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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: bitzar on Sunday 30 October 16 07:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi team
I'm looking for anything on the above fellow. G**gle has him at that address in the 1830-1840's! I cant see him on the 1841 or 1851. I have a possible (actually probable... same occupation and street at his marriage in 1841) son for him who I don't want to mention yet incase I'm not correct so I thought I might try to work in the other direction.
Looks like this George was quite well known for his trade in London. Hob nobs noted him as 'The best Poulterer in London'!
tia,
bitzar.
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The address of George Fisher's business was 23 Duke Street per the 1841,1843 and 1846 PO Directories. By the time of the 1848 Directory, John Fisher, poulterer was listed at that address.
I can see John Fisher & family at number 23 in the 1851 census but George is not there.
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Thanks ShaunJ
That's them, and John is the probable son. I cant find John and the family on the 1841. Can you tell me who else is at the residence. Hopefully John's wife Emma as they were married earlier in 1841. I'd like to know who else?!?!
tia, bitzar
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John Fisher baptism 25 January 1818 at St James Westminster:
Born 29 December 1817, father George, poulterer, mother Sarah, abode Piccadilly.
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1841
HO 107/736/4 folio 10 page 9
Duke Street ( St James, Westminster)
George Levens (?) 55 Ind (name is hard to read but doesn't look like Fisher)
John Fisher 20 Poulterer
Henry Fisher 15 do
Emma Fisher 20
Julia Somers (?) 15 F S
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ShaunJ
I thought that baptism may of been him but the record I found didn't have a fathers occupation.
Thanks again.
bitzar.
ps. I'm still keen on the 1841 info.
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Have posted the 1841 info just before your post.
There are several Fisher baptisms at St James Westminster including a daughter Emma. Emma (abode Duke Street, father George) married William Culverhouse at St James on October 5th 1841. She could be the Emma in the 1841 census.
There is an 1855 PCC will for George Fisher (Albion Cottage, Hampstead) which mentions sons John and Henry and son-in-law William Culverhouse.
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Burial at Highgate cemetery 6th March 1855: George Fisher aged 68, Albion Cottage, Hampstead Heath.
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Thanks so much ShaunJ
John also married an Emma in January 1841 so I think the Emma on the 1841 is her. If George died in 1855 I wonder IF the George LEVENS may be a boo-boo?!
I will check all of this out further.
I was just going to ask if you had seen any more baptism with father noted as 'Poulterer'?!
thanks again, bitz.
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1851 census
Upper Heath, Hampstead
Albion Cottage
George Fisher widower 64 formerly dealer in poultry & game b. London
Hannah Heather servant 50 Berkshire
Henry Fisher son 27 "no business" London
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Thanks ShaunJ
Didn't have Geo on the 1851 either. I have John though so I can save you a search.
Thanks, bitz.
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John's siblings baptised at St James':
Sarah Anne born 28 May 1809 bap 25 Jun 1809
Emma #1 born 07 Dec 1811 bap 3 Jan 1812
Mercy born 3 Nov 1813 bap 26 Nov 1813
George born 10 Jul 1814 bap 6 Aug 1815
Emma #2 born 19 Nov 1819 bap 19 Dec 1819
Henry born 5 Aug 1821 bap 2 Sep 1821
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Marriage at St Lawrence in Thanet, Kent on 11 Aug 1808:
George Fisher, of St James's Westminster, batchelor
Sarah Friend, spinster and a minor with consent of her father
By license
Witnesses George Friend, Daniel Friend
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John Fisher baptism 25 January 1818 at St James Westminster:
Born 29 December 1817, father George, poulterer, mother Sarah, abode Piccadilly.
Pigot's 1825/6 London Directory has under Poulterers: Fisher Geo, 164 Piccadilly.
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Thanks for the added in for ShaunJ. Excellent.
Chris... I also found Geo Fisher, Poulterer at St James Market, 1811.
Bitzar.
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Hello ShaunJ
I'm wondering.... Is there any link between George Fisher, Poulterer of 23 Duke St St. James and Charles Fisher, gun Maker of 8 Princes St Leicester Square. A John Fisher, Sword maker was at 37 Duke St St. James.
George's 1855 will states he had several properties along Duke St St. James but not 37.
I'm thinking George and Charles may be brothers and that John Fisher, Sword maker, may be Charles' son!
The reason I think there may be a link, other than the Duke St St. James co incidence, is George's son, John Fisher, Poulterer married Emma Mortimer who was the daughter of Thomas Jackson Mortimer the extremely successful Gun Maker and actually the Kings gun maker!
tia, bitzar.
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George Fisher born in London, Charles Fisher was born Staffordshire per the 1851 census.
