RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: dbree on Wednesday 07 December 16 15:22 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Commonwealth War Graves Commission has issued an appeal....
"We wish to make contact with family members of the following casualties."
BARR, Henry Keith d. 25/10/1916, 38th King George's Own Central India Horse
BROWN, John Nixon d. 05/08/1914, Cameron Highlanders
CAMPBELL, William d. 01/03/1916, Highland Light Infantry
COWAN, George d. 10/12/1917, King's Own Scottish Borderers
SAPWELL, Arthur Frederick Charles, d. 15/06/1919, Royal Munster Fusiliers
SAPWELL, Christopher Lorton, d. 16/08/1918, Army Veterinary Corps.
WYSE, Robert, d. 09/02/1918, Royal Scots
Further details of these men can be seen here,
http://www.cwgc.org/news-events/news/2016/12/appeal-for-relatives-dec-2016.aspx
DB
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Arthur F C Sapwell born 1897 - appeared on the 1901 census Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire.
Edwin Sapwell 32 Born 1869 Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire,
Sarah A Sapwell 30 Born 1871 Eynsham, Oxfordshire,
Arthur F C Sapwell 3 Born 1897 Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire
Sidney W E Sapwell 1 Born 1900 Newport Pagnell, Buckinghamshire
Ida B Eeles 13 Niece.
Sidney was Sidney William E Sapwell.
Arthur Frederick Charles Sapwell - Mothers Maiden Surname Holliday
GRO Reference: 1897 S Quarter in Newport Pagnell Volume 03A Page 823
Sydney William Edwin Sapwell Mothers Maiden Surname Holliday
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in Newport Pagnell Volume 03A Page 833
Looking at births - there were other siblings
Harold Frank Rupert Sapwell - Mothers Maiden Surname Holliday
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in NNewport Pagnell Volume 03A Page 903
Florence Evelyn Sapwell - Mothers Maiden Surname Holliday
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in Newport Pagnell Volume 03A Page 1003
Stanley Edwin Frederick Sapwell - Mothers Maiden Surname Holliday
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in Newport Pagnell Volume 03A Page 986
Kenneth Cyril Claude Sapwell - Mothers Maiden Surname Holliday
GRO Reference: 1911 M Quarter in Newport Pagnell Volume 03A Page 1006
FIND A GRAVE
Pvt Arthur Frederick Charles Sapwell - Plot: Special Memorial- as it is not possible to mark his actual grave.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=142721592&ref=acom
Sandra
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Brother Sidney W Sapwell shows in the British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 - living C/ O Mr Bale The Woodland's, Wilsie Nr Doncaster. Discharged 1919. Address on discharge St James Street, Stanton Mary Bucks.
Sandra
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Sydney W E Sapwell - 1900 March 1958 - North Bucks. Buckinghamshire. 6a 479
Probate Sydney William Edward Sapwell - died 15 February 1958 - Buckinghamshire England.
Probate 13 August 1958 - Registry London England.
Sandra
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Wife of Sydney above - Nora Agnes Sapwell 27 November 1897 passed away September 1980 aged 82 years - North Bucks - Volume 19 Page 1077
Sandra
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Sydney and Nora A Jeffrey marriage registered September 1920 - Newport Pagnell 3a 2785
There are 5 births of children to this couple - can't name at moment.
The first child - Frederick A G Sapwell - born 1926 died December 1930 - aged 4 years - Newport Pagnell. 3a 1121
Sandra
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I have contacted a few family member of the Sapwell family regarding Arthur Frederick George Sapwell.
Sandra
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Also contacted member of the family of SAPWELL, Christopher Lorton, d. 16/08/1918, Army Veterinary Corps
FIND A GRAVE
Pvt Christopher Lorton Sapwell - Plot: Special Memorial (S.E. corner, South wall)-as it is not possible to mark his actual grave.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=142721665&ref=acom
Sandra
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Henry Keith Barr - born 1872 Bengal India son of on of David William Keith Barr and Constance Frances Guillum (Unknown) Barr
Major Henry Keith Barr 1873 – 1916
Henry Keith Barr was born at Indore, India, on 20th August 1872. The eldest son of
Lt.-Col Sir David William Keith Barr. He became a Gentleman cadet at the Royal
Military Academy, Sandhurst and assumed his 1st Command on 13th August 1892
with 38th King George’s Own Central India Horse.
