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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Tickettyboo on Sunday 04 December 16 21:39 GMT (UK)
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I have a US airman, born in Kentucky, grew up in Indiana if that is at all relevant, who was killed on 6th March 1944, along with the rest of the crew, when the plane crashed (with a full payload of bombs) just after take off from Great Dunham, Norfolk, England.
I have lots of documentary evidence of this but what I don't have, and don't know where to look for it, is an actual death certificate.
If he had been a UK serviceman, I would look at the (separate to the civilian population database) UK General Register Office database of British Nationals Armed Forces Deaths Register, and using the references given in that could apply for the death certificate, but am unable to find an equivalent for the US.
Checking the available databases for registered deaths in the UK draws a total blank for any of the ten men who died so I am assuming that the US authorities did their own thing.
Could anyone point me in the right direction please? I am aware that a death cert may not provide any new information, but I just got curious about this.
Thanks
Boo
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You could search for Cemeteries where US service men and women may be buried. in the UK
Could well be in Norfolk or Suffolk.
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Are US rules the same as UK, ie a death has to be registered where it took place? Can you give us his name?
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Thanks ScouseBoy though I very much doubt that there would have been much in the coffin (full payload of bombs went off on impact, Lord love them) I have documentary evidence that a coffin was taken back to the US in 1948 and know where it was buried in Indiana.
Its the official certification of death I am wondering about.
Boo
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Have you checked that a certificate wasn't issued in the US before the coffin was buried ie in 1948?
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The American cemetery at Madingley is the official site in the UK so it may be worth contacting them or searching these links
https://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries-memorials/europe/cambridge-american-cemetery#.WESPE_mLQ2w
http://www.visitcambridge.org/things-to-do/cambridge-american-cemetery-and-memorial-p508201
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Are US rules the same as UK, ie a death has to be registered where it took place? Can you give us his name?
Short answer is that I am trying to ascertain the answer to whether or not the rules are the same, or if the usual rules that a death in the UK must be registered with the UK authorities would have applied in WW2 with US servicemen based here.
His name was James Aloysius HEILMAN and the details of the crash can be seen here:
http://www.b24.net/missions/MM030644.htm#cnl
Boo
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The answer may be contained in an Act called "The Visiting Forces Act" or something similar.
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Have you checked that a certificate wasn't issued in the US before the coffin was buried ie in 1948?
Well I checked in Indiana, which is where he was living from the age of 3 weeks till he joined up. His family were all there and there is nothing in the database for him. Though his funeral and the burial took place there. Nothing in the Social Security Death Index (not sure if that is the right terminology) for the US for this man either.
Boo
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There is a photo of James in this link if you don't have one and would like one
http://www.b24.net/aircrew/hnames.html
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There is a photo of James in this link if you don't have one and would like one
http://www.b24.net/aircrew/hnames.html
Thank you David, yes I already have that one ( I once spent a very strange hour comparing that photo to one of his brother to see if I could spot a family resemblance! - couldn't see it but the provenance of both photos was just tickettyboo!).
I actually have most of James' life documented, the only thing I am missing is an official death cert. There may not be one, but that is what I am trying to find out as I have no idea of the US process for death registration of military personnel who died overseas.
Boo
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Why don't you try to find a US Veterans Agency web site based in The US.
Or alternatively search for a United States ex-services web Forum
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Wonder if this is any good?
Active Duty Military Personnel
Deaths of active duty military personnel are reported to the Defense Department. For information relating to individual casualty case files, call (800) 325-4988; email askhrc.army@us.army.mil; or write to U.S. AHRC, AHRC-PDC-P, 1600 Spearhead Div. Ave., Fort Knox, KY 41022-5405
from https://www.archives.gov/research/vital-records/american-deaths-overseas.html
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The Visiting Forces Act 1952 may contain some clauses or sections which relate to your question.
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Wonder if this is any good?
