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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: 001uk on Sunday 02 October 16 09:49 BST (UK)
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Hello!
Any ideas please as to the location of the
SELINA JANE ketch
c1912. I have found the ketch SELINA JANE was owned by The Sharpness New Docks and Gloucester and Birmingham Navigation Co. It was built in 1872. There's a distinctive brick warehouse with deeply inset windows alongside. No lettering on the other boats.
In the distance, to the left, are goal posts in a football pitch and possibly a railway bridge.
Could she moored up on the River Severn somewhere?
With thanks~001uk
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Could be on the Sharpness & Gloucester Canal?
Or the Worcester & Birmingham Canal?
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I was wondering about the clearance that a ketch would need - could they go up canals and through locks?
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Could this be her demise ? Sorry its quite a scroll down.
Sharpness Saul junction boatyard ?
http://www.cotswoldcanalsheritage.org.uk/page_id__132.aspx
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I was wondering about the clearance that a ketch would need - could they go up canals and through locks?
The Gloucester & Sharpness Canal was once the broadest and deepest in the world, at 86ft 6in wide and 18ft deep, taking craft of 600 tons (with maximum dimensions 190ft long and 29ft wide).
The original canal was the Gloucester & Berkeley Canal and was big enough to take the largest sea-going ships of the early nineteenth century. The opening of the canal in 1827 enabled Gloucester to develop as an inland port, well placed to serve the growing industrial towns of the Midlands. As the size of ships in world trade increased during the nineteenth century, a large new dock at Sharpness was opened in 1874.
Coaster traffic on the Gloucester & Sharpness Canal (as it was renamed) effectively died out in the 1980s, but Sharpness remains a working port.
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Thanks Hazelbea.
The image (a postcard) post dates the Padstow incident so I'm sure the ketch in the photo was under the ownership of the Sharpness New Docks and Gloucester and Birmingham Navigation Co.
....and thanks KGarrad
SELINA JANE could well be on the Sharpness & Gloucester Canal or Worcester & Birmingham Canal.
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Reading that link from Hazelbea, it saya:
The vessel had been in trouble in the Youghal River through stranding and in September 1910 she was sold to the Sharpness New Docks & Gloucester & Birmingham Navigation Company and ended up as an accommodation vessel for stevedores at Sharpness. In 1926 she was dismantled and taken to the ship graveyard at Purton to act as a breakwater. Her remains can still be seen.
So, looks like she was at Sharpness?
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That's why I thought Sharpness KG. If she was moored accommodation would she still have sails and rigging intact ? Maybe the skippers farewell photo ?
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I was wondering about the clearance that a ketch would need - could they go up canals and through locks?
The Gloucester & Sharpness Canal was once the broadest and deepest in the world, at 86ft 6in wide and 18ft deep, taking craft of 600 tons (with maximum dimensions 190ft long and 29ft wide).
The original canal was the Gloucester & Berkeley Canal and was big enough to take the largest sea-going ships of the early nineteenth century. The opening of the canal in 1827 enabled Gloucester to develop as an inland port, well placed to serve the growing industrial towns of the Midlands. As the size of ships in world trade increased during the nineteenth century, a large new dock at Sharpness was opened in 1874.
Coaster traffic on the Gloucester & Sharpness Canal (as it was renamed) effectively died out in the 1980s, but Sharpness remains a working port.
I was wondering more about the likelihood of it being the Worcester to Birmingham Canal - I thought that at least some of the locks were only 7ft wide, and I assumed that the ketch would be wider than that :-\
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Strange thing is, that Youghal is in County Cork, Ireland.
And that is where she was stranded.
She was sold to the Sharpness New Docks & Gloucester & Birmingham Navigation Co. in 1910, and dismantled in 1926.
If she had been stranded, was she in a fit state to be used under sail, or did she become an accommodation vessel straightaway?
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There is a newspaper article listing imports and exports from Gloucester Docks for week ending 24th August 1911, which gives the Selina Jane travelling to Ilfracombe with 76 tonnes of coal - so if it is the same ketch, then it seems she was in use still.
(From Gloucester Journal)
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Yes Spidermonkey, she must have been sailable otherwise why buy her only to leave her in County Cork ?
She probably worked for a few years then accommodation at Sharpness then dismantled at Purton, not far away ?
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Stranded doesn't mean wrecked. She could quite easily have grounded on a firm surface without significant damage to the hull.
As to location, not only is the Sharpness canal a ship canal but the Severn is navigable by small going vessels at the right state of the tide as far as Worcester. The Worcester and Birmingham basin at Worcester is accessible to boats of 14 foot beam to transfer cargo but the canal itself is a narrow canal.
