Apologies the computer I am at is not allowing me access irishgenealogy.ie to give links
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: dathai on Friday 23 September 16 16:13 BST (UK)
from 1911 census Margaret McNally and John Grant
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1910/09983/5630480

John McNally and Mary Johnson
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10472/5813662

John Joseph
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01764/1694644
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: myluck! on Friday 23 September 16 16:16 BST (UK)
thanks dathai  :)
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: dathai on Friday 23 September 16 16:20 BST (UK)
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Meath/Tara/Riverstown/1618258/
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: dathai on Friday 23 September 16 16:23 BST (UK)
possible birth
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F51C-RBT

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03627/2339174
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: jo1962 on Saturday 24 September 16 11:53 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for your help and the links, you've really given me something to go on  :D
Cheers, Jo
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: myluck! on Sunday 25 September 16 19:51 BST (UK)
Jo1962

I have found nine of the eleven mentioned births in the 1911 census and felt that the birth of John to Hugh McNALLY and Mary CLARKE is correct
You will have to check that the marriage to Mary Johnson/Johnston is then the same man but initial searches seem to imply so
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: jo1962 on Sunday 25 September 16 23:13 BST (UK)
MyLuck many thanks for your help  :) I really was at a dead end with this line but you and other rootchatters have given me so many leads to follow up, and for that I'm so very grateful. I will check it out.
Jo
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: dathai on Monday 26 September 16 12:20 BST (UK)
Anna Mary Grant born just after 1911 census
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01530/1620584
appears to have married age 29 from Ardpatrick  in 1940
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1940/08845/5198577
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: dathai on Monday 26 September 16 13:17 BST (UK)
Joseph Kearney and Christina McNally 1918
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1918/09729/5530161a

possible death for Laurence 1948 age 76 a bachelor of Dublin Rd,Haggardstown
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1949/04552/4201207

Peter 1947 age 76 a bachelor same address
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1947/04591/4215297
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: dathai on Monday 26 September 16 13:58 BST (UK)
Hugh McNally death 1899 age 60 informant daughter Bridget of Haggardstown
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1899/05798/4640512

possibly the mother Mary in Ardee Workhouse 1919 age 77
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05144/4417579
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: myluck! on Monday 26 September 16 14:05 BST (UK)
To follow up

The nine ten children of Hugh McNALLY and Mary CLARKE that I located are:

1 John b. Mar 01 1864
2 Patrick b. Feb 11 1866
3 Laurence b. Jul 31 1868
4 Peter b. Dec 18 1870
5 Margaret (1) b. c1871 d.between 1871 & 1878
6 Mary Anne b. Mar 24 1873 m. Jun 13 1896 Patrick PHILLIPS** LINK 1901 census (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Donadea/Donadea_Demesne/1437250/)
7 Bridget b. Jun 09 1875
8 Catherine b. Apr 22 1877
9 Margaret (2) b. Aug 29 1878 listed on 1901 and 1911 census m. John GRANT May 05 1910
10 Christina b. Dec 24 1886


** Patrick PHILLIPS and MaryAnne McNALLY had at least five children
Peter Castlebellingham Mar 24 1897
John (1) Donadea Sept 22 1897
Margaret Mary Donadea Mar 10 1900
John (2) Donadea May 06 1901 m Alice COLLAN in Ardee Nov 5 1924
Christina Donadea  Mar 13 1903
I cannot see this family in 1911

editted to add children
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: dathai on Monday 26 September 16 15:42 BST (UK)
possible Johnston family
Patt Johnston
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/f1ac3114196751
Anne Callahan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/2bc10b14219459
Mary Johnston born 3rd July 1869 Dromisken To Patrick and Anne Callaghan
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5Z6-YJW

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03385/2241343

siblings note Edward 1878
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ikn/

1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Louth/Dromiskin/Whiterath/1558776/

Jane Gartland niece 1893
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02295/1860943

edited to add Jane 1911
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JJK1-JXM

Michael Gartland and Catherine Johnston 1890
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10700/5900629
Title: Re: Help with finding my grandads birth
Post by: jo1962 on Monday 26 September 16 23:15 BST (UK)
Myluck and Dathai, many, many thanks for all the information.  I feel I've broken down a huge brickwall and I'm so excited to be able to pursue this further. All your help is very much appreciated.
Cheers
Jo  :)