He fought in the Tirah Campaign, 1897-98 and received a medal and 2 clasps.
On the 3rd Aug 1916 Henry Keith Barr married Elsie Violet St Clare Matthews at
Brompton Parish Church. Less than 12 weeks later Henry died from an illness
contracted on active service with the Indian Army in France on 25th October 1916.
His widow, Elsie died June 1920, aged 24.
http://www.rh7.org/factshts/barr.pdf
I have contacted a relative of Henry Keith Barr.
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
Major Henry Keith Barr
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=161478535&ref=acom
Sandra
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Probate for Elsie Violet St Clare Barr wife of Henry Keith Barr
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
Pvt John Nixon Brown born Barony, Glasgow, Lanarkshire passed away 5 August 1914
Casualty of the Great War,John was one of the first casualties of the Great War-war having been declared the day before his death.He served with the 5th Bn.Cameron Highlanders~Service No:6849. He was 30.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=137239880&ref=acom
Sandra
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I have contacted a few family member of the Sapwell family regarding Arthur Frederick George Sapwell.
Sandra
Wowza, well done Sandra. ;D These names should now pop up on a google search, fingers
crossed.
PVT. William Campbell
Death: Mar. 1, 1916
Casualty of the Great War, Private Campbell served with the 8th Bn.Highland Light Infantry~Service No:7167.
He was 21 and the son of the late William and Jane Campbell of Lanark.
Find A Grave
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=168989592&ref=acom
He was accepted for commemoration as war dead on 23rd August 2016, and his name was immediately added to the United Kingdom Book of Remembrance.
Cheers,
DB
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Wow Sandra,
You've been busy & nice to see you've managed to contact some relatives.
Annie
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PVT. William Campbell
Death: Mar. 1, 1916
Casualty of the Great War, Private Campbell served with the 8th Bn.Highland Light Infantry~Service No:7167.
He was 21 and the son of the late William and Jane Campbell of Lanark.
Sadly Db,
Too common on SP for a birth as Lanark area has so many RD's
Annie
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PVT George Cowan
Death: Dec. 10, 1917
Casualty of the Great War, George served with the King's Own Scottish Borderers-Depot-Service No:16718.
He was 20 and the son of James and Georgina Cowan of Maxwelton, Dumfriesshire.
Find A Grave
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=153136312&ref=acom
He was accepted for commemoration as war dead on October 2nd 2015, and his name was immediately added to the United Kingdom Book of Remembrance.
Cheers,
DB
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Major Henry Keith Barr 1873 – 1916
Henry Keith Barr was born at Indore, India, on 20th August 1872. The eldest son of
Lt.-Col Sir David William Keith Barr. He became a Gentleman cadet at the Royal
Military Academy, Sandhurst and assumed his 1st Command on 13th August 1892
with 38th King George’s Own Central India Horse.
He fought in the Tirah Campaign, 1897-98 and received a medal and 2 clasps.
On the 3rd Aug 1916 Henry Keith Barr married Elsie Violet St Clare Matthews at
Brompton Parish Church. Less than 12 weeks later Henry died from an illness
contracted on active service with the Indian Army in France on 25th October 1916.
His widow, Elsie died June 1920, aged 24.
http://www.rh7.org/factshts/barr.pdf
I have contacted a relative of Henry Keith Barr.
Sandra
Star you are Sandra. ;D That was a sad one.
Cheers,
DB
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Thanks Guys - it would be really great if some rellies come along. Dbree you're a star as well ;D
Reply 15 George Cowan - Possibility 1901 census - 16 Millar Street Motherwell
James Cowan 32 Born Dumfries. Gen lab.
