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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: asilky on Wednesday 09 November 16 05:23 GMT (UK)
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Hi All
can anyone find Bertha Caroline Matilda Anderhein coming into Australia or a marriage to William Rathe around 1887 living in Mt Morgan Queensland had 2 children Ada Rathe 1889 and George Peter Rathe 1891.Bertha went back to Germany time unknown William a miner at Mt Morgan until he died.
help with this would be appreciated .
thanks Silky
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Different spelling of Bertha's surname:
1889 C10459 Ada Rathe William Bertha Andhit
1891 C10385 George Peter Rathe William Bertha Anderheit
I can't see a marriage of William on QldBDM
Jamjar
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Thank you jamjar
yes many wrong spellings on BDM's but it is Anderheit but I realise that it could be spelt any way on shipping...
silky
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Is the George Peter in NSW yours.
I ask as I can't see his marriage either and the Trove article says his wife was born in Mt Morgan?
Is there other spelling for Rathe?
Jamjar
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Have you got William's arrival?
J.
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In 1893 an advertisement regarding her furniture to be sold for her departure to Germany.
I infer from this that she was living alone as it seems to be her possessions on the market
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52448419
Mrs W RATHE had advertised her establishment of a school in Rockhampton for young children 1891
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52424791
Sue
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Owing to her departure for Germany, Mrs RATHE takes her boy out of the Rockhampton hospital.
Sept 1893
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52450091
Sue
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Hi,
Emigrants from Hamburg to Australasia 1850-1879.
Arrived in Rockhampton, 1878, on the Charles Dickens.
RATHE Wilhelm, 21, occupation, arbeiter.
From, Hope in Hanover State.
Gerry
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Hi,
Correction to the direct above.
The 'Charles Dickens' left Hamburg on 6th November 1878 and arrived Rockhampton on 26th February 1879.
Gerry.
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asilky has not mentioned how much (if any) information is held about the children.
However, this death may be of interest.
33290/1965
RATHE George
Parents George Peter & Not Known
At WYONG
Not sure about this marriage, but perhaps worth considering though the spelling is not quite right.
0212/1921
MACFARLANE David
RATH Ada
At SYDNEY
Sue
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It is possible to see William on the QLD Electoral Rolls and in order to register, he would of course, have to be a naturalised citizen.
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/Researchers/Indexes/Courts/Pages/Naturalisations.aspx
Perhaps this is him listed twice in the index
RATHE William
number 29
Year 1899
Ref. 1697781 A/49120 Z1998
RATHE William R
Number 29
Page 112
Year 1899
Ref 841184 SCT/CF38 Z2287
The other of the surname may be related (also listed twice ???)
RATHE George
Number 12
Year 1896
Ref 1697781 A/49120 Z1998
RATHE George R
Number 12
Page 55
Year 1896
Ref 841184 SCT/CF38 Z2287
George is listed on the QLD 1903 Electoral Roll as a butcher in Rockhampton at Weinbolt Street.
No others of the surname with him
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1900 Queensland State Electoral Roll.
Electoral District of Fitzroy.
Mount Morgan Division.
Rathe William, age, 42 of Mount Usher, miner.
Qualified by residence on 11th October 1899.
Gerry
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Hi To all
I want to thank you all for that information it was so helpful we knew that Bertha wife of Willhelm went back to Germany as we have her headstone in Germany given by a family member but couldn't find when but you have just given me the answer 1893 .The children went with her but the son came back to find his father when he came of age.I have the census info thank you but don't have the ship George Peter came back to Australia on or the ship Bertha Rathe left on in 1893.
thanks again I searched trove for days and couldn't find what you found.
silky
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Here is the article re: George Peter and the death of his wife in 1934.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article169330999
They had 12 year old Merva. So, you are looking at an arrival date prior to 1922.
This can be narrowed by the age you consider "of age".
Or, do you know when he arrived, but just not on which ship?
Jamjar
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Hi Jamjar
thank you just wanted the ships
silky
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William's naturalisation is on NAA. Says he arrived 1881 on the Charles Dickens.
8 May 1916 it says wife and daughter on trip to Germany. Son residing Rockhampton.
Application was denied due to it being wartime and he being German.
J.
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Hi
that's strange ????
maybe he married again.If newspaper in 1893 has her selling her furniture she is not coming back also George would be 2 and Ada 5 couldn't leave them behind , maybe selling her furniture to raise money for trip.
silky
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Could he have made a trip home and got married?
RATHE BERTHA MRS 24 NURNBERG MAR 1889 SYDNEY MAR 1889 001
RATHE WILH 28 NURNBERG MAR 1889 SYDNEY MAR 1889 001
I know the two ages are a little out, but that's not all that unusual.
Jamjar
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Maybe he thought it would affect his application if he had to explain why his wife had left him. At least it confirms George Peter was back by 1916.
