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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: cristeen on Saturday 05 November 16 14:43 GMT (UK)
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As stated FHL film number has Richard GArdner marrying Mary Glover 19th January 1851. They were originally married at Gretna Green on 13th April 1850 so I'm assuming the 1851 ceremony was for family back home/legality purposes.
The problem is I can't find the 1851 marriage in the civil registration lists. I'd like to get the certificate in order to clarify Mary's marital status. I have search freeBMD, Ancestry, FindMyPast, everywhere I can think of, with no joy. I would really appreciate some help with this one!
Thanks Christine
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It certainly seems to have slipped the GRO's net! :-\
I would suggest that you contact one of the record offices (Carlisle or Whitehaven), telling them your problem.
http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/archives/contact/default.asp
A copy from a register is likely to cost less than the GRO price for a certificate.
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The LDS records include things other than actual marriages, such as Banns. This particular record does not mention parents, but then again only the later records in the batch do.
The only certain way to find out what the meaning of the record is would be to order up the film. The record office at Carlisle may hold a copy of the same film.
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All of the "marriages" in that IGI batch in 1851, I03796-5, seem to have taken place on a Sunday.
One would therefore assume that it referred to reading of Banns, rather than marriage itself.
Calendar for 1851 in case you need it https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=1851&country=9
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Thank you for the input you two. I did wonder whether it may have been a blessing of the earlier marriage maybe. I will dig further!
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MARY JANE Huddart Christened 26 October 1845, Maryport, Cumberland
Parents JOSEPH/MARY
1851 we have;
Mary Gardiner, 28
Mary J Huddart, 5
Now we have this Marriage, Reg Dec 1844 Liverpool, 20 373;
Joseph HUDDART and Mary GLOVER on same page
So something strange here if she was Mary Glover, married Joseph Huddart, Widowed and then married Richard Gardner I would think she would use the name Huddart not Glover on that Marriage?
Trish :)
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Marriage: 22 Nov 1844 St Thomas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Joseph Huddart - full, Mariner, Bachelor, Liverpool
Mary Glover - full, Spinster, Liverpool
Groom's Father: John Huddart, Mariner
Bride's Father: James Glover, Merchant's Clerk
Witness: Hannah Buck; Thomas Moynogh; William Atkinson
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If all else fails a Birth Cert of one of Richard/Marys Children will have all the info you require as to Marys maiden name etc.
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1841 Census
Cumberland
HO107/161/12/Canonby Cross
Janes Glover, 40 (James)
Mary Glover, 40
MARY Glover, 20****
John Glover, 15
Janes Glover, 15
William Glover, 11
Wilton Glover, 9
1851 Census
James Glover, 55
Mary Glover, 53
Wilton W W Glover, 17
Possible Marriage on Familysearch.Org
30 March 1816 Camerton, Cumberland, England
James GLOVER to Mary GARAT
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Trish1120
Thank you. I have the census details for the Glovers in Canonby Cross and I believe this is my Mary's family. The census returns for Richard Gardner and Mary show her born in Dearham. The Liverpool Huddart Glover marriage is a different couple I believe, they are in Liverpool in 1851(HO 107/2184/10/186. The GRO index shows two children James 1854 Q4 Lancaster 8E 469 and John 1862 Q1 Lancaster 8E 610 both with MMN Glover. I cannot find daughter Ann born 1852 Morecambe Lancs.
I am fairly sure Mary was a Glover who had an illegitimate child, possibly with a Joseph Huddart. The family biographies I have state she was a widow, born a McKenzie in Perth and married to a customs officer from Maryport who drowned. I want to check this lady out as thoroughly as I can because the descendants of this Gardner family have long believed they have Scottish roots via her. I am now even more sure that the widow story was a cover-up for her illegitimate child Mary Jane Huddart.
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Trish1120, I apologise if I came across badly in that last post. Your Liverpool marriage is indeed the same Mary Glover I believe. Hopefully I've managed to post her signature from both marriage registers.
I also found a newspaper article of a trial in which she acts as witness for my ggg grandfather, six weeks before they were married. She is described as Mary Huddart, a widow.
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Aah very interesting. No need to apologise :)
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Scottish connection?
Name:Richard Baxter Gardner
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 27 Sep 1857
Birth Place: Annan, Dumfries, Scotland
Father: Richard Gardner
Mother:Mary Glover
I hadnt followed Mary up in Census after 1851 until now.
(you probably have all of this)
1871 Census
Morecombe, Lancs
Richard Gardner, 50
Mary Gardner, 50, born Maryport, Cumberland
James Gardner, 16
Richard S Gardner, 13, born Scotland
John Gardner, 9
Mary A Gardner, 2, Granddaughter
1861 in Lancs
Mary Gardner, 37
Mary Jane Huddart, 15
Anne Gardner, 9
James Gardner, 6
Richard William Gardner, 3
This Census has James born Scotland and Richard in Lancs!
GARDNER, JAMES , Mothers mn GLOVER****
GRO Reference: 1854 D Quarter in LANCASTER Volume 08E Page 469
GARNER, ANN , Mothers mn GLOVER ***
GRO Reference: 1851 S Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 25 Page 117
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I dont have access to to Richard/Marys Marriage.
Can you tell me their Fathers names/occp's please.
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Richard and Mary married at Gretna Green. (Parents were James Glover, clerk/shipwright and Richard Gardner, fisherman/husbandman) Richard was a fisherman from Poulton-le-Sands (now Morecambe) Families regularly sailed to fish at other ports in the area, staying for several months or even a few years. My great great grandfather (Richard William Baxter Gardner) was born in Annan for this reason, the family moved back to Morecambe when he was a few years old.
All the evidence for Mary points to her being a Glover born in Dearham/Maryport/Ellenborough. I have no idea where my grandfather got the idea she was a McKenzie from Perth. He seems to have been correct about her being a widowed grocer from Maryport though!
You found Ann Gardners' birth registration, thanks I hadn't managed that yet!
I do have Mary on census right through to 1911 where she is listed as Mary Glover Gardner, living with her grandaughter Mary Ann Sear.
My mum thinks her father 'embellished his version of the family history in order to resolve his personal queries and wishes! An example is that he writes that he was named (he was Wilton) after a town in Wiltshire which was the origin of another family branch. I have traced said family back about six generations with some certainty and they are all very much Lancashire based. I think he was named after Mary Glovers' younger brother Wilton, who seems to be a bit of character.
Thanks for your interest and help
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Your welcome cristeen. It all seems to add up to me. I have one of those Family stories also ;D
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It has certainly given me a bit more 'flesh' for that family's page in my written history :)