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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: GJJW_1988 on Thursday 01 December 16 11:50 GMT (UK)
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Hello everyone, firstly allow me to apologise if I have posted this in the wrong section - I am quite new to the whole thing. I am here after someone told me that "if there is any information to be found those on Rootschat will find it". I am completely and utterly stuck with a problem and I am hoping someone here can help me! I am looking for my great great great grandfather, Vincent. He has the following surnames - Miloskie, Muluskie, Mielianckas, Meicukas, Meicueas, Meicklaus, Micklaus, Miller. He was, according to the 1891 census, born in Russia in 1868. However people have told me that the ckas ending of his name sounds more Lithuanian and Baltic and Miloskie sounds more Polish. I have been looking for his immigration records with, thus far, no success. I am also looking for his death and his final resting place, again with no success. I know that he married my great great great grandmother in 1890 (Catherine) and his last child was born Mary Muluskie in 1894 and then...he vanishes! I cannot find him anywhere! I have searched, and searched and found nothing! His wife, Catherine later has a child with another man whom she doesn't marry...this is around 1899. So I am trying desperately to find 1) his immigration records and b) where he vanished to and what happened! I have checked the 1881 census but couldn't find him on the census and so I am lead to believe that he must only have come to the country between 1881 and 1890. Any information or suggestions people can give me would be amazing! I can't help but feel that I am being a bit stupid and the answer is staring me in the face but I cannot find it! This time last year my family had no idea about any of our family history and to have got this far really makes me happy but...to get the last bit would really be the cherry on the cake! I just need some help to get there! I'd mainly, especially, love to find out where he says he came from. Thanks in advance for any help! G
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Was he ever Naturalised, or gain British Citizenship?
Have a read of this:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/naturalised-britons/
Russian History is very complicated and, like most of Europe, boundaries changed over the years.
Someone describing themselves as "Russian" could well be Polish.
Prior to 1917 the Russian Empire included most of Dnieper Ukraine, Belarus, Bessarabia, the Grand Duchy of Finland, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia (including Samegrelo), the Central Asian states of Russian Turkestan, most of the Baltic governorates, as well as a significant portion of the Kingdom of Poland and Ardahan, Artvin, Iğdır, Kars and northeastern part of Erzurum Provinces from the Ottoman Empire. Even Alaska until 1867!
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Gosh GJJW - you have indeed thrown down a challenging challenge!
Welcome to Rootschat!
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Hi and a warm welcome to Rootschat
Just putting the 1891 up here, to save us all looking for it:
1891
10 Frederick Street, Manchester
Vincent Miloskic 23 cabinet maker bn Russia
Catherine 23 bn Manchester
John 1 mth bn Manchester
John Whitcomb 24 boarder shoe maker bn Russia
Have you got Vincent and Catherine's marriage cert? Who does Vincent name as his father?
Have you followed John Whtcomb at all to see if his whereabouts can offer any clues?
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Hello! Wow! So many responses so fast! Yes I do have their marriage certificate. His father is listed as Simon (although in Russian it could be Simeon) and he is listed as a farmer.
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Unfortunately I am unaware if he was ever naturalised. I forgot to add that my great great grandmother recounted a story to my grandmother that her father (Vincent) died and they had to go and live with another family...however I believe this was a fabrication just to either comfort my ggg grandmother as she would have been only a child or it was favourable to telling everyone he deserted them! As you can imagine...I am kind of hoping he did pass away and didn't desert them but I am prepared for anything. Spidermonkey - yes everyone I have spoken to thus far has said that it was definitely a challenge! My own family have been looking for years and never got this far. Due to the different spellings of his name I have had to keep searching for similar sounding names in the hope that they were related and then order their birth or death certificates in the hope I was on the right track. It's been a hard slog to get this far. Unfortunately anyone who would know anything about it have either passed away or unfortunately are in no way healthy enough now to recount the history due to alzheimer's. So it's just down to me
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I tried to find John Whitcomb, but again he has eluded me thus far!
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There are Alien Entry Books for the period 1794 to 1921. They are at TNA but are available via Ancestry. They are not indexed, so it would mean going through dozens of books.
(On edit). There's a handwritten index at the end of each book, under Alien's Name, grouped together by first letter of last name,
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/alien-entry-books/
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Do you have Mary's birth cert? Is Vincent described as a cabinet maker on that too?