Jamjar
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Hi Jamjar
does that mean they came into Sydney 1889 as a married couple ?Must have gone straight to MT Morgan
We know Bertha went back to Germany and stayed .
thanks for the find on the couple coming into Australia
silky
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Frau B RATHE had a cabin, for Sydney. (the transcriber has it as Apia, but I am sure it is Sydney, and simply a mis-read due to lack of pre-printed lines on the page). W RATHE was listed as steerage. They are recorded on "Scan no. 2"
http://marinersandships.com.au/1889/03/087nur.htm
:)
JM
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Sure looks like they came back to Sydney on the "Nurnberg' in March 1889 as a married couple. Wilhelm had arrived in Rockhampton on the 'Charles Dickens' in February 1879 went into mining and went back to Germany probably around 1888 and married Bertha and they came back to Australia in March 1889. Wilhelm was in Rockhampton/Mount Morgan by October 1889. Sounds like Wilhelm had made some money to be able to go back to Germany and return married, also sounds like that Bertha was educated and astute because she went on to open a boarding and day school in Rockhampton in 1891.
Who was George Rathe also in the area in the 1880s and later, a brother?
Gerry
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From Prov:
RATHE G age 31 POTOSI II MAY 1881 SYDNEY MAY 1881 005
RATHE GEORGE age 21 MAY 1881 POTOSI B 391 008
Thought I'd list the others on PROV in case there's a family connection. All to Sydney
RATHE DAVIED MR 18 FEB 1912 FRIEDRICH DER GROSSE F 434 007
RATHE L MR 28 JAN 1913 GNEISENAU F 448 012
RATHE MATHILDE 27 JUN 1897 STUTTGART F 316 004
RATHE SOPHIE 65 OCT 1894 SOLINGEN F 295 003
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Frau B RATHE had a cabin, for Sydney. (the transcriber has it as Apia, but I am sure it is Sydney, and simply a mis-read due to lack of pre-printed lines on the page). W RATHE was listed as steerage. They are recorded on "Scan no. 2"
http://marinersandships.com.au/1889/03/087nur.htm
:)
JM
When I look at the original Passenger list, Frau B RATHE is clearly destined for Sydney.
The transcription on http://marinersandships.com.au/1889/03/087nur.htm is inaccurate as it is the passenger above her who is destined for Apia along with a few others on the passenger list.
Apia is a port in Samoa and it is possible a group were off on missionary work at that time in history ;D
Sue
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Who was George Rathe also in the area in the 1880s and later, a brother?
Gerry
Some burial and death information.
William is buried at North Rockhampton Cemetery
RATHE WILLIAM 76 Male
Death date- Tuesday, 11 July 1933
Burial date- Wednesday, 12 July 1933
Location- section1
There is not a death to 1985 in QLD for George RATHE, but this in NSW.
22435/1936
RATHE George
Parents Joseph & Christophina
At NEWTOWN
Burial.
George RATHE
Aged 76
Date 24/12/1936
Location-Zone F Lutheran E 321
Silky, who were William's parents?
Do you know?
Sue
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A couple of NSW Electoral Roll listings for one George RATHE
1930
RATHE, George
7 Cooper Street, Glenmore.
Labourer
1936
RATHE, George
48 Farr Street, Marrickville.
No Occ
Sue
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Hi All
thanks for all the info but I do not know Wlihelms parents he was born in Germany but it seems they came from Hamburg.
silky
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It would be good to have a look at the Queensland Naturalization films for Wilhelm Rathe and George Rathe to see if they came from the same area in Germany. I would be very surprised if they are not directly related somehow.
Gerry
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A newspaper in 1906 has the death of Sophia Rathe at her son's residence in Weinholt St Rockhampton, in her 79th year.
Sophia died on 13th Oct 1906.
Gerry
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Hi,
A subscription genealogical site has the marriage certificate for Wilhelm Rathe and Bertha Caroline Mathilde Anderheit on 8th Jan 1889 in Hamburg, Germany.
Wilhelm's parents and date of birth etc
Looks like the Sophia who died in Rocky in 1906 was Wilhelm's mother and therefore George was his brother!
Gerry
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I am wondering about this immigration,which Ancestry has transcribed as T. RATHE.
When I study it, it seems to be S RATHE.
Could it be Sophia?
She is listed as female and seems to be a gardener and single ???
Sue
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I think that's an "S" Sue :)
As in "Single" :) elsewhere on that snippet
JM
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For comparison, the Master's name is consistently transcribed as TRULSEN in the years before and after.
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I think that's an "S" Sue :)
As in "Single" :) elsewhere on that snippet
JM
;D ;D ;D
I used the term loosely.
She is listed as unmarried ;)
I will check the original again
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:) :) :)
And that's showing that Trulsen's "T" is formed similar to the "F" in female .... ;D which if I remember correctly both T and F were similarly constructed at commencing flourish. (Top left of the T)
JM
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A couple more S
Not sure if he is a sinker or a tinker (or neither ;D)
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Single Female on passenger lists can indicate unaccompanied adult female :) just not being accompanied by a husband on that voyage. :) Widow, Divorcee, Married, Unmarried, Spinster, Maiden etc.
JM
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Oh, I didn't know that!
Anyhow the ship was Solingen from Hamburg to Sydney October 1894.