Georgina Cowan 30 Born Dumfries.
John Cowan 12 Born Dumfries.
Georgina Cowan 10 Born Dumfries.
James Cowan 8 Born Dumfires.
George Cowan 4 Born Dumfries,
Joseph Cowan 2 Born Dumfries.
Sandra
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Thanks Guys - it would be really great if some rellies come along. Dbree you're a star as well ;D
Reply 15 George Cowan - Possibility 1901 census - 16 Millar Street Motherwell
James Cowan 32 Born Dumfries. Gen lab.
Georgina Cowan 30 Born Dumfries.
John Cowan 12 Born Dumfries.
Georgina Cowan 10 Born Dumfries.
James Cowan 8 Born Dumfires.
George Cowan 4 Born Dumfries,
Joseph Cowan 2 Born Dumfries.
Possible marriage:
COWAN JAMES & GILLOOLY GEORGINA
1888
821/ 12
Dumfries
Annie
Added for the benefit of a google search, Surname for Georgina could vary Gillooly, Gilhooly, Gillooley, Gilhooley & more
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Have contacted a relative of George Cowan and the Cowan family
James Cowan married Georgina Gilhooley 23 Janaury 1888 - Dumfries.
Georgine passed away 31 Oct 1937 - Dalziel, Lanark, Scotland.
Suspect son John Cowan - Dalzell Lanarkshire - Father James -
John joined in Aberdeen 3-9-1914 - discharges 14-12- 1914 (not likely to become an efficient soldier on medical grounds. :'()
Sandra
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Well done Sandra,
The CWGC may offer you a job ;D
Annie
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PVT. William Campbell
Death: Mar. 1, 1916
Casualty of the Great War, Private Campbell served with the 8th Bn.Highland Light Infantry~Service No:7167.
He was 21 and the son of the late William and Jane Campbell of Lanark.
Sadly Db,
Too common on SP for a birth as Lanark area has so many RD's
Annie
Suspect that this could be the parents of William Campbell - 1901 Census 6 Lamb Street Hamilton Lanarkshire
William Campbell 32 Born Lanark. Flescher - Shopkeeper.
Jane Campbell 30 Born Hamilton.
William Campbell 6 Born Hamilton.
John Campbell 4 Born Hamilton.
Agnes Campbell 3 Born Hamilton
Janet Campbell 1 Born Hamilton
Allan Campbell 2 Months. Born Hamilton.
Peter Burns 26 Lodger.
Patrick McCourt 24 Lodger.
1891 - 7 Whitehill Road hamilton Lanark
John McClusky 50
Christina McClusky 51
William Campbell 22 Born Lanark/ Boarder. Flesher.
James Robb 21
Sandra
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There was a marriage Bonhill - 1892 - Janet Ralston to William Campbell - opposite direction to Hamilton though. ???
William Campbell - 1892 - 493/ 100 - Bonhill
Janet Ralston - 1892 - 493/ 100 - 100 - Bonhill
Sandra
Added This does not look like the correct marriage - according to death certificate shown later - parents William Campbell and Jane Robertson.
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IF that is the right connection for William - may have found a relative - will contact and see what they say ;D We'll see, it could be a long shot :-\
Sandra
Added British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920 - William Campbell - 7167 - Highland Light Infantry - Territorial Force Attestation - 1913
Factory Hand - employed by M McDougall - lives at 20 Castlegate - appointed to 8th Bn Highland Light Inf.
Next of kin - Aunt Mrs G campbell 20 Castlegate Lanark.
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Robert Wyse - Pvt. 26131 -Royal Scots -11th Battalion - Discharged - 16th May 1917 Cause - Tuberculosis- died 9th February 1918aged 41 years - commemorated- Abbotshall War Memorial, Fife.
Could this be a possibility for Robert ???
