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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: fizz83 on Tuesday 25 October 16 13:36 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Im hoping there are a few people on here who know a little more about the dna testing than myself and are able to help.
I just got my results back, 50% European West, 31% Irish 12%Great Britain - (with a small percentage of 4 other traces).
Now all my research so far, going back on some lines into the 1500's, i have English ancestors right through, with the odd irish/welsh/Scotsman. I'm saying about 90% English so far on my tree.
The results have definitely thrown me, as there are certainly no links to abroad... i might add too my dads side are all quite darker skinned /toned and certainly not typically -british' looking. I myself am very very olive with dark features.i was hoping dna may have given a clue to that...
Is it just that the European West is so far back i wont discover it? Or with it being such a great number (50%!) Is it likely there is something i have missed closer home?
I would love anyones thoughts :)
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Your results are not unusual although can be a bit of a shock at first. For an explanation why have a look at a couple of the short films on the Ancestry site that should put your mind at rest.
The Ancestry Academy has a number of short films that explain DNA and ethnicity. You can see the titles here
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/academy/course/ancestry-dna-101
The Ancestry Academy is found under the Extras tab at the top of the Ancestry home page
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If you go to Ancestry's DNA page, click on where it says Full Ethnicity Estimate, and click on each section, you will see what area they cover. For example, under Europe West, it says "Primarily located in: Belgium, France, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein Also found in: England, Denmark, Italy, Slovenia, Czech Republic".
Unfortunately, it's not yet an exact science.
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Do you have royalty lines? Since there was intermarrying between countries at least of royalty and sometimes royalty was not actually from the country they ruled we can have ancestors that lived in a country but who have DNA from somewhere else.
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Thanks all for your replies.
I have watched the videos and read the Estimates in full when I first received my results, I guess it will just be that the European West lines are beyond the papertrail, but I will keep on the hunt!
bther: No, I have no royalty lines in my tree - but Im sure that does explain things for a lot of people :)
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Thanks all for your replies.
I have watched the videos and read the Estimates in full when I first received my results, I guess it will just be that the European West lines are beyond the papertrail, but I will keep on the hunt!
bther: No, I have no royalty lines in my tree - but Im sure that does explain things for a lot of people :)
A lot of the results come from way back beyond the paper trail. There was a lot of emigration into the UK from elsewhere in Europe in the past Also because what we inherit from our grandparents rarely works out 25% each and multiplying that across the generations we can inherit quite a bit from one ancestor and nothing from another. A relatively small percentage of your ancestors will show up in your DNA when looked at over a lot of generations.
My paper trail stretches from Cromarty to Rochadle (furthest South) yet I too have West European, my mum has Greek and Cacasus also (I didn't inherit this bit). I find it a bit sad that it's likely I'll never know where that came from but it's likely to be far back.
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So the odds are that the non-British DNA is on your father's side.
I guess one other explanation for the unexpected DNA is that somewhere along the line the father on paper wasn't actually the one who did the deed! Our trees are only as accurate as the paper trail they follow. I'm aware of one area of my tree where the mother ran off with her lodger- the child born 9 months later was attributed to the lodger but luckily it was recent enough for photos to show otherwise (quite clearly, too!) Who knows what people got up to in the past but as much as we'd like to think it, it's unlikely that 100% of all our ancestors were faithful.
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So the odds are that the non-British DNA is on your father's side.
I guess one other explanation for the unexpected DNA is that somewhere along the line the father on paper wasn't actually the one who did the deed! Our trees are only as accurate as the paper trail they follow. I'm aware of one area of my tree where the mother ran off with her lodger- the child born 9 months later was attributed to the lodger but luckily it was recent enough for photos to show otherwise (quite clearly, too!) Who knows what people got up to in the past but as much as we'd like to think it, it's unlikely that 100% of all our ancestors were faithful.
It's so true I have a guy in my original birth certificate who I know isn't my bio as I'm of olive skin, brown eyes, dark hair . I met my half sister & brother 4 years ago all from the same mother none of us know are real fathers yet I am a mirror image of my sister we are the only ones with the brown eyes, hair, skin etc mum is pale skinned, blue eyes as is the so called bio father on my birth certificate even our brothers are Blonde hair,blue eyes,pale skinned.. It's a mystery a lot of secrets went on in the past especially when a unmarried pregnancy accrued....
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Cuckoo in the nest is one possibility as mentioned. Sadly it happens more than you realise. A study done a few years back reckoned that as many as 1 in 5 families had a cuckoo in the nest without the male partner knowing about it.
Other explanations include the war years..when a lot of men where away fighting the wives sought comfort/financial support/excitement.
Also immigration too various countries in the early years with partners disappearing to seek there fortune.
Factor in the old master and chambermaid scenario, as in the olden days dole did not exist and people had to go into service living away from home treat like a slave.
lots of variables.
The thing to note about the british DNA sample by ancestry is still VERY small compared to USA as more people from this country take it then the results will change including yours
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Fizz, I had a similarish result.
