RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tyrone => Topic started by: Andrew C. on Thursday 17 November 16 22:14 GMT (UK)
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Am I missing something? I have been working my way through the Ireland GRO records for my great grandparents and their children and everyone was present and correct until I got to the second youngest Thomas Loughlin. Thomas can be found with his mother in Sion Mills in 1901 giving a birth year of 1894. Sadly Thomas died in 1910 death registered by his sister, Bella. The puzzle is however the only Thomas Loughlin I can see in 1894 has a mother Lizzie Loughlin. The place is right Stoneyfalls and the father is right, Robert but the mother is wrong. So is this the right Thomas if so who is Lizzie? If it is wrong then where is Thomas's birth? As a ps I believe the father Robert died in 1900 the death registered by his brother.
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On one of mine the mother's maiden name is incorrect, not even close, everything else is correct and the father was the only person in that townland by that name.
I suspect the mother got someone else to register the birth pretending to be her and she messed up giving her own maiden name.
Maybe their daughter registered the birth.
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The birth was registered by the father Robert although there was a sister Lizzie who would have been twelve or thirteen at the time.
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"......everyone was present and correct until I got to the second youngest Thomas Loughlin. Thomas can be found with his mother in Sion Mills in 1901 giving a birth year of 1894......"
but you're not going to say what the mother's name on Census is!
"..father Robert died in 1900 the death registered by his brother" Lizzie could be brother's wife??
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Mother's name Cathern Ann Loughlin in 1901 census-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Altaclady/Town_of_Seein_or_Sion_Mills/1751153
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001217859/
Catherine Ann (nee Aitchison) on daughter Annie's birth-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02183/1826405.pdf
same mother on Rebecca's birth-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02430/1905012.pdf
Loughlin is a fairly common name and I'm not convinced that the Thomas Laughlin you found with mother listed as Lizzie Wardlow? is the correct one-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/fa535a1282404
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Yes i appreciate Loughlin in general is very common and Robert Loughlin in particular is common with a lot of intermarriage which makes me very apprehensive of making definitive statements about the family. No I do not think it is the right Thomas either so where is the right one? I had a look for this other family (Robert, Lizzie & Thomas) on the census and on the GRO but did not have much luck. It may remain a mystery not that important in the scheme of things just wondered why I couldn't find his birth.
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What looks like Thomas' baptism on 6 May 1894 (Drumclamph parish) gives a date of birth of 24 March, mother Catherine, address Stoneyfalls.
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https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/fa535a1282404
That Thomas Laughlin born 23 Feb.1894 according to birth registration.
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Sorry, I am confused. Where are you getting the Baptism from Gaffy? Catherine as the mother is correct but Drumclamph is new to me. The Loughlin’s I thought where in Urney Church of Ireland (Aitchisons (Catherine) Ardstraw Presbyterian). Is Stoneyfalls in Drumclamph Parish?
When I look at your link Aghadowey it only takes me to the search where I get the Thomas son of Robert and Lizzie? Are you finding another Thomas?
Thanks for taking the time to look at this.
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From your first post I got the impression only the mother's first name was incorrect.
Can you confirm the full maiden name of the mother.
Is it Catherine Aitchison as aghadowey posted above?
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Drumclamph Parish Church is Church of Ireland-
http://derryandraphoe.org/drumclamph-with-clare-langfield-lower-langfield-upper
Drumclamph townland-
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/strabane-lower/ardstraw-strabane-lower-portion/drumclamph/
I reposted the link for Thomas Laghlin's birth already found to highlight the birthdate which is different from the baptism record that gaffy found.
Stoneyfalls townland is in Ardstraw civil parish-
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/strabane-lower/ardstraw-strabane-lower-portion/stoneyfalls/
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There are a number of baptisms where the parents are given as Robert and Catherine (sometimes Catherine Anne) Laughlin and the address is given as Stoneyfalls: Robert John in 1879; Eliza in 1881; Samuel in 1884; Isabella Mary in 1887; Rebecca Emily in 1890; Margaret in 1892; Thomas in 1894 as previously posted; and Anne Catherine in 1896. They are all recorded as having taken place in Drumclamph parish.
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Thanks for all your work. So Gaffy has found the baptism but for some reason it is not on the civil records. Yes Sinnan Catherine Anne Aitchison is the mother. I believe Robert the fathers parents where Robert and Margaret both Loughlin or Laughlin.
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Just re-visiting the Loughlins again and members were so helpful last time I thought I would cheekily ask again to find a missing record. I said previously I thought Themas’s father and my great grandfather died in 1900 but this can not be right as the record says widower. Robert Loughlin’s youngest child Annie was born in 1896 at Stoney Falls. In the 1901 census the family minus Robert are in Sion Mills. So I presume he had died between these dates. Robert was of full age when he married Catherine Aitchison in 1876 so He would have to be born prior to 1855 ( if I am right thinking full age is 21) I can only see three death records for a Robert Loughlin in Strabane in the time frame, the one in 1900 which has Robert as a widow, one in 1898 with an age of 37 so too young and one 1895 again 37 giving a year of birth around 1858, if full age is 18 this might be a possible however my problem is place of death is given as Sion Mills. Could he have died in Sion Mills still residing in Stoney Falls or is like Tomas’s birth the dearh of Robert is just not on the civil records?