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Have you checked out the marriage of Vincent MARAUCKAS in DEc qtr Bethnal Green 1c 446?
Married either Constance Buikewicz or Laura Smith
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what year, spidermonkey?
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whoops - 1900!
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Just putting this 'out there'.......
On the 1910 US census there is this family that looks interesting:
William Marauckas Head Mar 37 Married 13 years bn Russia (Lith) Parents both bn Russia Lith
Konstania Marauckas Wife Mar 32 4 children bn Russia (Lith) Parents both bn Russia Lith
Anatosia Marauckas Dau 11 bn Germany
Elzberta Marauckas Dau 8 bn England
Witolia Marauckas Dau 4 bn Maine
Kustantia Marauckas Dau 1 8/12 bn Maine
Top 4 people all immigrated in 1904 according to this census.
(Living in Nashua Ward, HIllsborough, New Hampshire)
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On Elizabeth's (sic) marriage to Charles Dichard, Elizabeth's parents are given as William Marauckas and Constance Buchauich. I can kind of see how Constance's surname could be written as Buikewicz or Buchauich so I am liking this to be the same couple who married in Bethnal Green - albeit with the change between William and Vincent.
Problem is, is it the same Mr Maruackas who was originally married to Catherine?
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How does the German born daughter fit in?
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How does the German born daughter fit in?
Trying to work that one out myself - I didn't say it was a perfect fit, just an interesting possibility.
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How does the German born daughter fit in?
She marries as Antoinette Irene Marauckas, and again states her birthplace as Germany.
She is aged 23 on 17th Sept 1922 - does that mean she could have been born in wedlock but in Germany (brain is hurting too much to do the maths!)
ETA - no - she would have been born between Sept 18th 1898 and Sept 17th 1899
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In FreeBMD there's a marriage of Vincent Mielianckas to Catherine Clinton in Manchester in March 1890.
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There is this birth registration
Elizabeth MARAUSCKAS mother maiden name BRUKAVITS
Q1 1902 WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 175
So the family should be on 1901 UK census
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Still can't see them on the 1901 census, but I think I have them on a passenger list in 1904!!!
Wincas Ma....ckas
Constantine
Antonina
Elizabeth
Heading to brother: Anton? Masausckas, 4 [can't read] Street, Tennford Falls, Maine
Arriving 18th Sept 1904 from Southampton
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Just found outward list on Ancestry - Vincent is a gas fitter
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1901 RG13/568/75/15
Albert Road Kates Place, Woolwich, London
Marauscki family. All b Poland Russia
William 27 stoker gas works
Kostanciej 24
Antoniej 2
2 lodgers
Cas
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Well done Cas!
So, it looks as if there is a discrepancy in ages as well as name between Vincent (bn 1868) and William (bn c. 1874) as per 1891 and 1901 censuses.
Is this an insurmountable discrepancy ???
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Still can't see them on the 1901 census, but I think I have them on a passenger list in 1904!!!
Wincas Ma....ckas
This Wincas has an approx birth date of 1871, so perhaps he was flexible with his age :)
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Also, I can see Wincas (prob pronounced Vincas) being anglicised as either William or Vincent and possibly both.
Pheno
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Would they have been Jewish? There's a big Jewish population in Manchester. If he went to Britain in 1880s or '90s it may have been to escape pogroms.
If they came from Poland, Ukraine or Lithuania they may have been Catholic. Likewise big Catholic population in Manchester. There may be a baptism of child with names of godparents. Where did parents marry? There are Ukrainian Rite Catholics.
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Hi everyone! wow that took off fast! Thank you one and all, you're helping massively. I don't remember who mentioned.it but the marriage of Clinton and Mielienckas is the right one...that's my Vincent and Catherine. Hmm, any ideas where to go from here? I am stumped by all this information! What would you all suggest is the most likely course of action? Did anyone find Vincent's death? Thanks again guys you're all fantastic!
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I think it is all still very much "work in progress", GJJW-1988, looking at possibilities and trying to follow them through to see if anything comes up which either makes them more likely and worth looking deeper , or alternatively something comes up that rules that possibility out completely.
Lots of Family History research follows that pattern! And it can take a long time to actually get to a "conclusion", either proven or just by the weight of circumstantial evidence one way or another! Maybe years.
