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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: Eldon on Monday 05 December 16 19:52 GMT (UK)
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The 1881 census has the address of 1, Gerddi, Rhuddlan (Flint) St Asaph, Denbighshire, Wales.
Ref: RG11,piece 5528, folio 18 page 1.
It is the home of John Edward Jones aged 29 born in Llangynog and a collector for fire act insurance.
With him is his wife and 3 children.
I have always thought that it was part of Millbank Road in Rhyl, but now I'm not sure. I think that Rhyl was still part of Rhuddlan, at this time, hence the address above. Why is Denbighshire shown in the address?
This family did settle in Rhyl and appear in subsequent censuses in Clwyd Street.
Please if anyone has the local knowledge to pinpoint the address, I would appreciate it.
Thank you...Eldon.
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Could it be Llys y Gerddi a street in Rhyl with a LL18 2YS postcode which is within the Vale of Clwyd ward/electoral division.
And this "Llys-y-gerddi is a street in the settlement of Rhyl governed by Rhyl Community council in the administration area of Sir Ddinbych - Denbighshire Council located in the Wales Euro Region of the UK."
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Hello Crisane: No. I found that name, but none of the property in that area was built on the 1880s.
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I can't pinpoint it exactly,but perhaps the following may help:-
A newspaper article that refers to Gerddi Terrace,Cefndy Road(and perhaps to the family?)
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3851752/3851755/24/
The address "Gerddi" seems to appear from the 1861 to 1881 censuses,generally numbering up to 7.
In the 1861 census it is listed next to Cefndy Farm.
Regards
Roger
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In the 1881 census Gerddi is listed next to "Yacht" and then Bethel Terrace.The Bethel Chapel still exists,of course,on Vale Road opposie Ty'n Rhyl.This map show the location of "Yacht (Farm)"
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/300647/381238/12/100506
Could Bethel Terrace be the unnamed group of buildings next to the Chapel and Gerddi(Terrace) the unnamed group on the corner of Cefndy Road/Vale Road?
Regards
Roger
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I suppose you are aware that Gerddi translates as garden?
Can you name other neighbouring houses or roads on that Census, please?
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The 1881 census has the address of 1, Gerddi, Rhuddlan (Flint) St Asaph, Denbighshire, Wales.
Ref: RG11,piece 5528, folio 18 page 1.
It is the home of John Edward Jones aged 29 born in Llangynog and a collector for fire act insurance.
With him is his wife and 3 children.
I have always thought that it was part of Millbank Road in Rhyl, but now I'm not sure. I think that Rhyl was still part of Rhuddlan, at this time, hence the address above. Why is Denbighshire shown in the address?
This family did settle in Rhyl and appear in subsequent censuses in Clwyd Street.
Please if anyone has the local knowledge to pinpoint the address, I would appreciate it.
Thank you...Eldon.
that first line quoted above is rather a confused mosh mash of. Place names. Rhyl, rhuddlan and St Asaph. Today are all in the county of Denbighshire
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The 1881 census has the address of 1, Gerddi, Rhuddlan (Flint) St Asaph, Denbighshire, Wales.
Ref: RG11,piece 5528, folio 18 page 1.
It is the home of John Edward Jones aged 29 born in Llangynog and a collector for fire act insurance.
With him is his wife and 3 children.
I have always thought that it was part of Millbank Road in Rhyl, but now I'm not sure. I think that Rhyl was still part of Rhuddlan, at this time, hence the address above. Why is Denbighshire shown in the address?
This family did settle in Rhyl and appear in subsequent censuses in Clwyd Street.
Please if anyone has the local knowledge to pinpoint the address, I would appreciate it.
Thank you...Eldon.
I live in Denbigh, not far away, if I have spare time I may try and ask questions for you.
There is a Castle at Rhuddlan, I wonder whether. There could have been a Castle Garden?
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Ellon, I am puzzled by this, giving it someb thought.
Have you looked for the address on the 1939 register?
I could possibly pop into the Denbighshire planning office tomorrow and ask for their help, they. May have an old map
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In the 1881 census Gerddi is listed next to "Yacht" and then Bethel Terrace.The Bethel Chapel still exists,of course,on Vale Road opposie Ty'n Rhyl.This map show the location of "Yacht (Farm)"
Could Bethel Terrace be the unnamed group of buildings next to the Chapel and Gerddi(Terrace) the unnamed group on the corner of Cefndy Road/Vale Road?
