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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Dorset => England => Dorset Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Archivist_47 on Saturday 03 December 16 10:31 GMT (UK)
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William James Smith (1854 Sherborne - ?), son of James Smith (1821 Nether Compton -?) and Elizabeth ?
WJ Smith married Harriet Cherrie Miles (1866 Christchurch, Hampshire - 1933 Folkestone, Kent) and they had two children while living in Barbados. William Richard Lyne Smith and Mavis Lyne Smith. HC Smith later took the name Lyne as well.
Where does the name Lyne suddenly come from? Is WJ Smith related to the Lyne family of Cornwall / Dorset?
I found an obscure reference to a WJ Smith being not only an employee of the Royal West Indian Mail Steam Company, but a nephew of a member of the Lyne family in Westbourne Park, Paddington. My WJ Smith was Superintendent Royal Mail Service West Indies stationed in Barbados.
Can anyone untangle this?
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I have a few occasions in my family tree of a grandmother's maiden name being used as an additional forename.
Also some families, that are closely linked, using each other's surnames as forenames?
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Are you certain William James Smiths father is James Smith b n Compton 1821?? on census occupation is labourer
On marriage William James Smith age 39 Bachekor occ Commander RMS address Southampton father James WILLIAM Smith occ RN retired
one of the witnesses was Frances A J A Barstow
it seems she was the widow of Henry William Barstow and her nmaiden name was Lyne
marriage 1877 Henry William Barstow & Frances Amelia Julia Ann Lyne
might this be the link??
Suz
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this looks like Frances in 1871
44 Leamington Rd Villas Paddington Middlesex
Richard Lyne Head M 57 retired licen victualler Rame Cornwall
Amelia wife 54 Stonehouse Devon
Frances A J A daughter U 18 Paddington Middlesex
RG10 3 46 12
I think Amelia's maiden name was Mann
will delve further
Suz
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Hi
There is one birth of a William James Smith in Sherborne Mar 1854 mother's maiden name Taylor.
The 1861 census does give a James smith 40,Elizabeth 38,Ellen 12,William 7 and boarder Ann Smith 82 which would fit.
James Smith and Elizabeth Taylor married Sherborne June 1845.
Mary Ann sep 1846
Ellen Dec 1848
boy Mar 1852
completes the family from their marriage until 1861.
There is a William James Smith s of a Mr Smith and Miss Lyne at Stoke Dameral Mar 1852. Sister Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith Sep 1849 .Marriage that corresponds James smith and Frances Lyne June 1846 Stoke Damerel.That would look more likely.
19.4.1846
James William Smith bach mariner 64 George St s of James mariner
Frances Lyne soinster Borough of Plymouth William Lyne yeoman
wit Amelia and Richard Lyne
Frances d of William and Frances Lyne baptised 29.6.1817 at Rame, Cornwall
Ciderdrinker
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/19082a94-5778-4615-a0ec-a759bac85d10&ved=0ahUKEwitypm3kt3QAhXKJsAKHXknBSQQFggdMAE&usg=AFQjCNHF41StLkAs_sz1mjtJfua2DbBg6w&sig2=rZmdftSeu6XWy0TCE6pKbA
Gives marriage of William and Harriet
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hi
Baptism James William Smith 1.2.1814 at East Stonehouse s of James and Ann Smith seaman Stonehouse.
1841 census Clarence St
James 55 navy y
Margaret 35 y
Jane 15 y
Charlotte 15 y
John 12 y
James 27 navy y
That seems to be them
Ciderdrinker
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Looks like more of a tangle than we first started. I suspect that the Lyne name was added by Harriet's to remember a good friend rather than because it was a family name. I can find no concrete proof of the latter from all the suggestions here. And, I'm more confused now about who William James Smith's parents were.
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Hello
Well if William James Smith was the one born in Sherborn in 1854 to James Smith and Elizabeth Taylor then there is no connection.
If on the other hand if he was born 1852 in Plymouth then his mother Frances Lyne baptised 29.6.1817 was the younger sister of Richard Lyne of Paddington who was baptised Rame 4.7.1813 .
It seems Westbourne Park was an area in Paddington and Richard is on Westbourne Park Road in 1861 census so would have been the Mr Lyne of Westbourne Park and William James Smith would be his nephew.
Do you have any proof of William James Smith place of birth? That or a definate date of birth would be the clincher.
Ciderdrinker
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According to their marriage certificate, William James Smith was 39 when he married Harriet on 21st December 1893. I make that 1854 as his birthdate.
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As you probably know ages on marriage (or death) are not always accurate.
As Harriet Cherrie was only 26 when William James Smith married her then it would not beunusual for him to knock a year or two off his age -keeping him under 40 - also exact age didn't seem to be so important at that time
To me it seems most likely the 1852 birth Stoke Dameral is the correct one for "your" William James Smith- also he had a sister Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith b. 1849 (from previous posts y ciderdrinker)
Hopefully this will help you untangle
this is the marriage from image of Parish register
Page 199 Entry no 397
St Peters in the Parish of Parkstone county of Dorset
Marriage by licence
William James Smith 39 Bachelor Commander RMS address Southampton father James William Smith occ Royal Navy (retired) (note Retired not deceased)
Harriet Cherrie Miles 26 spinster address Parkstone father John Miles occ Miller
witnesses John Sidney Hudson, ???????(sorry can't read 1st name)Maria anne Hawker and Frances A J A Barstow
all signed
it seems 1901 William James Smith's father was still iving and had daughter (now married) Elizabeth Mary Lyne Huntingdon living with him
1901
279 Uxbridge Rd Hammersmith
James Smith Head W 87 Retired Naval Officer Stonehouse Devon
Thomas S Huntingdon Married 54 Surveyor Stanstead Essex
Elizabeth M L Huntingdon daughter M 51 Devonport
Constance M Huntingdon granddaughter 23 Weybridge Surrey
Frances A Huntingdon granddaughter 17 Shepherds Bush London
RG13 4182 13
(there is a complication with Elizabeth Mary Lyne -but will come to that later!)