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Have you checked Irish Genealogy site for death of Robert L*ghl*n 1895-1900 which would hopefully cover most spellings of the surname?
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Yes that is where I was getting my three from. Thanks.
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... I can only see three death records for a Robert Loughlin in Strabane in the time frame, the one in 1900 which has Robert as a widow, one in 1898 with an age of 37 so too young and one 1895 again 37 giving a year of birth around 1858 ...
I wouldn't rule out the 1898 death just yet, age could be all over the place back then, I've seen worse. The following looks like a candidate for the informant in that death registration (ie. brother Samuel Laughlin of Tullywhisker):
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Altaclady/Tullywhisker/1750999/
That 1901 Samuel married an Ellen Acheson (maybe a cousin to Catherine Anne?) in 1873, his father was given as Robert:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11261/8130464.pdf
For comparison, Robert Laughlin's marriage to Catherine Ann Atchison in 1876:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1876/11157/8087261.pdf
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Thanks gaffy I’ve had conversations with a descendent of Samuel and Ellen over the years and they.have so many shared names of children with Robert and Catherine that I was sure that they were brothers and suspected like you that Ellen and Catherine were cousins. It was just that age discrepancy which was putting me off. The Robert who died in 1900 is Samuel’s father.
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Samuel and Ellen had a daughter Margaret in 1875, the informant was a Margaret Laughlin:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03102/2137745.pdf
A 57 year old Margaret Laughlin, 'Wife of Robert Laughlin a labourer' died in 1897, the informant was son Robert Laughlin of Stoneyfalls:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05865/4662506.pdf
So it all ties together quite reasonably, regardless of the 1898 death age discrepancy for Robert junior.
Edited to add: A Robert Loughlin (father Samuel, labourer) of Glentimon married Margaret Loughlin (father Robert Loughlin, labourer) of Sion on 8 December 1851 in Urney Church of Ireland, a possibility I suppose. Also just a possibility that the following Loughlin's are siblings of Robert junior and Samuel, note the witness name John J(ames) Atchison which also cropped up in Robert junior's 1876 marriage:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11278/8137130.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11066/8048895.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10949/8001692.pdf
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Thanks again. I was sent details of the Urney baptism records a while back and have a list of Robert and Margaret’s children that was the original basis for my belief that Robert jnr and Samuel were brothers and again many of their siblings names were repeated in their children. With Loughlins marrying Loughlins and a few Aitchisons and also a couple of Hyndmans marrying into the family it gets very confusing.
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I am very interested in this thread. Robert and Catherine were my great grandparents, Isabella was my grandmother and Thomas my great uncle.
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Sorry Jackie just saw your post. We must be second cousins. My gran was Becky who was very close to your gran.
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A belated welcome to RootsChat, Jackie :)
I am very interested in this thread. Robert and Catherine were my great grandparents, Isabella was my grandmother and Thomas my great uncle.
As Andrew C said, you two must be related.
If you make at least one more post, you can use the PM system to communicate with Andrew C and exchange Email addresses.
As information for both of you and others, here's the 1911 census for both your grandmothers-
House 8 in Alexandra Place (Attaclady, Tyrone).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Attaclady/Alexandra_Place/847484/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003393923/
Attaclady Electoral Division, Co. Tyrone.
https://www.townlands.ie/tyrone/attaclady/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12386296#map=13/54.7683/-7.4724
KG
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We must be second cousins. My gran was Becky who was very close to your gran.
The younger sister of your grandmothers, Margaret Hamilton Loughlin married William Loughlin in Urney parish church on 22nd May 1911.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09948/5616799.pdf
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Thanks Kilglassan, I have all the info of Robert and Catherine’s children and their spouses, also Roberts parents and his siblings. The only thing I can’t find for sure is Catherine’s (Atchison) mother.
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Oh my goodness, I remember my dad and gran talking about "Aunt Becky"
Bella had two children, William and Ina. Ina died many years ago and William (my dad) died about 20 years ago now.
Ina had one daughter, Isobel (known as Iris) who sadly died about 8 years ago . Iris is survived by her husband Liddell and 2 children - and I remember Iris talking about Aunt Becky as well and "the Loughins". I can ask Liddell if there are any old photos that he can share.
I would love to know a little more about aunt Becky and a whole unknown side of our family and I would be very pleased if you could send me an email so we can introduce ourselves.
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I presumed you were Wully’s daughter. I have a photo of your dad with my dad, Jim Cowie and my uncle Bert I think your dad must be about 14 in it. I never met you dad but I met your mum at my uncle Bert’s funeral about 16 years ago. I will send you my email.