Have a look through all these posts carefully one by one and get your head around what is being looked at. Try googling, or looking closer at what has already been found, you just never know where the next "possible" may be found!
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Nashua, where they moved to in New Hampshire, seems to have a strong Lithuanian connecting including 2 Lithuanian cemeteries http://global.truelithuania.com/new-hampshire-1083/
Perhaps it might be worth seeing if there is a local library/newspaper archive. You might be able to find obits etc.
And Lizdb's advice is a good one - at the moment there is no confirmed link between the two Vincent marriages.
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Thank you all soo much! It means so much to me! I am sure you all know this feeling of banging your head agajnst a brick wall feeling like you've exhausted all possibilities. May I ask one last favour...has anyone found his death between 1894 and 1897/9? I am trying to make sure I am not just being dim and missing him somewhere.
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This might be a long shot. I looked in FreeBMD and there was one death that might be close:
March 1895, Vincent J A Markesky, Wolverhampton
The surname is a little like some that you mentioned earlier.
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Good spot on the surname Vance, but I think it can be discounted. Using the GRO index, which gives age at death, it looks as if full name was Vincent James Alexander Markesky and he died aged 5.
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Thank you all sooo much for your help! It's been massively massively helpful! I did have one last thing to ask...we had a theory that possibly Catherine's partner Michael Brannan (with whom she had a child but didn't marry) had a wife by the name of Bridget and we cannot find her death anywhere and we can't find Vincent's death anywhere - is there a chance they ran off together? What do you all think? Her name was Bridget Brannan/Brennan.
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In 1901 were Michael and Catherine Brannan in 21 Gould Street, Manchester?
If so, then on the 1891 census, it does look as if Michael's wife was Bridgit: RG12; Piece: 3242; Folio: 61; Page: 38
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There are a couple of Bridget Br?nn?n deaths in Manchester between 1891 and 1901 - neither are a perfect fit with her age from the 1891 census (which gives DOB as 1851) but this one is the closest: Bridget Brennan aged 41 died Jun qtr 1896.
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Yes they were in Gould Street, his profession was something to do with beer or pubs. Ah OK, so that death might be her in 1896. Thanks guys!
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Children on 1901 - all born Manchester - were Patrick 25 [MMN Scanlan], Winifred 15 [MMN poss Riley], Bridget 12 [MMN Scanlan], Catherine 8 [MMN Scanlan], Vincent 9 [MMN blank on GRO index]. Mary 4.
Here are Michael & Bridget in 1891
RG12; Piece: 3242; Folio: 61; Page: 38; 21 ?Back Holgate St, Manchester
Michael Brannan 45 poultry dealer b Ireland
Bridget Brannan 40 b Ireland
Patrick Brannan 15
Mary E Brannan 9
Winifred Brannan 4
Bridget Brannan 2
All children b Manchester
Josey
PS What was the address where Catherine's Mary ca 1899 was born & how was she registered?
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Here are Michael & Bridget in 1891
RG12; Piece: 3242; Folio: 61; Page: 38; 21 ?Back Holgate St, Manchester
Michael Brannan 45 poultry dealer b Ireland
Bridget Brannan 40 b Ireland
Patrick Brannan 15
Mary E Brannan 9
Winifred Brannan 4
Bridget Brannan 2
All children b Manchester
I think she might be Mary Ellen reg Q2 1882 in Manchester Volume 08D Page 287
mmn Scanton - maybe misprint or mistranscript of Scanlon
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Aha good, but can you find Vincent's & Mary's MMN?
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and could this be Winifred?
Q3 1886 Manchester Volume 08D Page 331 mmn Scanlon
The mmn Riley didn't seem right
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On the 1911 census, I suspect that Vincent and Mary are going by the surname Miller. There are some Brennans living with them, including a Kate Brennan which looks to be a good approximation of Catherine Br?nn?n
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Could Vincent be Catherine's son with Vincent M..... (so many different spellings)
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Well, to be honest, I was assuming he was :-[ He is not in the correct place if they had sequenced the children in age order, and they aren't in gender groupings, so I assumed that Vincent and Mary
were step children (even if they weren't identified as such on the census).
There are a few Mary Millers born in Manchester c 1898, so I'll see if any of them have Clinton for a MMN
There is a birth for Mary Alice Muleiskey in Mar qtr 1897, Manchester
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Could Vincent be Catherine's son with Vincent M..... (so many different spellings)
That's what I thought & was trying to work towards ;D; good spot on the potential stepchildren, Spidermonkey I had wondered why ages were out of sequence.