and one of the witnesses at William James /Harriet Cherrie marriage was Frances A J A Barstow
Frances Amelia Julia Ann Barstow was the widow of Henry William Barstow
Her maiden name was LYNE - she was the daughter of Richard Lyne and Amelia
and William James Smith was the son of James William Smith and Frances Lyne
at the marriage of James William Smith and Frances Lyne the witnesses were Richard and Amelia Lynne
Richard Lyne and Frances Smith (neeLyne were brother and sister)
Frances Amelia Julia Ann Barstow (neeLyne) was the daughter of Richard and Amelia Lyne
so Frances Amelia Julia Ann was the cousin of William James Smith
William James Smith was the nephew of Richard Smith
if you go back over previous posts you will find references to this information
When you feel ready to read the complication with William James Smith's sister Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith just ask
Suz
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Thank you Suz you have put your heart and soul into this. My grandmother was Mavis Lyne Smith, daughter of Harriet Cherrie Smith. Some of my cousins were given the Lyne Christian name at birth so the origin of their names will no doubt be of interest to them.
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Hit me with the Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith Suz. And I see that you're a Holmes researcher, I too have been exploring that surname.
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will post information later tonight
Suz
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Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith
birth reg Set qtr 1849 Stoke Damerel
1871
17 Hyd?? Cottages greenwich
James W Smith head W 55 Storekeeper? Greenwich Hospital School Stonehouse Devon
Elizabeth M L daughter U 21 Devonport
Susan Cain servant 19 Deptford Kent
RG10 754 89 25
1881
38 Loftus Rd Fulham
James Smith head W 64 retired clerk Plymouth
Elizabeth Smith daughter U 31 Devonport
Sydney Raven grandson 5 Southend Essex
Constance Raven granddaughter 4 Weybridge Surrey
Constance Stedman servant 17 general servant Horsham Sussex
RG11 62 120 28
the Raven grandchildren were the children of Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith
she married the father of the children in 1882
Marriage by licence
23 Nov 1882
St Luke W Holloway Islington
Thomas Sidney Raven full age Bachelor Auctioneer Annette Rd father Joseph Raven deceased
Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith full age spinster father James Smith retired Naval Officer
witnessesJames William Smith Sarah Tims
their children were baptised after the parents married
BaptismsSt Stephen Shepherds Bush
all baptised on 21 Nov 1883
Parents Thomas Sydney Raven and Elizabeth Mary Lyne
address 38 Loftus Rd
father's occupation Surveyor
Sydney Lyne Smith Raven born 16 Jan 1876
Constance Maude Smith Raven born 13 Dec 1876
Frances Anabel Raven born 4 Sept 1883 (Elizabeth Mary Lyne's mother was Frances and Thomas Sydney Raven's mother was Anabel
as you will have noticed on 1901 census Thomas Sidney & Elizabeth Mary Lyne and the children have the surname Huntingdon - that is because Thomas Sydney changed his name -supposedly by putting a notice in the newspaper -he had a couple of spells in prison - you can read the full details on the Old bailey site
28 May 1877 Thomas Sydney Raven was charged at the Old bailey of unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Arthur Briant an order for the payment of 100 with intent to cheat and defraud and was sentenced to penal servitude
He had also been found guilty of similar charge in 1866
22 Oct 1888 old Bailey
Thomas Sydney Huntingdon age 44 was charged with feloniously offering a forged acquittance and receipt for £99 7s 6d with intent to defraud - during the case it was confirmed he had changed his name from Raven to Huntingdon He pleaded guilty to a previous conviction May 1877 after a former conviction of 8 years penal servitude
so that's where the Huntingdon came from!!
When he married he described himself as a Bachelor but he was already married with children!!!
Marriage Page 25 entry 49
St Mary Islington
Thomas Sydney Raven full age widower (haven't found his previous wife) Gent 5 Willow Cottages father Joseph Raven occ Gent
Ellen Sarah Spokes full age Widow 43 Alfred St father John Abraham Windsor wholesale stationer
witnesses Henry Billy & Catherine Smith (wonder if Catherine was related to Elizabeth mary Lyne Smith??)
Ellen Sarah Windsor married William Spokes Dec qtr 1865 Clerkenwell
Ellen Sarah had 2 children with Thomas Sydney Raven (later Huntingdon)
1871 Ellen Sarah Spokes was a 23 yr old widow living with her mother and brother
1881
71 Dynevor Rd Hackney
Ellen Windsor Head W 55 Annuitant Clerkenwell
Ellen Raven daughter 33 MARRIED SEPARATED solicitors wife
Sydney Raven grandson8 Islington
John Raven son 7 Islington
RG11 282 96 41
1891
71 Dynevor Rd Hackney
Ellen Windsor Head W 65 own means Islington
Ellen S Raven MARRIED 43 Pattern card maker Bermondsey
Kate Windsor daughter U 34
Sydney W Raven grandson 18 Clerk Islington
John A Raven grandson 17 Pattern card Maker Islington
RG12 180 69 9
interesting ?
Suz