1881 Kirkcaldy Abbotshall Fife
John Wyse 36 Elizabeth Wyse 33
Henry Wyse 14 William Wyse 12
Isabella Wyse 10 John Wyse 7
Robert Wyse 5 Janet Wyse 2
1891 Kirkcaldy Abbotshall Fife
John Wise 48 Elizabeth Wise 44
Henry Wise 23 William Wise 21
Isabella Wise 19 John Wise 16
Robert Wise 14 (flax Mill Worker) Alexander Wise 9
Joseph Wise 3
Robert Married ??? 1901 9 Coal Wynd Kirkcaldy Abbotshall
Robert Wyse 24 Cork miller
Susan Wyse 26
Elizabeth Wyse 2
Elizabeth Carr 20
Sandra
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British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920 - Robert Wyse and Susie Carr - married 31 December 1897 - born Invertiel, Kirkcaldy, Fife - Miller - Regiment Name: The Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment)
Children John Wyse (13/11/1902)- Susan Wyse 4/6/1904 - Isabella Wyse 10/5/1909 -
UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 for Robert Wyse
Discharge date - 16 May 1917 - Died after discharge. Royal Scots Lothian Regiment.
Sandra
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Sandra, such good work. ;D Fingers crossed that the messages that you sent along will be fruitful.
Just realized that CWGC's contact link "UKNA Technical Link" doesn't work. I have emailed them to let them know that, and according to the reply, I will have a reply within 5 working days.
Cheers,
DB
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The death certificate for William Campbell 1 st March 1916 - shows the parents as William Campbell and Jane (maiden surname Robertson) both deceased.
Sandra
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This looks like a good possibility - Marriage of William Campbell and Jane Watson Robertson - 1892 -
Jane Watson Robertson - 1892 - 647/ 97 Hamilton
William Campbell - 1892 - 647/97 Hamilton
Sandra
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There was a death in Hamilton 1901 which was probably Jane the mother of William Campbell
Jane Campbell - aged 30 years - 1901 - 647/ 567 Hamilton
Sandra
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Have found a possible relative for William, the son of William Campbell and Jane Robertson. Fingers crossed.
Sandra
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All fingers crossed. ;D
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http://buckinghamshireremembers.org.uk/php_scripts/bksidget.php?id=7309
http://war-graves.co.uk/Cemeteries/England/Berkshire/United_Kingdom_Book_of_Remembrance/591433.php
Reply 1 showed a brother to Arthur Frederick Charles Sapwell - Harold Frank Rupert Sapwell - Born June 1902 - Newport Pagnell -
Harold passed away March 1961 Aylesbury Bucks. 6a 391
Married Gladys Nellie Stevens - Registered Newport Pagnell 3a 2115 - June 1923 -
Probate below
Sandra
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Harold's wife Gladys Nellie nee Stevens/Sapwell born 15 November 1903 passed away December 1983 - aged 80 years - North Bucks. Volume 19 Page 1197
Harold and Gladys had 4 children - 3 male and 1 female. 1923 - 1926 - 1930 and 1936
Edwin born in 1926 (3a 1509) Newport Pagnell died in 1926 (3a 1128 Newport Pagenell)
Sandra
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Have tried to contact a family member linked to the brother Harold Frank Rupert Sapwell.
Sandra
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Harold Sapwell and Gladys Nellie had a son Brian Sapwell in 1936 who passed away 2007 Milton Keynes.
Married Barbara C Littlechild 1959 North Buckinghamshire - 6a 1105
son Ronald Leslie Sapwell born in 1923 passed away 2006 Milton Keynes. Married Madge Godfrey 1948 Buckinghamshire 6a 963
Sandra
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Have tried to contact a family member linked to the brother Harold Frank Rupert Sapwell.
Sandra
Had a reply from the owner of the anc tree for Harold Sapwell (brother of Arthur) is only recording blood relatives. (5th cousin 1 x removed)
Sandra
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British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920 - Robert Wyse and Susie Carr - married 31 December 1897 - born Invertiel, Kirkcaldy, Fife - Miller - Regiment Name: The Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment)
Children John Wyse (13/11/1902)- Susan Wyse 4/6/1904 - Isabella Wyse 10/5/1909 -
UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 for Robert Wyse
Discharge date - 16 May 1917 - Died after discharge. Royal Scots Lothian Regiment.