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There is a birth for Mary Alice Muleiskey in Mar qtr 1897, Manchester
that's her mmn Clinton
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Beat me to it, must learn to type faster ;)
So was she registered Muleiskey as Catherine was still married to Vincent, even if Michael Brannan was her father?
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So it looks as if we need to kill off Mary Agnes Muluskie (bn M qtr Manchester 1894) MMN Clinton
I wonder if the child John (as mentioned on 1891) was actually John Vincent M****?
John Meicukas Jun qtr 1891 Manchester MMN Clinton
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Mind officially blown - I was 100% sure! That Mary Agnes was the one?! He death notice said she was born around 1894! I'm stumped!
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Remember that the information given for a death cert is only as accurate as the person giving it. Sometimes, I'm hard pressed to remember how old I am (21, natch!) so if it was a neighbour giving the info, then they might well have said "she was about 70" for example.
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True but...I have the birth certificate for Mary Agnes...and her mum was given as Catherine (nee. Clinton) and Vincent M....so it's seemingly the same woman!
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John died
Deaths Sep 1891
Meicukas John 0 Manchester 8d 194
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Yes, sorry I should mention I know about John and even found his burial plot. Thank you though!
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So was she registered Muleiskey as Catherine was still married to Vincent, even if Michael Brannan was her father?
I suppose we don't actually know when Vincent deserted Catherine - he doesn't marry again (if indeed it is the same Vincent) until 1900 so potentially Mary Alice was Vincent's daughter :-\
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OK - now I am baffled. Mary Agnes Muluskie born 1894 is the daughter of Vincent and Catherine - I have the birth certificate. I am stumped as to who this one born in 1897 is...
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Do we have marriage certificates/details for Vincent 1892 or Mary 1897 to see who they say their father was?
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:D baffling is what we do best ;)
The 1901 census for Gould street has these people:
Michael Brannan 60
Catherine Brannan 34
Patrick Brannan 25
Winifred Brannan 15
Bridget Brannan 12
Catherine Brannan 8
Vincent Brannan 9
Mary Brannan 4
We're trying to work out who Vincent and Mary are
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Mary Agnes Mulskie dies in Sept qtr 1894 (Manchester 8d 173)
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There is a Vincent Meicklaus reg Q1 1892 Chorlton 8c 794 from freeBMD, but can't find him yet on new GRO index
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Right...OK...I think that there's some mix-up somewhere because I was sure that they were THE Mary and Vincent born in 1892/3 and 1894. We found a baptism record Sarah Brennan and it said her mother was Catherine nee. Clinton and Michael Brennan. So I think there is confusion somewhere. I understand that they could get the census wrong but why the birth certificate
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Vincent Meicklaus is the son of Vincent the potential Russian - I have his birth cert. He dies in WW1
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I don't think there has been any mix up - it's just that there is 2 Mary M***** MMN Clinton.
Children of Vincent senior and Catherine Clinton look to be:
John (b.1891, d.1891)
Vincent (b.1892, d WW1)
Mary Agnes (b.1894, d.1894)
Mary Alice (b. 1897, d after 1911)
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OH MY GOD! I've been looking at the wrong Mary! Well this is a turn up for the books! I cannot believe this! Thank you all so much!
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So is it Mary Alice who is your relation?
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Yes! It was her that started this hunt off in all honesty! She would tell my grandmother stories about Russian ancestors etc. and yet we never got the full story hence me looking for it all but when I found Mary Agnes Muluskie born 1894 (and it fit roughly with her reported age at date of death) and she had the same initials and I never knew she had a sister that died I just guessed I'd got the right one...I mean, you would wouldn't you if the information all fit! Oh wow! This changes things!
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To be honest you were given an extra hindrance with the M**** surname (that we've all given up trying to spell ;) )
I would look to get the 1900 marriage cert for Vincent, because our conclusions kind of hinge on that one being the same one who married Catherine Clinton.
Mary Alice's birth cert will still say dau of Catherine Clinton and Vincent M****, so I guess you would have to go down the route of DNA testing to see whether the father was really Vincent or actually Michael.
