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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Doddie on Thursday 06 October 16 15:26 BST (UK)
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Have recently embarked on a diversionary line of research. I am interested in discovering the family background of the man I knew (when a little boy) as my Blackpool born paternal grandfather, an affectionate man. He was in reality my dad's stepfather. Harold Shiers was my grandmother's second husband who she married in 1946. I have followed Harold's line back. His father was Solomon (known as Saul) Shiers born in Manchester in 1862. He married a local Manchester girl who was C. of E. Harold's grandfather was Jacob Shiers born in Austria in 1837. As far as I can gather he moved to England just before 1860 with his wife Annie. I am interested in finding out about Harold's Jewish roots. Does any one know what online genealogical records there are for Austria. Also, is Shiers a typically Jewish surname or would Jaocob have 'anglicised' his surname to appear more British? I would dearly like to put more meat on the bones of my 'grandfather's' life even though there is no blood connection with him.
Regards
Doddie
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Just wondering if Jacob was related to Adolph Shiers, also from Austria, also living in the Manchester area from around the same time. His naturalisation papers are at TNA http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7312641
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Hi ShaunJ, certainly food for thought. Could be an older brother. Will investigate further.
Regards
Doddie
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Adolph and family migrated to the US in the 1870's but son Raphael stayed behind. Per the 1891 census (Raphael Sheirs, 35, Salford) he was born in "Crachow", Austria. Presumably that is Krakow, now part of Poland.
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www.geneanet.org
Adolph Shiers b 1831 - 1871 Cathedral Church , Cheetham , Manchester
wife Bertha Shiers.
do you have an occupation for Raphael ??
I wonder if he moved to Liverpool ?? and became Ralph ?? or maybe this is Raphaels son ?? it was the name Bertha Shiers / Shires that caught my eye - maybe named after his mum / nan
Baptism: 15 Feb 1905 St Augustine, Everton, Lancashire, England
Bertha Shires - [Child] of Ralph Shires & Mary Ann
Abode: 3 College St East
Occupation: Chair Maker
of course all this could just be coincidence - but 2 females named Bertha Shires -- on freebmd that 1905 birth is spelt Shiers .
I know this is going a little off track - but do you recognise any of the Christian names that might make a connection from Solomon/Saul/ Jacob to Adolph .....
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I wonder if he moved to Liverpool ?? and became Ralph ??
Raphael did move to Liverpool and in the 1901 census he is a chair maker. I think that 1905 baptism must be a child of his son Ralph.
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Thanks Shaun - I thought it might have been Raphael and he anglicised his name to Ralph ...but if it's his son Ralph at least it is another name to try and make a connection to Adolph via Saul - something more for Doddie to research if they want to - 2 Shiers from Austria has to be researched to see if they were brothers ??
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Have obtained a copy of Harold's grandfather's marriage certificate. Jacob Shiers married Annie Finger in the synagogue on Cheetham Hill Road, Manchester in August of 1860. Jacob's father's first name is quite hard to read. Having done a Google search of Jewish first names I think it might have been Peretz. As it appears on the certificate the name definitely ends in a 'z'. Peretz was a tallis maker by profession. I am going to try and see if further 'digging' helps me find more about the family's Austrian background.
Regards
Doddie
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tallis maker
Possibly a tallit maker? See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallit
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Yes, my mistake. A typo. It also states that Jacob was a "Fringe weaver". I think this may refer to the tzitzits, the woven fringes of a tallit which have a religious significance.
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Harrold was my great uncle, he lived in Leigh with his sister and my father. I know little about his marital status, I notice you say he was the second husband of your grandmother. What was her name? I am interested in any information you have about him and his household. The 1939 register shows that there was another Shiers in the house. her name is given a Marrissa aged 74 but i have not come across anyone of that name, it could of course be an error.
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Marrissa
Looks more like "Mary A" to me.
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The 1939 register shows that there was another Shiers in the house
Also in the same household in 1939 are Harold's sister Vera Grenelli and his nephew Leonard Shiers.
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Granted the wrting in the register is not clear, the transcription gives her as Marissa, but as far as i have gone there is no Mary A in the family either.
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Yes the Nephew Leonard was my father, who lived with Harold. I believe that Vera Grenelli was as you say Harold's sister, I found a marriage of Vera to a Frank Grenelli, but no notification of divorce or death. A Frank Grenelli did appear later as married to a Vivienne Snowball . dont know if it is the same one as married to Vera.
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I am wondering if "Marisa" is actually Harold's mother Amelia.