My research so far, sometimes back to 1500s shows nearly all my ancestors are English about 98%. However my DNA result was 38% Western Europe, 30% Britain 21% Ireland 11% Trace (mostly North Europe).
First reaction, giving I consider myself almost 100% English supported by much research, why does Ancestry DNA only find me as 30% British ?
The answer is partly due to the time period, ie DNA goes back much further. When we think family history we focus mainly on last 200 years, for DNA we need to think last 2000 years and historical events. In my case one of my great grandfather's was believed to be descended from Huguenots and they turned up in the Fenland area in 1500's.. that line of the family has been traced back that far, but just short of the Huguenots arriving in England. Also this great grandfather married his second cousin who descended from the same line, which effectively doubles my density of Huguenot Ancestry.
We must also remember the Normans. Another of my family lines can be traced via a 6 x great-grandfather back to King Edward I and therefore William I. I expect just about every "English man or woman" carried a degree of Norman DNA.
I can therefore understand my percentage of Western Europe as a result of previous migrations into Britain. I am more surprised at my Irish 21% as I am yet to find an Irish ancestor and over history Ireland has not really been invaded. There has of course been quite a bit of people movement between Ireland and Britain for many centuries, so that is probably the explanation. Phil.
:) :) ;)
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Ancestry's use of Irish includes Scottish, Welsh and Celtic. So a fairly wide area covered.;
https://www.ancestry.com/dna/ethnicity/irish
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Your results are quite consistent with a genealogy that is 98% English. Most English people get percentages of these three components in varying proportions. The labels shouldn't be taken literally. Ancestry can't distinguish between Northern European countries. I also come out at 20% Irish at AncestryDNA despite only having one Irish ggg grandparent. I've found that most English people come out with a sizeable percentage of this "Irish" cluster.
See these blog posts from AncestryDNA which show the distribution of the various percentages throughout Britain and Ireland:
https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/03/16/what-does-our-dna-tell-us-about-being-irish/ (https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/03/16/what-does-our-dna-tell-us-about-being-irish/)
https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/04/10/exploring-our-dna-europe-west/ (https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/04/10/exploring-our-dna-europe-west/)
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Devon Cruwys, thank you, these two blogs are very helpful.
Based on the distribution of my own English Ancestry, if I was " average" I would expect about 21% West Europe DNA and 18% Irish DNA. My result of 38% West Europe helps confirm the previous well researched link back to my Huguenot ancesters. My Irish at 21% versus 18% average is probably not statistically significant and may just be down to the randomness of the percentages we inherit from each generation.
Learning all the time on DNA. At the moment I really just see it as "supporting evidence" to the real paper trail based genealogy which takes all my time! It would be good if the Ancestry DNA regions were smaller to give more granularity, maybe that is for the future.
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Phil, There are wide variations above and below those average percentages. At one extreme I've seen British people come out with 0% British at AncestryDNA. I did come across one very unusual person who came out at 100% British! if you look in detail at your Ancestry results you'll see they give you a comparison with local populations and the range of percentages.
You can't take your above average level of West Europe as evidence of Huguenot ancestry. If you Huguenot ancestry was five or six generations back it's not necessarily going to be represented in your DNA anyway. The best indicator of Huguenot ancestry would be matches with genetic cousins who share your same line of descent. However, AncestryDNA don't currently sell their test in France so you would be hoping for matches with other British people who share your Huguenot ancestors.
You can see some AncestryDNA results here for a French man from Brittany:
http://legall-bzh.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/la-genetique-le-cas-ancestry.html
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My AncestryDNA results came out 97% Europe and 3% West Asia (Middle East). I don't have any quarrel with that 97% Europe as I'm from the north east of England and I have a Welsh father.
Within that 97% Europe apparently I am 36% Irish which I have to read as Welsh since my Dad and a couple of hundred years and probably more of Welsh forebears would bear this out.
My Mam's family are from the north of England (Cumbria, Northumberland, Durham and Yorkshire back to the early 1700s).
The Middle East bit has me thinking, so unless this is really, really ancestral (where I would've suspected a trace rather than 3%) does anyone have any ideas?
RuthieB
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Ruthieb if you look on each population e.g. Great Britain and scroll down the page you will see a green bar chart. This shows you other populations that can get picked up in the populations you match. I can't see any affinity to the Middle East for Great Britain, Ireland, Scandinavian or Europe West so it could be picking up on something. But if you match say Italy/Greece or Iberian Peninsula then they can get as much as 41% Middle East so it could be connected to that.
I get 3% Europe Jewish and reading up on it 1% is a score seen in people who match Great Britain. The white paper says that Jewish is very reliably detected and 2 Brits out of 195 got a score of some sort. They seem to group this with the results they got from Londoners so I'm guessing it's due to how diverse London is.
So for me my Jewish is slightly higher than what could be considered typical. My Dad has tested at 23andme and he gets above average scores of Eastern European and gets Middle Eastern and Jewish so that supports what Ancestry says about my results. At Gedmatch me and my Dad both share above average scores for East Med/West Asian/Red Sea regions and this is reflected in the chromosome paintings they show there. I can compare Dad's segments as 23andme shows you where on your chromosomes you match populations. Ancestry doesn't but I would say upload your raw data to Gedmatch and look for clues using the ethnicity estimates there. Compare your results to as many Brits as you can and you will soon see what is typical and what's not.