Sandra
Have contacted someone who includes Robert Wyse in there tree.
Sandra
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British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920 - Robert Wyse and Susie Carr - married 31 December 1897 - born Invertiel, Kirkcaldy, Fife - Miller - Regiment Name: The Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment)
Children John Wyse (13/11/1902)- Susan Wyse 4/6/1904 - Isabella Wyse 10/5/1909 -
UK, Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 for Robert Wyse
Discharge date - 16 May 1917 - Died after discharge. Royal Scots Lothian Regiment.
Sandra
Have contacted someone who includes Robert Wyse in there tree.
Sandra
Seems this was the family tree of a friend (3x cousin removed) Still hoping they might point us in the direction of any other family members.
Sandra
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My fingers are still crossed. :)
And thank you so much Sandra, for all your time and effort on this post.
Cheers,
DB
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Thanks DB - just rather sad that no relatives are coming forward so far :'( Perseverance ......when one door closes...............find another. ................ :-\
No response from wiki tree yet - trying another source for a brother of Henry Keith Barr.
Going back to Henry Keith Barr - he had a brother Arthur Guy Barr - 1877–1961
born 25 July 1877 - Indore, Bengal, India - Passed away 16 December 1961 - Gullane, East Lothian, Scotland. Trying to contact anc tree member.
Sandra
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Arthur Guy Barr - Probate
Should be 2 sons and a daughter from this marriage
First son possibly born 1931 GKB (Scotland) - second son 1933 (Dunbar Scotland ?) and the daughter EMB 1936 (Dunbar Scotland ? )
Sandra
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This looks like the FIND A GRAVE entry for the wife of Arthur Guy Barr
Iris Muriel Usher Cunningham Barr - 1895 - 8 June 1967
Burial: Grange Cemetery Edinburgh City of Edinburgh, Scotland.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=152046177&ref=acom
Sandra
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Probate of Constances Frances Guillian Barr (mother of Henry Keith Barr and Arthur Guy Barr) - gives us the name of a daughter - (sister to Henry and Arthur)
Friday 25 April 1930 , Western Times , Devon, England
LADY BARR'S ASHES INTERRED AT HOLCOMBE ROGUS
"the urn, containing the ashes Lady Barr, whose death occurred in Loudon the previous Wednesday, was deposited grave beside that of her husband. Deceased was the widow of Lieut.-Colonel Sir David William Keith Barr, who died in vein her. There also rests .....
Sandra
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Evelyn Constance nee Barr Watkin (sister of Henry and Arthur Barr)
Evelyn 24 July 1874 -
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGQB-S3X
Sandra
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No further clues on the probate of the father of Henry, Arthur and Evelyn - David William Keith Barr - died 22 November 1916 - probate 11 January 1917
Thursday 23 November 1916 , Dundee Evening Telegraph , Angus, Scotland
LIEUT.-COLONEL D. BARR. Lieutenant-Colonel Sir David William Keith Barr, K.C.5.1., died suddenly from heart failure at his residence, Onslow Gardens, just a week before completing his 70th year. Lieutenant-Colonel Sir David ..................
New Year Honours -
Saturday 04 January 1896 , Tamworth Herald , Staffordshire, England
Major-General Montagu GUbertGerard,C.B.,lndian Staff Corps. Lieutenant-Colonel David William Barr, Agent to the Governor-General in Central India* Denzl Charles Jelf Ibbetson, Esq., Indian Civil Service. James John ..
Thursday 17 August 1905 , Sheffield Daily Telegraph , South Yorkshire, England.
THE COUNCIL OF INDIA. The King has been pleased to approve appointment of Lieutenant-Colonel Sir David William Keith Barr, K.C.5.1., lato Resident at Hyderabad, to a member of the Council of India, in the place of Sir Charles H. T. Crosthwaite, K.C.5 .