Perhaps, if it is her, she had a travelling companion among the very short passenger list.
Sue
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:)
Family members travelled back and forth to NZ.
From 1880s
When my Great Gran was travelling with her children she is listed as Mrs V xxxx + 6 (or more) children. (V being Grandad's initial). When she went to NZ in 1890s (funeral, sort out household belongings etc) she went alone, and on return voyage she is listed as Miss ! On other occasions she is listed as a Male. Fortunately we know the voyages as she kept a journal/diary and wrote many letters with instructions (a micro manager of extreme thoroughness !) In one letter she noted that she was answering to Mister and she could not be bothered reminding them that she was dressed in female clothing. I will dig the letter out one time and scan and share.
JM
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She was age 65, at time of arrival, so a widow maybe.
Jamjar
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Yes, if it is her, no sign of a husband named Joseph (or anything else) on that voyage.
Sue
PS, ADDING to clarify.
I think "Sophia" is a corruption of "Christophina"
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From the Hamburg marriages 1874-1920 on Ancestry.
Wilhelm married Bertha on 8th Jan 1889 in Hamburg.
Wilhelm, born, 6th Dec 1857 and Bertha born, 3rd Feb 1866.
Wilhelm's parents were
Friedrich Wilhelm Rathe and Sophia Dorothea ?? Linne.
The image of the certificate is in German.
Sophia Rathe died in Rockhampton on 13th Oct 1906, father Linne, mother Sophia.
Gerry
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Well, I have it quite wrong then ::)
Sue
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It seems George was sick with plague in 1900
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18548661
Sue
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South Rockhampton Cemetery
RATCHE, Sophia, 79, buried 14th October 1906.
Religion, CE, Row 33, Burial No 3932.
Gerry
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Rockhampton North Cemetery
William Rathe age 76 death date Tuesday, 11 July 1933, burial date Wednesday, 12 July 1933
Section 1 Row 11 Grave 60. C of E.
Jamjar
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From the Hamburg deaths 1874-1950.
The certificate is in German so had to try and translate bits and pieces.
Bertha Caroline Mathilde Rathe died on 13th May 1945 in Hamburg Germany.
Bertha was a widow, Lutheran and a private teacher, born 3rd Feb 1866 in Hamburg.
Married to Wilhelm Rathe a miner recently a resident of Rockhampton.
Father, Peter Eduard Anderheit and mother, Henriette Sophia Augustine Hartung.
Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
I am sure that information will be of great interest to silky.
An excellent finding ;D
So, it looks as if Bertha RATHE decided Australia was not for her and returned to her homeland.
Apparently neither she, nor her husband sought divorce.
Sue
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Hi Sue,
Thanks, there is now a lot of valuable info for Silky from many contributors. I agree with your views about Bertha, something forced her to return to Hanover before she was 30 after only a few years of marriage and living in Rocky.
Gerry
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Hi All
yes such valuable information we did have the info on Bertha dying in Hamburg but you have found so much more thank you I do a lot of searching but when I get stuck I know I can get help from you guys ... ;)silky
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Hi all that have helped
I have a real mystery in the first wife of George Peter Rathe who was Matilda Lilly /lily Andersen married about 1920 have no marriage but on first childs birth (Merva)Matilda born in Mt Morgan they were married at Cairns Merva born 1920/23 cant read the Cert .Torn off.in Mt Morgan Queensland.
If anyone can help with that as we have no idea what happened to Matilda ...No death. ???
Not to be confused with Matilda Lily Anderson born in Sydney and died infant father John .
silky
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Hi,
There is this newspaper article from Truth Newspaper 25th March 1934, page 28 that has a lengthy story about the death of Lily Rathe at the Newcastle Hospital.
I had originally posted the newspaper article but it mentions a person whom still may be living so I have removed it.
Gerry
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Hi Gerry
this was his second wife Lily Rathe nee Burton .That is why we are searching for first wife .Different mother for Merva....Matilda Lily Andersen but she is suppose to be born in Mt Morgan but maybe Germany ?Her age on Mervas birth was 20 yrs. So born about 1900/1897 ..It was known by other children that Merva was half sister.It wasn't quiet clear to family members.many secrets
silky
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Hi All
it is quiet possible that George and Matilda Rathe with at least one child went for a visit to Germany in 1923/4 a birth cert was extacted in 1923 possible to get a passport for the child.Any help on this would be appreciated
silky
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Hi silky, hi all,
I am Doris from Hamburg/Germany. The father of Bertha Rathe is the brother of the grandma of my grandma. Perhaps I have some new Information for you. Two years ago a made a dossier of Peter Eduard Anderheit. Are you interested?
Greeting from Hamburg
Doris
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Hi Doris
do you know the church Wilhelm and Bertha married in Hamburg?Its for Suzanne.
asilky
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Hi silky, hi Suzanne,
I don't know the church. I think it could be one of some catholic churches in Hamburg.
But they married at the registry office (Standesamt) in Hamburg. If you tell me your
E-Mail-address, I can send you a copy of the marriage certificate.
Greetings from Hamburg
Doris