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The May 24th 1913 newspaper reports of the half yearly meeting of the Gloucester Dock Co make reference to a refit of the Selina Jane "some two or three years ago" to give her comfortable sleeping accommodation, as she often carried 40 or 50, up to 70 men to Northwick to lighten vessels there.
It's not such a huge jump from having comfortable sleeping accommodation to being lodgings for stevedores.
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....and ended up as an accommodation vessel for stevedores at Sharpness.
So, looks like she was at Sharpness?
Hi KGarrad
She did indeed up as an accommodation vessel .
However, the image isn't Sharpness Docks. it maybe near Sharpness but the postcard pre dates 1926. (It isn't used but the style of card on the reverse and general "feel" of the PC to me suggests pre WWII)
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If she had been stranded, was she in a fit state to be used under sail, or did she become an accommodation vessel straightaway?
"Stranded" in nautical terms could mean as little as: "A sailing ship caught in the Doldrums can be stranded due to lack of wind"
In which case after complete rest she could easily have made it back to Sharpness and carried on sailing until the 1920s
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as she often carried 40 or 50, up to 70 men to Northwick to lighten vessels there.
Northwick is at Worcester upstream of the canal junction so should could be there or at any quay on the river.
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There is a newspaper article listing imports and exports from Gloucester Docks for week ending 24th August 1911, which gives the Selina Jane travelling to Ilfracombe with 76 tonnes of coal - so if it is the same ketch, then it seems she was in use still.
(From Gloucester Journal)
Spidermonkey...well found & good point. I believe you can only have the one name registered for a vessel of the same type. Different if a steamship is named SJ but I stand corrected. At least the date fits nicely in. So, the area widens!
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Yes Spidermonkey, she must have been sailable otherwise why buy her only to leave her in County Cork ?
She probably worked for a few years then accommodation at Sharpness then dismantled at Purton, not far away ?
I agree! See image of distance between Sharpness & Purton
The BIG question is just WHERE is that warehouse? it's substantial enough to be standing still. I'll phone a friend.
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I can see no sign that the masts on the ketch are foldable or removable, without the mast removed she would not get very far up the Severn from Gloucester, it might be that after conversion to sleeping accommodation she was towed up to Worcester with the masts removed
Mike
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http://www.friendsofpurton.org.uk/purtonthevessels.html#S
don't know if this is of any interest ... shows the "last resting place of the Selina Jane"
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The position of the Purton hulks is best seen from the air. They are in the river - sort of - rather than the canal.
(Satellite pic) http://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.736701,-2.45635,18z,0t
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Good morning,
I think the photo is taken when she was still a working ship. Had she already been made an accommodation ship she would have no need of a tender and the masts would most likely have been unstepped. The sails would most certainly have been removed for use on another ship.
Her primary trade was probably in the Bristol channel given that she was rescued by the Padstow lifeboat. Whilst she could have gone as far as Gloucester it would be via the river rather than the canal. She doesn't have fold down masts which would be needed to pass under the bridges over the canal. No bridges on the river downstream of Gloucester until the Severn bridges were built.
I have a friend in Devon who has a masters ticket for sail. I will ask how easy it would be to take a ship under sail up and down the river given how twisty it is.
John915
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I think the photo is taken when she was still a working ship. Had she already been made an accommodation ship she would have no need of a tender and the masts would most likely have been unstepped. The sails would most certainly have been removed for use on another ship.
Her primary trade was probably in the Bristol channel given that she was rescued by the Padstow lifeboat. Whilst she could have gone as far as Gloucester it would be via the river rather than the canal. She doesn't have fold down masts which would be needed to pass under the bridges over the canal. No bridges on the river downstream of Gloucester until the Severn bridges were built.
Thank you John915 for your expert opinion. I agree with you. The photo is whilst she was still working (c1912). Your other interesting obs noted
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The canal from Sharpness to Gloucester canal was built specifically to allow vessels to avoid a narrow, twisting, dangerous section of the river, and where vessels were likely to ground at certain times of the year.
I think she was likely working between Gloucester and Sharpness, and down the Bristol Channel.
IMHO I don't think the picture was taken on the Channel.
So that leaves us with the Gloucester-Sharpness canal?
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The canal has swing bridges to allow large vessels thro, my thought is that she is moored on the sharpness canal and very likely near one of the bridges, otherwise the photographer would have had a very long walk to take the photo from the non towpath side.
Mike
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Looking again at the photo she is definitely moored in a canal or dock rather than a river. One of the wharves along the Gloucester and Sharpness Canal seems the most likely although Lydney just across the severn is an outside possibility.