Sandra
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Deleted - shame I can't delete the post, which didn't add any value to the fact-finding.
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The daughter was Elizabeth Watkins as per probate - passed away 1951 - reply 44
I have the names of the children of Arthur Barr and Iris Muriel Usher nee Cunningham Barr - all born Scotland 1931/33/36 - possibly still living - reply 41
Sandra
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Deleted post, which didn't add value.
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Didn't realise it was all "clutter" :'(
Any help, suggestions are welcome - just trying to follow every lead - when one avenue folds, try another.
Sandra
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Didn't realise it was all "clutter" :'(
Any help, suggestions are welcome - just trying to follow every lead - when one avenue folds, try another.
Sandra
It's not clutter Sandra (I see the relevant post now deleted). You've put in a lot of work.
SC if you find it difficult to follow on separate pages click on 'print' at the top of the page, and you'll see it set out one page.
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It's not clutter Sandra (I see the relevant post now deleted). You've put in a lot of work.
SC if you find it difficult to follow on separate pages click on 'print' at the top of the page, and you'll see it set out one page.
Wow! That's clearer. I'd have never pressed a "print" button, as I don't have a printer.
I find it difficult to "follow" beyond page 1 of most things as it's all so slow loading, then you have to pick out the 10% of a page that is the "post" and ignore the 90% that is graphics/footers etc....
:)
I'm easily confused.
To cross-check what's been discovered would be a whole session of copy/pasting every post across all the pages, then moving them about and deleting quotes/duplicates and dead ends ... to summarise where any thread's got to :)
So I tend to just "leap in" on the last page and post. Not very helpful, I appreciate ... but it's what I do. Else, by the time I'd read through every post, got all the information provided, sorted it all out, understood it .... everybody would've been found, contacted, met up, had their photos in the papers and got on with their lives :)
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Thanks JenB - haven't got any where fast unfortunately :'( - some lines of enquiry were closed because relationships to deceased were distant - other enquiries have not produced any replies yet.
The research for Henry Keith Barr has brought us forward..............
This could be the second son of Arthur Guy and Iris Muriel Cunningham Barr - unfortunately its not giving an age for him ???
BARR Dr St Clair Gordon (Gullane) - Obituary 14 April 2013 -
http://announce.jpress.co.uk/edinburgh-evening-news-and-scotsman-publications/obituary/barr-dr-st-clair-gordon/25943292
Sandra
Added - The gentleman was 80 years old when he passed so it does look like the right connect.
St Clair Gordon Barr - aged 80 years - 2013 - 721/ 23 - North Berwick.
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Clutter... ??? ??? Definitely not.
Perhaps StanleysChesterton you are having keyboards issues, and you really meant to type
"chatter". Yes, we like to chatter about WW1 heroes.
If this finds any of these families, then...chatter accomplished.
DB
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Thanks JenB - haven't got any where fast unfortunately :'( - some lines of enquiry were closed because relationships to deceased were distant - other enquiries have not produced any replies yet.
The research for Henry Keith Barr has brought us forward..............
This could be the second son of Arthur Guy and Iris Muriel Cunningham Barr - unfortunately its not giving an age for him ???
BARR Dr St Clair Gordon (Gullane) - Obituary 14 April 2013 -
http://announce.jpress.co.uk/edinburgh-evening-news-and-scotsman-publications/obituary/barr-dr-st-clair-gordon/25943292
Sandra
Looks like he/wife were/are active in the local community at http://www.aberlady-gullaneparishchurches.org.uk/
Maybe phoning the church to get somebody to enquire of the widow.
Widow's home phone number is findable on Google, but not something I'd recommend :)
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Clutter... ??? ??? Definitely not.
Perhaps StanleysChesterton you are having keyboards issues, and you really meant to type
"chatter". Yes, we like to chatter about WW1 heroes.
If this finds any of these families, then...chatter accomplished.
