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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: liqnov on Thursday 10 November 16 10:47 GMT (UK)
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Good morning all,
I am trying to decipher an extract from the Mayo 1851 Census and need some help if possible please?
Attached is the said document and on the righthand side mid way down is a hand written narrative which starts with a word that looks like "LUGHOON". This is a word i don't recognise, and could do with help please. Also on this same narrative there is a word i cannot work out, and is the word following 'not appear as a ????, for the life of me i don't know what this word is.
The next part i am not sure about is at the top of the sheet where it says 'FULL NAME OF FATHER AND MOTHER OF APPLICANT, it says Pat & Mary Maye (Timlin), but further down the sheet under the heading of 'return searched by' the names read Patt & May Maye? confusing and again your help and comments will be gratefully received.
The townland is shown as Ballindoo or Doocastle, are these places, villiage's or something else?
I anyone recognises any of the people on this extract i would love to hear from you
Many thanks all
Regards
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Lughdoon does not appear as a townland (twld)in Costello Barony.....
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FW did a search of Census on 30/11/1917 and found Patt and May both age 40 with children Dan 13 etc etc....
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Hi Hallmark
Firstly thanks for the prompt replies. Twid does seem to be a good representation of the word. Now, MAY or MARY, the person requesting the census certainly does put MARY as the female and then the enumerator puts MAY. So would it not be correct to say the person requesting (their son), would know his mothers name. With this information can we say with certainty that, the enumerator wrote the wrong forename for the female or, has he read it wrong off the Census form. A real puzzle this one !!
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Hi Hallmark
Firstly thanks for the prompt replies. Twid does seem to be a good representation of the word. Now, MAY or MARY, the person requesting the census certainly does put MARY as the female and then the enumerator puts MAY. So would it not be correct to say the person requesting (their son), would know his mothers name. With this information can we say with certainty that, the enumerator wrote the wrong forename for the female or, has he read it wrong off the Census form. A real puzzle this one !!
It says twld [a common abbreviation for townland] not twid.
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Hi Hallmark
Firstly thanks for the prompt replies. Twid does seem to be a good representation of the word. Now, MAY or MARY, the person requesting the census certainly does put MARY as the female and then the enumerator puts MAY. So would it not be correct to say the person requesting (their son), would know his mothers name. With this information can we say with certainty that, the enumerator wrote the wrong forename for the female or, has he read it wrong off the Census form. A real puzzle this one !!
Not really if Parent's couldn't read or write! How would they know that what was written down was incorrect?? Or him??
has he read it wrong off the Census form?? No, because he didn't read it, FW did!!
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Some Marys are know as May.
All my gran's sisters except one called her Mary, one sister and therefore her children call her May, which I have to remember every time I email one of them with questions.
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http://www.logainm.ie/en/1414292?s=Doocastle in Kilturra Parish http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0124
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Hallmark,
Yes FW read it and thats who i meant could have read it wrong?
Sinann,
Many thanks i did not know Mary's were called May
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Ballindoo or Doocastle was a townland in Costello Barony, in the civil Parish of Kilturra and the Poor Law Union of Swinford. (List of Townlands in Mayo, Wikipedia). I don't know about Lughoon. I tried variations of spelling but nothing matched. I thought it may have been Lough****.
Is the document connected with a pension application? As Irish birth registration only began in 1860s, people who were born before then had to prove their age some other way when applying for a pension, e.g. if they were on 1841 or '51 Irish census. Applicants had to remember where they were at the time of the census, which may have been 50 or 60 years previously, perhaps when they were children. They might have emigrated since; other family members may have been dead or abroad, so it's not surprising they couldn't remember every detail. Add to that, loss of Census records.
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There is a townland called Lugdoon in County Sligo- about 25 miles from Doocastle-
https://www.townlands.ie/sligo/tireragh/templeboy/templeboy-north/lugdoon/
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There were indeed Mayes in Doocastle (and still there in the 1901 and 1911 Ireland censuses), but for the moment, just to focus in specifically on the applicant's name and address in the application form completed in 1917. At the link below, a child's story talks about their home district being 'Rathbane', in 'the parish of Bunninadden' belonging to 'the barony of borran' (note 'child's' - some licence on accuracy required):
http://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4701757/4699933/4726642
This is clarified by the location (townland) Rathbaun North (down the side of that webpage) which is in Kilturra Civil Parish, barony of Corran. Bunninadden (and variant spellings) is easily found on google maps. Also see here:
http://achonrydiocese.org/parishes/sligo/bunninadden/
Here it was as well in the OSI 6" mapping series, by panning southeast a short distance, one will quickly see Rathbaun North:
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,560408,811655,10,7
BTW, just to note, this is relatively close to the Mayo-Sligo county border and Doocastle isn't far to the south. To cut to the chase, there is a possibility that the 1917 application form reads across to this man in the 1901 and 1911 censuses:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Sligo/Kilturra/Rathbaun_North/1689055/
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Sligo/Kilturra/Rathbaun_North/773826/
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Taking into account the details of the children in the above census returns (ie. by finding likely births) leads one to this possibility for the couple, Pat and Peggy? (Margaret) Maye, both of 'Rhabane', who got married in Bunninadden RC Church in 1883, Patrick's father was recorded as 'Pat. Maye Deceased':
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1884/10895/5979529.pdf
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Patrick Maye's birth year, taking into account the census returns and 1883 marriage record (age 31?), seems to be in the range 1845-1852, however this could be well out. Just to note this as a possibility, the baptism of a Patrick Maye in Ballysodare and Kilvarnet RC parish registers, it occurred on 2 July 1842, the address was Rathbane, the parents were Patrick Maye and Mary He? (Hevers?), the sponsors were John Maye and Attracta Maye (left page, 2nd entry up from bottom):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632300#page/4/mode/1up
Regarding possibilities for the surname of 'Mary He?', a Patrick May married a Margaret Hever on 15 February 1836 (Emlefad and Kilmorgan RC parish registers, left page, 2nd entry up from bottom):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632303#page/40/mode/1up
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HOWEVER, there is another possibility very nearby, in the form of a marriage in 1846 in Kilshalvey RC parish between Pat May and Mary Tivnan (right page, 12 lines up from bottom):
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632311#page/27/mode/1up
While I can't see a Patrick baptised for this couple (perhaps not available online), I'm wondering about the similarity of 'Timlin' on the 1917 application form and 'Tivnan'.
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Hallmark,
Yes FW read it and thats who i meant could have read it wrong?
Sinann,
Many thanks i did not know Mary's were called May
She was reading what was written on his Application!
It obviously doesn't exist which is why they are looking for correct information.
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Hi everyone,
So a couple of years have passed since my original post around the 1851 census query. I now understand the census search forms a little better and know that it was done for a person to apply for a pension if you were 70 years of age or older. You had to prove who you were and where your parents were living in 1841 & 1851. The person that was applying on the attached search was a Pat Maye who gives his address as Bunninadden, but I cant find any trace of him or a death for him? Can anyone help once again please.
Many thanks