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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: poetess2016 on Saturday 08 October 16 18:34 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I kindly ask to receive any information you might have about the heraldic coats of arms belonging to a Mr. James Crichton Pain, as well as about the person himself. Please see attached image for details (a paste-down from a book c.1861). Your assistance will be appreciated!
-Sharon
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Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
The only James Crichton Pain I can find was born in 1895?
The coat-of-arms is either a blue shield, or a green shield.
(It depends on which system of "hatching", or representing colours in monochrome, was used)
The bar across, or fess, is gold/yellow.
The animals are 3 leopards heads couped (i.e. cut cleanly).
The blazon would read either:
azure, a fess or, between 3 leopards heads couped.
or
vert, a fess or, between 3 leopards heads couped.
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Is that the George Cross (Malta) Medal?
Skoosh.
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The George Cross has plain arms, so it's not that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Cross
EDIT: It's the Military Cross
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Cross
Originally created on 28th December 1914.
So the 1895 birth is looking a good fit! ;D
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There's a George Cross version with four crowns on the arms. Google George Cross, pictures.
Skoosh.
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Motto - Better to die than be dishonoured.
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There's a George Cross version with four crowns on the arms. Google George Cross, pictures.
Skoosh.
If you're looking at a picture of 3 medals, they are George Cross, OBE, and Military Cross.
The George Cross has a dark blue ribbon.
The Military Cross has 3 equal stripes of white, purple and white.
(The OBR has a red ribbon, edged with thin white stripes)
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The only recipients of the Military Medal likely to fit are:
Rollo Pain (aka Lt. Gen. Sir Horace Rolla Squarey Pain)
and
Captain Leonard Allan Payne
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Hi everyone,
Thank you for supplying me with all the interesting details regarding the coats of arms!
Since posting my message, I was able to look up some genealogical information about Mr. James Crichton Pain, to whom the crest belonged. And it so happens that Mr. Pain celebrates his 121st birthday today, so here is a summary of what I could find about him:
A cursory search online revealed Mr. James, born 10 october 1895 (baptised 13 October 1895), was a decendant of the Plantagenet blood line, worked as a solicitor, and at the age of 28 married a woman named Anna Petrorna Tiedemann (aged 19). Their marriage took place on 04 September 1924 in the remote Tientsin, China.
The Latin motto "Malo Mori Quam Foedari," roughly translates into "Death Before Dishohonor." Suitably enough, it was associated with law enforcement and peacekeepers, just like dear old James had been.
I am unsure James and Anna had any children, as I did not inquire any further. However, it seems that the Payne family lineage goes a long way back, having originated in Ireland and having descendants living in both the UK, the US and other places.
-Sharon
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There is a Medal Index card for a J.C. Pain recording his qualification for the 1914/15 Star. Theatre of War given as "France", qualifying date 17-9-15. It also has the note "M.C." without further detail.
He is listed as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Intelligence Corps and then as a Lieutenant in the 2/10 Scots Guards.
Oddly, I have been unable to find any of the London Gazette entries for his Commission, promotion, or decoration, but the Gazette search can be erratic at times.
There are also details on Ancestry of what appears to be his membership of several Masonic Lodges in the Far East in the 1920s, by which time his occupation has become Sales Representive.
He certainly seems to have led an interesting life.
Maec
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Hi Maec,
Thank you for providing further information about J. C. Having shifted from what seems as a successful military career to working as a sales representative does make one wonder... Someone at a different forum advised me Mr. J. C. may have gone bankrupt at one point in his life, which might explain him becoming a salesperon:
"There is a record of his dad having a BA from Cambridge looks like he may have been a Lawyer. Also think he went bankrupt."
I wonder if James had any children if he has any descendants who live nowadays. Will be interesting to know if and what legacy he left behind which currently remains 🙂
-Sharon
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Dear Sharon,
I have just seen this post.
James Crichton Pain was my Great Uncle. His sister Mary Henrietta Pain was my Grandmother. James's father was John Athill Pain 1864 1899, James is described as a Gentleman when he was a witness to my grandparents wedding in Aspley Guise in 1919. They lived at Woodlands, Woburn Sands, Beds which still stands. Neither men were declared bankrupt, the family money came from service in the East India Company.
James served in the Devonshire Regiment and his MC was an immediate award at the first Battle of Ypres. He later fought for the White Russians and married a Russian, they had no children. We have several pictures of him in France and I met his wife as a child.
We are looking for his medals which were stolen with his effects following his death in London (Ironically Devonshire Place, W1). We would be very grateful for a good copy of his book plate which you now have and any information about where you found it.
Thank you,
George Woodruff
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Dear Sharon,
I would like to thank Maec who found that my Great Uncle was transferred to the 2/10 Scots (not The Scots Guards but The Royal Scots, or the 1st Linlithgowshire Rifle Volunteers) for the 1918 Archangel Campaign in Northern Russia. We have photographs of him there but we did not know the regiment. He must have just come back from the Northern Dvina when he went to my Grandmother's wedding.
We used to think he stayed on in Russia but it is more likely he worked for a Hong Kong Trading House and met Anna Tiedemann, who happened to be Russian, in China
Best,
George
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I attach a photograph of James (Jimmy) Pain taken in France in 1916 with his brother officers in the Devonshires. Porthos and Athos were killed.