DB
Ah, maybe you don't see what I see:
A HUGE top page banner.
Huge avatars
Huge footers
By clutter I don't mean what's posted, I mean "all the other stuff on the page and what surrounds each post".
I hope I made that clearer .... not being rude, clutter doesn't mean posts - it means the "page real estate".
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Thanks JenB - haven't got any where fast unfortunately :'( - some lines of enquiry were closed because relationships to deceased were distant - other enquiries have not produced any replies yet.
The research for Henry Keith Barr has brought us forward..............
This could be the second son of Arthur Guy and Iris Muriel Cunningham Barr - unfortunately its not giving an age for him ???
BARR Dr St Clair Gordon (Gullane) - Obituary 14 April 2013 -
http://announce.jpress.co.uk/edinburgh-evening-news-and-scotsman-publications/obituary/barr-dr-st-clair-gordon/25943292
Sandra
Looks like he/wife were/are active in the local community at http://www.aberlady-gullaneparishchurches.org.uk/
Maybe phoning the church to get somebody to enquire of the widow.
Widow's home phone number is findable on Google, but not something I'd recommend :)
Feel free to ring and follow it up - all help is very welcome
Sandra
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Feel free to ring and follow it up - all help is very welcome
Sandra
My second hobby is stuttering and putting my foot in it and confusing people.
Best not me, to be honest.
;)
You can see the mess I make of written communication .... real words come out even worse.
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Deleted
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Clutter... ??? ??? Definitely not.
Perhaps StanleysChesterton you are having keyboards issues, and you really meant to type
"chatter". Yes, we like to chatter about WW1 heroes.
If this finds any of these families, then...chatter accomplished.
DB
Ah, maybe you don't see what I see:
A HUGE top page banner.
Huge avatars
Huge footers
By clutter I don't mean what's posted, I mean "all the other stuff on the page and what surrounds each post".
I hope I made that clearer .... not being rude, clutter doesn't mean posts - it means the "page real estate".
Clearer yes. I see exactly what you see, as does every other RC'er. If you can't ignore the clutter,
then using JenB's tip of "print" would be of value to you, but you would miss out on seeing some
amazing and funny avatars.
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Might have a reasonably good lead on the daughter born 1936 of Arthur Guy Barr (brother of Henry Keith Barr - who CWCG are trying to trace relatives for) and his wife Iris Muriel Usher Cunningham.
Daughter may have married in 1957 Haymarket Scotland (all names seem to match) and the couple had a son and daughter 1958 and 1960.
Husband Denis Frederick Neal Peploe (artist) could have been much older - born 25 March 1914 and whose obituary appears in the Independent 27 May 1993 - passed away aged 80 years.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-denis-peploe-2325662.html
http://www.scottish-gallery.co.uk/images/artists/TSG_Denis_Peploe_Catalogue_for_Web.pdf
Have found the son and know where I can contact him which would help to clarify or discount whether we are on the right track. That is pending for the moment.
Have other info which I won't post at this time because of living people rule.
Sandra
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Just to keep the thread informed - I have spoken to the Secretary of the Great Nephew of Henry Keith Barr and left the details of CWGC.
Sandra
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Well done Sandra, all things crossed. ;D
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Delighted to say that the connections made for Henry Keith Barr were correct and his great nephew was interested to learn of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission Appeal.
Sandra
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Amazing hard work and persistence Sandra. Well done and then some. :)
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Well done Sandra.
Imber
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Amazing hard work and persistence Sandra. Well done and then some. :)
Well done Sandra.
Imber
Thanks guys.
Would like to find something more on this chap
BROWN, John Nixon d. 05/08/1914, Cameron Highlanders.
John was aged 30 years - supposedly born Barony Glasgow Lanarkshire. 5th battalion Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders.
Sandra
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What can we say Sandra...amazing!
One possibility that I can see for John Nixon Brown so far...work in progress...