Active Duty Military Personnel
Deaths of active duty military personnel are reported to the Defense Department. For information relating to individual casualty case files, call (800) 325-4988; email askhrc.army@us.army.mil; or write to U.S. AHRC, AHRC-PDC-P, 1600 Spearhead Div. Ave., Fort Knox, KY 41022-5405
from https://www.archives.gov/research/vital-records/american-deaths-overseas.html
Thank you! I'll do that :-)
That is what I was looking for (and failed to find) though its Army not USAF they may well be able to point me in the right direction :-)
Boo
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The Visiting Forces Act 1952 may contain some clauses or sections which relate to your question.
That was after he died though.
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Good luck. There must be a certificate somewhere, just a matter of finding it! Do let us know if you have any success.
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If I remember correctly, It was the USAAF during WW2. IE US Army Air Force
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Why don't you try to find a US Veterans Agency web site based in The US.
Or alternatively search for a United States ex-services web Forum
And you think that they might have a death certificate?
I don't.
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Good luck. There must be a certificate somewhere, just a matter of finding it! Do let us know if you have any success.
I'll report back as and when I get any further info.
Thanks to everyone for the replies, suggestions and help.
Boo
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The Visiting Forces Act 1952 may contain some clauses or sections which relate to your question.
That was after he died though.
The 1952 Act probably replaced an earlier act with similar provisions.
Secondly, The Geneva Convention possibly contained provision for deaths in combat on enemy territory.
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The Visiting Forces Act 1952 may contain some clauses or sections which relate to your question.
That was after he died though.
The 1952 Act probably replaced an earlier act with similar provisions.
Secondly, The Geneva Convention possibly contained provision for deaths in combat on enemy territory.
None of this has any relevance to Boo's search for a death certificate though, and just confuses the issue.
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I am grateful for all of the replies, but to save anyone poking around for stuff I already have the documents I have for James (so far!) can be viewed here
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9dvypykg3c5ekly/AAAAxnwoVzs91YXIxgz6OWE9a?dl=0
Boo
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The Visiting Forces Act 1952 may contain some clauses or sections which relate to your question.
That was after he died though.
The 1952 Act probably replaced an earlier act with similar provisions.
Secondly, The Geneva Convention possibly contained provision for deaths in combat on enemy territory.
None of this has any relevance to Boo's search for a death certificate though, and just confuses the issue.
The relevance is that there would be a "protocol" or an agreement between the allies as to how to deal with certain eventualities.
Just as there were agreements concerning the BAOR and later BFG.
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The Visiting Forces Act 1952 may contain some clauses or sections which relate to your question.
That was after he died though.
The 1952 Act probably replaced an earlier act with similar provisions.
Secondly, The Geneva Convention possibly contained provision for deaths in combat on enemy territory.
None of this has any relevance to Boo's search for a death certificate though, and just confuses the issue.
The relevance is that there would be a "protocol" or an agreement between the allies as to how to deal with certain eventualities.
Just as there were agreements concerning the BAOR and later BFG.
What has Roald Dahl's BFG got to do with it?! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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British Forces Germany
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"Death and marriage records of U.S citizens that occurred in a foreign country
Reports of deaths of persons serving in the Armed Forces of the United States (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, or Coast Guard) or civilian employees of the Department of Defense are not maintained by the U.S. Department of State. In these cases, requests for copies of records should be sent to the National Personnel Records Center (Military Personnel Records), 9700 Page Ave., St. Louis, Missouri 63132-5100."
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/w2w/foreign.htm
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I checked on the obvious source Free BMD. Not on there. Or could there be a variation of his name?
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Make a new thread over on the website WW2talk with his name, rank and date of death and the Airforce experts there will help you out. Cheers Maria
P.S. put a copy of the link to this page so they can see what's been tried already
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I have lots of documentary evidence of this but what I don't have, and don't know where to look for it, is an actual death certificate.
Boo
"Death and marriage records of U.S citizens that occurred in a foreign country
Reports of deaths of persons serving in the Armed Forces of the United States (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, or Coast Guard) or civilian employees of the Department of Defense are not maintained by the U.S. Department of State. In these cases, requests for copies of records should be sent to the National Personnel Records Center (Military Personnel Records), 9700 Page Ave., St. Louis, Missouri 63132-5100."