Like Roger I can't find it named on a map, but going by the other locations on the census I agree that it's in this area. You can see 'Yacht' here
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102181588#zoom=4&lat=1952&lon=8070&layers=BT
This posting on Rhyl History Club places it in the Cefndy area
My great great grandmother (Amelia Hoskins) and her two sons (Ellis and my own Great-Taid Edwin) lived in Gerddi cottages, in Cenfdy area, in the 1860s, but I don’t know where that is… long since demolished I’ve no doubt,
https://rhylhistoryclub.wordpress.com/2011/09/22/rhyl-in-the-60s/
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Just found this, Gerddi Terrace on Cefndy Road.
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3851752/3851755/24/cefndy%20AND%20gerddi
You can do a search of the Rhyl Advertiser here http://newspapers.library.wales/home and there are several hits for Gerddi, some of which place it on Cefndy Road.
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I have been out for the evening. Thank you all for your replies. My subscription for FindMyPast has just expired and I was checking through 'my records' and I came across this address. I now think the 7 cottages were near the junction of Cefendy Road and Vale Road. Yacht farm is 7 acres and that would probably be the area where Roger Jones is now.
Thank you Despair for the paper cutting. That may have solved the brick wall that I have with this family. The death of David Price Jones is not possible because he lived to be over 70 and lived in Mostyn. There was another child Robert Wallace Jones who also died but he became my wife's grandfather. Are you still with me?
In the 1911 census this family stated that they had 8 children and 4 had died. I only knew of 7.
Now the Robert Wallace Jones died also aged about 3yrs and there is a death certificate, but they must have conceived another boy and gave him the same name, but there is no birth certificate. It now seems possible that they did the same with David Price Jones, and that could account for the missing child. Again I cannot find a second birth certificate. (The original D P jones was born 3Q 1878 at Wrexham and that corresponds to the death in the paper)
The family appear to have saved themselves the cost of 2 birth certificates.
The families births and deaths are all recorded at St Thomas in Rhyl, so I now need to check the register for the death in 1881. I have old maps of Rhyl which I copied in the library. But they are in a safe place.
Again thank you all for your replies.
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I can see your problem.There is continuing census,marriage and 1939 register data relating to David P(rice) Jones born 1878,and no death record in 1881.Perhaps,in the old saying "..reports of his death were premature.." There is,however,a death record for Robert Wallace Jones in 1881.I think David Price Jones later names his son Robert Wallace Jones in 1900.
Regards
Roger
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There is a further anomaly,in that David Price Jones is registered in the Wrexham area in 1878,and Robert Wallace Jones in 1878 in the Holywell area only one quarter apart.
The 1881 death record for Robert Wallace Jones in Rhyl gives his address as "Gardens" the equivalent of "Gerddi" as ScouseBoy pointed out.
(I suppose it is too much of a coincidence that The Coronation Gardens are directly across the road from the proposed location for Gerddi?).
Regards
Roger
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This will muddy the water!
The newspaper cutting identified by Despair and JenB is clear enough. It concerned the death of David Price Jones on the 21/10/1881. However the death certificate for Robert Wallace Jones is also the 21st October 1881 at Gerddi in Rhyl. He too was 3years old and died of convulsions with his father present at death. Why would the paper list the death of one child and not the other?
There is no death certificate for D P Jones. So it seems to me that the newspaper has got its facts wrong. It would be interesting if they printed an apology.
Incidentally, David Price Jones was married 1898 aged 23 and died 1955 aged 79. Birth circa 1875/6
There is a birth reg 2Q 1876 at Wrexham. The census has him aged 4 which would be correct.
Coronation Gardens opened 1952? backs onto the Botanical Gardens which I think were Edwardian.
Despair; What records are you referring to when you say the address for RWJones was the gardens?
Also (to my knowledge) DPJones did not have any children. I cannot find a birth reg for a RWJones in 1900. However your link of RWJones and DPJones in 1900 is interesting. Do you have any more detail please?
Thank you again for the work you have done.
Regards Eldon.
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Newspapers still get their facts wrong today.
They are full of mistakes
Even the BBC. Make mistakes. They got my name wrong once
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Eldon, I apologise if I have muddied the waters.
The newspaper article I cited was the result simply of a search for the address Gerddi, as I was trying to find where it was located in answer to your original question. It was not the result of any specific surname search. I think between us Despair and I have found the location satisfactorily.
Please if anyone has the local knowledge to pinpoint the address, I would appreciate it.
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Sending PM to Eldon with apologies-got the wrong David Price Jones marriage and offspring.
Regards
Roger
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To JenB; The newspaper cutting not only answered the question but actually concerned the family. Thank you for finding it. I did look in subsequent papers for an apology but could not find one.
Regards Eldon.
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Do you require any more research on maps locally?
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No thank you ScouseBoy, the maps that show Yacht Farm also show a nearby terraced row of houses on Cefendy Road. That will do for me.
Thank you for your contributions and assistance.
Regards Eldon.