Number 37 Duke Street was an army clothier & tailoring establishment. Proprietor James Fisher in the 1830's ( see https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?div=t18340102-8 ). Son Henry Holmes Fisher went bankrupt in the 1840's per the Gazette. The business seems to have been taken over by Richard Ponder. Listed as Ponder & Fisher in the 1841 Directory. Also known as Fisher & Ponder. Richard Ponder, tailor listed in Duke Street in the 1841 census. Richard Ponder, Army Clothier in 1851. They certainly sold swords.
I haven't found a John Fisher, sword maker - where did that reference come from?
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ShaunJ
Sorry, it might gave to wait a couple of weeks before I can remember the ref. I'm on hols now.
Thanks again.
Bitzar.
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ShaunJ
Of course now I cant find the ref. I thought it was via G**gle! This is course means I could be mistaken re the John Fisher, Sword maker. BUT, if Fisher and Ponder was engraved into the Sword, wouldn't that make them the Swordmaker?!
Bitzar.
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Hello - I wonder if anyone is still following this thread?
John Fisher was my husband's 4th Great Grandfather. I just found his Will online via Ancestry and came across something that I need help interpreting.
The first line of his Will reads: " This is the last will and testament of me John Fisher of Duke Street Grosvenor Square in the parish of St. George Hanover Square in the County of Middlesex chinaman."
Given that we know he was a poulterer and not a dealer in chinaware, does this mean he was Chinese? Is it usual to see someone so described in a legal document?
[url]https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1704/31787_A037140-00103/342632?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/1740596/person/100193612726/facts/citation/502134964902/edit/record#?imageId=31787_A037140-00104/url]
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A chinaman is a dealer in porcelain.
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Hi JulieCY
Is yours the John who married Emma Mortimer?!
Bitzar.
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Thank you for the clarification of the term "chinaman".
Hello Bitzar...yes, this is the John Fisher who married Emma Mortimer. Their son Frederick Charles was my husband's Great Grandfather. What is your connection to the Fisher Mortimer family??
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I’m not connected at all, well not really. When my friend was starting her research I was helping her do it, that’s why I know a bit about the family but now that’s it’s bigger than big I’ve left it to her!
If you’re on Ancestry like she is then you should have a close relationship. I don’t know her Ancestry user name though but it’s a locked tree.
Your def descended from the same people though.
Bitzar.
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Hi there, I picked up this thread on an internet search I was doing for my Fisher ancestors.
George Fisher is a common name up my tree, indeed we have records of five of them (called George the 1st, 2nd etc!).
My uncle George Fisher was killed in the war (a pilot in N Africa). He was a medical student who chose join the airforce. He was George the 5th, and had a family tankard from his ancestors.
His father was Sir Ronald Fisher, 1890, the statistician, youngest son of George (the 4th) who lived in N London as a child. 9 children.
George (the 4th), 1843, was an auctioneer in Hampstead area of London, married to Katie Heath. 7 children.
His father was John Fisher (1818), a lawyer, married to Emma Mortimer. He was the second son (elder brother George, the 3rd - 1815) and started off in the poulterers shop because his brother died in his 20's. 9 children.
His father was George (the 2nd, 1787 probably), who was the poulterer in Duke St. Westminster, Middlesex. He married Sarah Friend from a Thanet family, had 7 children.
At his point I depend on my aunts biog of Ronald Fisher ("RA Fisher, Life of a scientist", pub Wiley in 1976ish, page 5)
Here is the passage:
"The family emerged from obscurity in the first half of the eighteenth century, when George Fisher (previously perhaps a farm laborer in Lincolnshire) set up a poulterer's shop in the parish of St. James's, Piccadilly. John, his only child, inherited the business and, in turn, left it to his only child, George. By this time the business was prosperous. George Fisher became a churchwarden of the parish church and eventually retired to live a few miles away in the celebrated village of Hampstead. His eldest son, George, died in young manhood and, when he summoned his second son, John, from his medical studies to take over the family business, he could afford to buy a Life Governorship of Christ's Hospital in compensation for the sacrificed career. It was a handsome present for a man just come of age.
John, R. A. Fisher's grandfather, is the only one of his ancestors known to have been inclined to a scientific career. At 23, John married the girl from next door," Emma Mortimer, daughter of Thomas Jackson Mortimer, gunsmith of St. James's Street, Piccadilly. The young couple continued to live above the poulterer's shop in Duke Street and to keep shop until the death of conn s father in 1855 (after slipping on a piece of orange peel). Then John invited his younger brother to take over the business and himself retired.."
I am trying to find evidence on George (the first) who moved in to London in the early 1700's, and his son John (probably married to "Ann"). There are about 4 John Fishers in and about London at this point.
If anyone has got this far back with information on B/M/D, i would love to share it!
Best wishes..
Steve Cox