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/w2w/foreign.htm
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Nothing in the Social Security Death Index (not sure if that is the right terminology) for the US for this man either.
Boo
The US Social Security Death Index was not fully up and running until 1962 so most unlikely James Aloysius Heilman would have appeared on it.
Sandra
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Not really much help Tickettyboo but I suspect the dc would be held somewhere back in the States. As you said maybe the US authorities did their own thing. The reason I say this is that I lived very close to RAF Burtonwood which was used by the USAAF bombers during WW2 and was still a USAAF base until the late 70s/early 80s. They would have open days once a year and we'd visit. Anyhow the base to all intents and purposes was part of America - currency, policing, laws, driving on the wrong side of the road!, etc. Given it was WW2, it occurred almost at the end of the runway and that the death was in action then I think it lies with the US Military.
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Hi all,
Unless you are related to the deceased, it may be difficult for you to get a death certificate. But here's some help that may get you closer to finding out.
First, don't bother with the National Personnel Records Center (Military Personnel Records). There was a fire there in 1973, and 80% of the records were destroyed. Also, forget the U.S. Department of Defense. They do only modern wars there.... Veterans Affairs is the U.S. government agency that deals with those who served (past tense) in the military or navy.
I found a link on the U.S. National Archives site (https://archives.utah.gov/research/indexes/3769.htm) that took me to the Utah State Archives (Division of Archive Services, technically). There I found that death certificates for American casualties overseas in World War II were issued by a now-defunct U.S. agency, the Federal Security Agency. That agency had more to do with social welfare than national security. It "oversaw food and drug safety as well as education funding and the administration of public health programs and the Social Security old-age pension plan," according to Wikipedia.
The Utah website says this: "Even though these certificates were filed long after the date of death, it was necessary by law to obtain a death certificate before burial. They were issued by the Federal Security Agency to be filed at Utah's Bureau of Vital Statistics and they were accompanied by a federal health permit number which allowed shipment and burial in the United States."
Unfortunately, this information doesn't clarify the situation. I think it was the state of Utah that required a death certificate, because death and burial come under the purview of the individual U.S. states. So perhaps a death certificate was sent to Indiana for Lt. Heilman's burial by the Federal Security Agency. No guarantee, though. Also, and unfortunately, Indiana requires proof of relationship and proof of identity to obtain a death certificate (see this link: https://vitalrecords.egov.com/CDC.VitalRecordsMVC.Web/Wizard/IN/Pricing/PricingInformation).
So this information is only informational (which is why it is called information). Governmental bureaucracies or agencies never clarify anything! But you might e-mail Kfrogge@isdh.IN.gov at the Indiana State Department of Health. "K" in the email address stands for Kathleen. Last name begins after that letter. She is a program coordinator or some such title--one of the few people in the directory who wasn't a clerical assistant or data analyst.
A good place to go might be James Heilman's Find a Grave entry, where you can e-mail the gentleman who created the entry on Find a Grave. He lives in Indiana, so he'll probably be able to help you with your search. (The person who currently maintains the entry lives in the state of Maryland--not close at all to Indiana). Be careful not to confuse these gentlemen. (Both are named John.)
James Heilman's funeral, according to the obits you linked to on Dropbox, was held at St. Patrick's Church in Kokomo, Indiana, with his brother Thomas officiating. Thomas Heilman is mentioned on the church's website in a list of priest's born in that parish, so the church might have some biographical info on him and might possibly be able to tell you if a funral home was involved in the funeral. The address for the church is 1204 North Armstrong, Kokomo, IN 46901. No e-mail address, unfortunately.
If you were to get a funeral home's name, a death certificate might be in the records there.
Finally, just found this in a search: a link to what may be his brother Daniel's picture (6 rows down, third from left) in his high school yearbook (at Kokomo High School, 1943: http://www.howardcountymemory.net/item.aspx?details=9833.
Heilman is fairly common name in the U.S. Midwest, so a search by surname only might not be fruitful.
Regards,
John :o :o :o