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Well! This is all amazing! Yes, that's the 10th version of his name that I have come across now! OK, so it would seem that getting that marriage certificate is going to be the next step! And her birth certificate! Hmm - I am hoping that Vincent is the father! How do you mean about the DNA? Like from a relative or one of these DNA testing type things?
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Well! This is all amazing! Yes, that's the 10th version of his name that I have come across now! OK, so it would seem that getting that marriage certificate is going to be the next step! And her birth certificate! Hmm - I am hoping that Vincent is the father! How do you mean about the DNA? Like from a relative or one of these DNA testing type things?
I am 99.9% certain that Mary Alice's birth cert will name Vincent as the father - but because you don't know when Vincent disappeared, you don't know whether he really is the father or just named as such (I think there was a presumption of husband being the father with regard to a married woman).
As for DNA - I am not the most au fait with DNA testing, but I would imagine that it could be possible to compare the DNA of a descendant of Michael and Bridget with a descendant of Mary Alice (i.e. you!) to see whether there is any shared links - which might indicate whether Mary Alice was Michael's daughter or Vincent's (it's all a bit Jeremy Kyle - who's the father!!)
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I am 99.9% certain that Vincent is the father...but of course there is that 00.1%. That's kind of put a downer on it now, our family have always been enthralled by this Russian link that we are supposed to have and then to find out that actually it might all be a lie...
Hmm, well I don't actually know any of the relatives! To be honest we had absolutely no idea that Brannan even existed! No-one in our family had a clue that he existed! We have always just been told about Vincent!
I am trying to find maybe a baptism record to see if Vincent was present at the baptism...any ideas?
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Sorry I should clarify that we are extremely proud of our Irish heritage - Catherine herself was Irish and more Irish people exist in our family too. I just meant it was all a bit...shocking to find that there is a very large possibility that everything we had been told was in fact...a lie, or just a mistake.
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What might be a good plan, would be to see the birth cert of Mary Alice. That should give you an address, and you might then be able to trace electoral rolls to see if Vincent and Catherine are living together.
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Ah of course! Brannan was living on Gould Street! If the birth certificate says Frederick Place then it's more likely to be Vincent! Even if he did run off! The complete rotter! OK. And then you recommend getting a hold of the marriage certificate from London? Do you think it's quite likely to be him?
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Also if Bridget dies in Jun qtr 1896, Mary Alice is born in Mar qtr 1897 - that is very, very tight in Michael and Catherine getting together and 'doing the do' that would get Mary Alice born 9 months later. ;)
Personally, I would get the London marriage - you would know whether you have the answer or whether it is back to the drawing board!
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OK, sorry what are you saying about Bridget and Mary - that it makes it less likely? Also I was thinking if Mary was the daughter of Michael and Vincent has scarpered...why wouldn't she call Mary, Brannan so as to make it seem proper. It makes less sense, to my inexperienced mind, to call her Muleiskey if she is in fact a Brannan? I have ordered Mary's certificate already! In January it'll be a year since I started this journey! Hoping to crack the mystery before a year is out! I shall order the marriage too!
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OK, sorry what are you saying about Bridget and Mary - that it makes it less likely?
Yes - (if the Bridget dying in Jun qtr 1896 is yours). Even if Bridget died in March 1896 and Mary Alice was born in March 1897 (which is the greatest gap that it could be for those quarters) then that is 12 months for Michael and Catherine to get together, get pregnant and give birth. Not unfeasible, but perhaps not the most likely situation.
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I don't think they lived a million miles away from each other.
This view http://maps.nls.uk/view/126522815#zoom=4&lat=7349&lon=2572&layers=BT should show Gould Street to bottom left, just flanking the gas works. Frederick Place is top and centre between Nelson Street and Pilling Street
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Firstly I'd like to thank you all for your help! I received the birth certificate this morning of my great great grandmother! She was born in December 1896 in 56 MASON STREET MANCHESTER (ANGEL MEADOW). Her father was given as William Muliesky - now unless that's a spelling error or a deliberate name change I am not sure but I was desperately hoping to enlist your help again in an attempt to find William and to follow up on a suggestion that someone made of checking the electoral registers? How would I manage that? I guess I am now looking, potentially, for a William that died in the Manchester/Lancashire area. Any ideas? You all came through for me massively last time - desperately hoping you can help me now!