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Would be about the right age. Amelia was born in 1866 in 1939 she would have been 73
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Hello David, pleased to get your reply. Harold Shiers married my grandmother Edith Alice Wilson (nee Prescott) in 1946, three years after the death of her first husband James Robert Wilson (a grocery store manager). They lived in Granville Street in Leigh. There were no children from the marriage as both were by then in their mid forties. I am not sure how they met, perhaps in relation to Harold's job as an insurance clerk (at least that is what my dad said he was). I haven't got my paperwork to hand just now so I am unable to let you have all the information that you may be interested in. One thing is bothering me. At some point I came across a reference to Harold's grandfather Jacob being born in Silesia but have misplaced the relevant source of information. The 1861 and 1871 censuses have his birthplace as Austria. I need to brush up on my European history.
Regards
Doddie
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thanks Doddie
that fills in another gap in my knowledge of the family. I lived in Leigh from 1948-1962 but had very little dealings with my father's family. I have Jacob coming from Austria, but further information seems to suggest that he came from Galicia which was the Austrian occupied part of Poland. difficult to establish the correct origin.
Now you mention your gramdmothers name as being Edith, that does ring a bell and they lived at no.8 I have very few pictures of the Shoers branch of the family, but I have one of Harold appearing on Criss Cross quiz on television, and one of him and a lady (Your grandmother ??) at my parents' wedding.
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Hi David, I have a couple of those quiz show photos too. Taken as the family were watching the TV in the sitting room. A very popular show, so I understand. Harold died in 1973. It's funny the things you remember. In later years he suffered a moderate stroke and lost the use of one of his arms. This did not stop him developing a new party trick. He liked a smoke and preferred roll-ups. He learnt to roll a cigarette with one hand and loved demonstrating this to me and my brother with a magicians flourish! The household consisted of Harold, Edith and her sons Robert and Brian (my father), both now deceased.
I wish I could remember where I saw the written reference to his grandfather's birth in Silesia. It's not like me to not to make copies of information.
Regards
Doddie
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I have quite a lot of information about the Shiers family of Blackpool and Manchester. This is my first time on Roots Chat and I don't know the best way to exchange information with you. Apparently I am not supposed to publicise my e-mail address on the site.
Can you phone me on 0788 162 8433
Kind regards
Geoffrey Weisgard, (Manchester)
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Hi Geoffrey, thanks for getting in touch. I will give you a call at the earliest opportunity. I am at work just now but will try tommorrow.
Regards
Doddie
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David, coincidence upon coincidence. My brother and I were down near Penrith lately continuing to clear out my father's house (he passed away towards the end of last year). I came across two things of interest. One was a British War Medal belonging to my step-grandfather. It turns out he served with the Royal Army Medical Corps during the First World War. I will be investigating this further. Secondly, I discovered an old battered photo album containing lots of photos from the 'Shiers period' of my dad's family. Thankfully my dad at some point went through the album writing all sorts of helpful information next to many of the photos. They include one of your father Leonard on his wedding day standing next to your mother and a rather impressive wedding cake. In another section of the album are two photos taken, I think, in the garden at Granville Street. Featured in the photos (according to my dad's annotation) are Harold's sister Sybil and brother Jack who are pictured in one instance with Harold and the other with my dad. The album is rather fragile and I have yet to have a more thorough look at the photos. Although, as I say, Harold was not a direct blood relative I still view him as my grandfather and as a family history enthusiast I am finding this of area of research very rewarding.
Regards
Doddie
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Hi Geoffrey, apologies for not having got round to contacting you. The last week became very busy. I will try to contact you at the earliest opportunity.
Regards
Doddie
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Hi Doddie
Amazing what turns up whe nyou least expect it.
Hope the album sheds some more light on your family and mine as well.
I would appreciate any information you glean from the album etc. Maybe you could even let me have scans of the relevant photographs to add to my collection, which is actually quite sparse. As i sais i have a picture of Harold on TV but havn't got any of other members of his family, except one taken on my father's wedding day outside the church? Which again you are welcome to a scan of it.
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Hi Doddie
I did know that Harold was in the Army medical corps and served as a private, there is a record of his receiving a medal in the militasry records.
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Hi Doddie
how are you getting on with the photo album you found? Unearthed any other informtion about that era?
Dave
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Hi Dave, tech not my best I'm afraid. Hope things work. Have put 3 photos in one scan. Hope the outcome is okay. Two wedding photos and one of my step-grandfather with Sybil and Jack. Tried to send as part of a personal message but does not seem to have 'Attachments and other options' feature so have sent as part of main thread. Hope you don't mind.
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Thanks for the photos. I have never seen any of my mothers wedding until after she died. I belived the other male in the wedding photo is Alfred Shiers, Harold and Lens' father. The bridesmaid is Connie, cant remeber her last name though. I have tried to attached the only wedding photo i have. but can send large files will try another way. if you get it maybe you can say whothe lady standing next to Harold s ? Is it Edith?
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Hi, Iv came across your posts on here about the Shiers family. These are my Great great great uncles an auntys you are talking about (Jack and Sybil) my grandad is thier nephew.