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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: gazza1966 on Friday 04 November 16 16:25 GMT (UK)
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Hi There,
I do know my 2xgrandfather John Flanagan's occupation as a Commercial Traveller, as it states on his death record in 1897, 47 yrs old in No.10 Villa Bank, Arran Quay, Dublin.
If possible, please can someone out there point in in the right direction on an organisation of records on Commercial Travellers.
I tried google search, but nothing comes up.
Kind Regards
Gary
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I wouldn't think there is/was one.
There is no professional body linked to the occupation, or central organisation.
Happy to be proved wrong!
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Hi lizdb,
Thankyou for answering, and sorry if i sound bad i just hope your wrong ;),
Regards
Gary
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try a Thoms all ireland or just dublin sections directory say 1880-1890 look for his name in trade lists eg shoe manufacturers most CT focus on a single trade
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Hi BallyaltikilliganG,
Thank You for pointing me in the right direction.
Kind Regards
Gary
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It may be that he previously served his time in a shop before becoming a salesman for a business. For example, a tea traveller might have worked in a grocery store and then with that experience was able to get employment for a firm that sold tea.
Have you checked other certificates (marriage? children's births, marriages or deaths?) to see if another occupation is listed?
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Hi aghadowey,
Thank you for answering, yes i have noticed a few changes in John's occupation, this is the marriage and the three children of John Flanagan and with John's occupation.
Marriage:1883 Waterford, John's Occupation: Accountant
Daughter Jessie's birth: 1884 Co.Down, John's Occupation: Book Keeper
Daughter Jessie's Marriage: 1906 Co.Down, John's Occupation: Traveller
Son William's birth: 1886 Waterford, John's Occupation: Traveller
Son William's Marriage: 1916 Co.Cork, John's Occupation: Mason
Son George's birth: 1893 Belfast, John's Occupation: Traveller
aghadowey do you think i should get a subscripton on one of the ancestry site, and lookup on the Thom's Street Directory.
Regards
Gary
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The only occupation listed that doesn't fit is mason but as that's from a son's marriage certificate could just be a mistake (perhaps officiant got mixed up or son just thought it was correct). Accountant/book-keeper to commercial traveller is logical but it's just a matter of luck if he's listed in directories. If you do go down that route then be sure to check by addresses known rather than just surname listing as there are usually more listings under the address but not everyone listed by name in directories.
Might also be worth searching old newspapers for adverts or news articles.
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aghadowey thanks for all the info you have sent to me.
I appreciate with your advice, and its recently i found a John Flanagan death in 1897 in Dublin as a Commercial Traveller, then by 1901 Census the son of John my grandfather William Flanagan 14yrs was in a boarding school for boys in Dublin, so to me it adds up.
John's wife my 2xgrandmother Gertrude Tiffin/Flanagan remarried in Co.Down in 1898, about 6 months after John died.
Kind Regards
Gary
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Is this John's death? says informant widow Maria Flanagan-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05849/4657243.pdf
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Yes thats Johns death , it does state he's married, i'm now trying to find who this Maria Flanagan (widow) is, maybe sister-in-law.
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Other than his death cert have you any other info to connect him to that address ,did they live there as a family it seems strange that Gertrude from Waterford should head back to Belfast and remarry in 1898
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have you checked out his burial in Glasnevin to see who caused him to be buried there ?
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
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1884- Jessie Flanagan born 3 Wolff St. Belfast
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02672/1984713.pdf
1890- WOLFF STREET Newtownards Road to Foundry Street a number of small houses
1890- 43 Upper Frank St.: Kirkwood, A., linen salesman
http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/efgcomplete1890.htm
1893- George Flanagan family address 43 Upper Frank St., Belfast
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02296/1861299.pdf
Sadly, George died a few months later 29 July 1893- seems to be a family plot so worth looking at the other burials if you haven’t done so already. Indications are that his mother's family might have Belfast links?
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6337.5634
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William Kiffin William Tiffin as in Gertrudes maiden name
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ormeau/Jocelyn_Street/1210919/
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Tiffins and Somervilles buried in same plot as baby George ;)
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=578684.0
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=578684.0
Thanks, dathai. See that we've wasted a lot of time and effort trying to help when there are so many previous threads ::)
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aghadowey,
I got to admit with my tree its a complete mess, going back to my earlier posts i think there's been two John Flanagans with father William, and i've somehow got it wrong, and chose the wrong one. ???
So this John Flanagan occupation: Commercial Traveller who's death in 1897 in Dublin, has me really thinking, and now i'm trying to find a way on going backwards in years, maybe the Thom's street directory could be the answer.
Gary
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From the birth records in Belfast and Waterford it's quite possible he will have been missed in directories.
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What school is William Flanagan age 14 in 1901
if this is it its 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000215291/
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Hi dathai,
On the 1901 Irish Census my grandfather William Flanagan 14yrs was in a boarding school for boys at No 1 Malone Lower (Saint Anne's Ward, Belfast Antrim.
On the 1901 Irish Census my great aunt Jessie Flanagan 16yrs is written down as niece, and living at 20 Markstown Road, (Blackrock, Dublin).
Sorry if i mentioned William living in Dublin, its actually his sister Jessie.
Gary
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www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Saint_Anne_s_Ward_Belfast/Malone_Lower/953643
Malone Protestant Reformatory-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000306947/
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you may be able to get some background information ie when he was sent there and possibly when his father died from records
http://www.learnaboutarchives.ie/index.php/news/ara-i-newsletter-archive/179-the-reformatory-industrial-and-training-schools-archive-at-proni
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Hi aghadowey & dathai,
Thanks for helping me with info.
Yes dathai thanks for the link you sent me, i'm deffo going to get contact with the archives, fingers cross.
Regards
Gary
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As he was probably sent there around the time of his mothers second marriage he would probably have been around 10 or 11, i would say that by the time of his marriage in 1916 that he had no knowledge of his deceased fathers occupation and just said Mason.
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dathai
Thanks for the input.
Gary
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Found this Commercial Traveller but with a wife Margaret Russell he has children in various counties and on their births i have found him down as a land steward
first his marriage in Dublin 1857
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/2f34ea0054441
children
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01iu1/
then his son John in 1896 in Dublin
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/081b060005170
on his civil cert he says father John is a commercial traveller
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10479/5816758.pdf
young John says he was born Waterford circa 1864
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Fitzwilliam/Lower_Camden_Street_W__Side/1307058/
so could this be the man that died 1897 possibly remarried to a Maria ?
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Hi dathai,
Thankyou for all the info you have found, i've messaged the Public Records Office of Northern Ireland who are helping with my enquiry about my grandfather William Flanagan why he was put in a boarding school for boys.
Regards
Gary
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Hope it answers your questions and solves the puzzle,best of luck
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Thanks dathai
Regards
Gary