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Couple of other births that might narrow down dates-
Agnes Brannan born June qutr 1895 Manchester mmn Scanlon died 1896 (Brennan) age 1
Michael John Brannen born June qutr 1898 Manchester mmn Clinton died June quarter 1898
Isobel
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Thank you! That last one is definitely mine - so to speak
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There are some posts about the Angel meadow area on the Lancashire board on a topic Angel Street.
Googling Angel Meadow brings up several sites.
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Hi. Yes I have chechecked those, thanks for the advicem I really appreciate. I am mainly focusing now on finding Vincent/William and where he went. He either died or deserted his family...the only trouble is I have no idea where he went! I cannot find him anywhere!
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Hi, new on here.
The Michael Brennan and Bridget Scanlon you refer to are my Great Grandparents. Bridget died
in June 1896, the children Patrick, Mary Ellen, Winifred, Bridget and Catherine are all their
children.
On the 1901 census Vincent and his sister Mary are listed as Brennans simply because their
Mother was living with Michael. He was stated as being a beer seller because the address where
they were living was actually a pub.
On the 1911 census, Vincent and Mary are down as Miller as it seems Michael is no longer alive.
Kate is the Catherine listed on the 1901, she is my Grandmother.
I would say that the three children on the 1911, Edie, Sarah and Michael are the children of
Michael and Catherine.
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Hi JayJay, how are you?
WOW! Just wow! I am so happy that you got in touch! I never thought I would actually find someone this closely related to the situation! Thank you so much for getting in touch! I have so many questions! So, if I have understood the situation correctly, your great grandfather was Michael Brennan, with whom my great, great, great grandmother, Catherine Clinton, lived? Sorry if I have got that wrong! I don't suppose you have any more details about the period of time when Michael and Catherine lived together or what happened to lead to them living together do you? Do you happen to have any photographs of anyone from around that time? As you may have seen from the previous pages of the forum I am trying to find anything out about a man named Vincent (possibly William), I don't suppose that name ever arose did it? Not that it should. Sorry for all the questions it's just that, as you can tell from the title of the forum I have been really struggling to find anything at all to help me and was close to giving up, so your message has got me interested again! Thanks so much for getting back to me, I look forward to hearing back from you soon! Thanks again and have a great weekend if I don't hear from you before then! G
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Hello G.
Now that you sound really happy, I feel sure that you'll soon feel very let down again.
I myself have not been able to get back any further than Michael and Bridget, and being
as Bridget died young and Catherine (my Grandmother), died when my Mother was only
thirteen, not much information has been passed down at all.
The only Vincent that I found any information on was the younger Vincent, Catherine's son.
I found that he was killed during WW1 at Passchendaele and that his name appears on the
Memorial at the Tyne Cot cemetery.
I don't even have any photographs to speak of as they all seemingly, were lost. I'm really
sorry that I can't help you any further, I wish I could.
Thank you for getting back to me so quickly and best of luck with your search. J.
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Hi Jay jay! No not at all, don't worry, these things happen and I completely understand how you feel! It's frustrating isn't it! I'm just really happy to have found someone as closely linked as you! I still think that we could work together and help each other! So what more do you know about Michael and Catherine living together in the pub? I'm trying to work out whether my great great grandmother, Mary, was the daughter of the man named Vincent or your Michael Brennan because the date Mary was born was around the time that Vincent vanished, and Catherine started to live with Michael. I'm pretty sure that she was Vincent's, his name's on the birth certificate etc. but just looking for any more clues. Thanks again for getting in touch. G
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Hi G,
As I said, I don't have any further information regarding Michael and Catherine, I don't
even know when he died.
My challenge has been to try and get further back with him and Bridget, but being as
they were both born in Ireland has left me with nowhere to go - the names Brennan and
Scanlon in Ireland are kind of like Smith and Brown over here.
Best of luck with your search. J.
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Hello G, I hope your search is going well and that you are making some headway.
Mine is not so good as far as the Brennans are concerned. I am clutching at straws
here, but do you have any information on my Grandmother's half siblings namely
Michael, Edie and Sarah Brennan - children of Michael Brennan and Catherine
Clinton/Miller.
My thoughts are that if I could find any of them it might give some sort of clue as
to the whereabouts of Michael and his eldest son Patrick. I cannot find a death for
Michael (senior), nor any trace of Patrick.
Please let me know if you have any further information. J.