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How do I get hold of the raw data? I can't see any link on Ancestry to do that!
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Instructions for downloading from Ancestry are here:
https://www.gedmatch.com/gedwiki/index.php?title=Ancestry.Com_DNA_Upload
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture
Bell Beaker has been suggested as a candidate for an early Indo-European culture; more specifically, an ancestral proto-Celtic.[89] Mallory has more recently suggested that the Beaker culture was associated with a European branch of Indo-European dialects, termed "North-west Indo-European", ancestral to not only Celtic but equally Italic, Germanic and Balto-Slavic.[90]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans
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Hello fizz I have 90% Irish 5% IBERIAN I come from a family of six 3 have dark hair dark skin etc Just like my dad coming from CORK WHERE THE SPANISH LANDED! So all options open lol
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I agree that ancestry DNA results can be surprising - I've just got mine back - I was expecting about 80% British, 15% Irish and 5% of trace regions, as I know I have a bit of Irish but all my other lines going back hundreds of years are all English.
However, my ancestry DNA results were:
40% Great Britain (I expected this to be much higher)
24% Scandinavian (this was a huge shock, I have no idea where that has come from)
17% Western European (again, this was a bit of a surprise)
15% Irish (expected)
4% Iberian Peninsula (again, another surprise)
Now I'm even more intrigued to trace more of my ancestry, and it really makes you feel like a person of the world!
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I agree that ancestry DNA results can be surprising - I've just got mine back - I was expecting about 80% British, 15% Irish and 5% of trace regions, as I know I have a bit of Irish but all my other lines going back hundreds of years are all English.
However, my ancestry DNA results were:
40% Great Britain (I expected this to be much higher)
24% Scandinavian (this was a huge shock, I have no idea where that has come from)
17% Western European (again, this was a bit of a surprise)
15% Irish (expected)
4% Iberian Peninsula (again, another surprise)
Now I'm even more intrigued to trace more of my ancestry, and it really makes you feel like a person of the world!
I read an article that said that a large proportion people with ancestry in either Ireland or up the Western side of UK had 3-7% Iberian DNA showing up in tests due to migration patterns just after the ice age so it is a throw back to some very early ancestors in many cases.
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That's rather interesting, I didn't think DNA that far back would be in big enough proportion to show up on tests.
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That's rather interesting, I didn't think DNA that far back would be in big enough proportion to show up on tests.
Often DNA won't but there can be what is referred to as "sticky sections" ie portions that have changed little over a long period of time.
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That's rather interesting, I didn't think DNA that far back would be in big enough proportion to show up on tests.
Often DNA won't but there can be what is referred to as "sticky sections" ie portions that have changed little over a long period of time.
That certainly could explain the Iberian Peninsula trace region in that case, thank you for letting me know about that :)
I'm currently trying to figure out where the 24% Scandinavian DNA percentage has come from - could it be possible that it is all from the Viking era? A lot of my family are from Yorkshire in England, many coming from the same villages throughout hundreds of years - I'm wondering if the Viking DNA hasn't been 'polluted', so to speak, and hence that's why I carry such a large percentage.
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Hello fizz I have 90% Irish 5% IBERIAN I come from a family of six 3 have dark hair dark skin etc Just like my dad coming from CORK WHERE THE SPANISH LANDED! So all options open lol
You may be of Egyptian descent. First of all the dominant ydna in Britain is R1b1a2 and this is as high as 98% in Connaught. This is the same ydna as found in the 18th Dynasty Egyptian mummies. Egyptian skeletal remains - dolichcephalous skulls - wearing Egyptian faience jewellery have been found in Irish Barrows which also have the Egyptian Solar ship in at least one barrow. But it is the legends I find most convincing. The Tuath Dedanaan have to be named after Egyptian Duat and Tatanen as they have the same meaning. But much more, the legend about the Blood Feud between brothers Brian, IUchar, IUcharba against Kian. The last three are all names of Egyptian Kings and Brian therefore has to be the Pharaoh Ma'ibre who was also listed by Manethos as 'Baion' but better known as 'Abram'. IUchar is Horus with the IU (Yah Weh or Jew) God Name, IUcharba is the King YYcheber - Abel with the IU god name prefix, and Kian is the Egyptian King Khyan who is usually listed after YYcheber.
There is a definite 'Egyptian' look in the faces of many Irish people I have met or seen in films or on TV - Milo O'Shea being one example.
There could be some Spanish, but it is much more likely to have come from Egyptian occupation of the British Isles - Egyptian ships found at Ferriby on the Humber Estuary in 1939, the Gold Mold Cape found in Wales, the Ankh sign found all over Western Europe and many in France.
They would have gone to the Isles originally to get Copper and Tin. Then as often happens they stayed.
There is also the legend about the Princess Scota going from Egypt to Britain and giving her name to the Scots. If true this would have to be the God Name 'Skhety'.
Malcolm