There is this marriage between a Wallace Brown and Margaret Nixon in 1872 Glasgow https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYWK-M2Y
They have a son John born in the right time frame. From 1891:
W Wallace Brown 38 b. Kilmarnock, Ayrshire
Margaret Brown 36
W Wallace Brown 18
William Brown 16
John Brown 7
Agnes Brown 10
Janet Brown 6
Mary Brown 4
Alexander Pitt 16 visitor
Address: 78 Cedar St, Glasgow/Kelvin
Monica
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1901 here:
Margaret Brown 44 cotton weaver, b. Clarkston, Lanarkshire
Wallace Brown 28
Agnes Brown 19
John Brown 17 Apprentice Moulder
Janet Brown 15
Mary Brown 13
Agnes Goldie 8
James Cherry 3 Months
John Goldie 19
Address 38 Society Row, Glasgow/Milton
A possible death for father at the age of 46, William Wallace Brown, in Milton in 1901 - 644/8 212
Monica
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Sandra, I think we have him in sight...nearly...
We have John Brown, son of William Wallace Brown and Margaret Nixon, in 1901 working as an apprentice moulder.
I believe this John Brown went on to marry (from birth cert clip below) an Elizabeth Walsh in Glasgow in 1903. The name of the boy born in 1908 in Milton (where we have that 1901 census entry above) is showing John NIXON Brown. Father also showing as John NIXON Brown, an iron moulder.
The marriage cert from 1903 would help to tie in this John to the 1891 and 1901 census entries.
Clip below from 1908 birth:
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Commonwealth War Graves Commission has issued an appeal....
"We wish to make contact with family members of the following casualties."
Just curious as to why the Commonwealth War Graves Commission has issued this appeal.
Is this something they routinely do?
While I'm Australian and the men appealed for are from the UK,
the Commonwealth War Graves Commission probably looks after graves of Australian soldiers too.
regards
phenolphthalein
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The John Nixon Brown who married Elizabeth Walsh in 1903 Kelvin was the son of William Wallace Brown and Margaret Nixon
From the 1903 MC:
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John Nixon Brown, aged 30, an army reservist, husband of Elizabeth Walsh died on 5 August 1914 in Glasgow, at Ruchill Hospital. His mother, Margaret Brown, and resident at same address as son John, reported his death that same day.
His son, John Nixon Brown, born in 1908 as we had, died the following year, 1909.
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Absolutely fantastic Monica - knew you would find him ;)
Thank You
Sandra ;)
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Yipee Monica, well done and thank you. :D
Cheers,
DB
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Sandra, I think we have him in sight...nearly...
I believe this John Brown went on to marry (from birth cert clip below) an Elizabeth Walsh in Glasgow in 1903. The name of the boy born in 1908 in Milton (where we have that 1901 census entry above) is showing John NIXON Brown. Father also showing as John NIXON Brown, an iron moulder.
The marriage cert from 1903 would help to tie in this John to the 1891 and 1901 census entries.
Clip below from 1908 birth:
Marriage cert John brown and Elizabeth Walsh
Sandra
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Have found a family tree for Wallace Brown, brother of John Nixon Brown, have sent the tree owner a message with details of CWGC appeal and this thread.
Sandra
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Commonwealth War Graves Commission has issued an appeal....
"We wish to make contact with family members of the following casualties."
Just curious as to why the Commonwealth War Graves Commission has issued this appeal.
Is this something they routinely do?
While I'm Australian and the men appealed for are from the UK,
the Commonwealth War Graves Commission probably looks after graves of Australian soldiers too.
regards
phenolphthalein
It was only recently that it was discovered that John Brown's grave was at Lambhill Cemetery, Glasgow, Scotland. Until then he had been commemorated on the Brookwood Memorial, Surrey, England. It is now intended to erect a CWGC headstone on his grave. It seems likely that the CWGC may wish to invite those with a family connection to attend a small dedication ceremony or similar once the headstone is erected. As regards your query about Australian war graves the following is taken from the CWGC website:
Six member governments make up the Commonwealth War Graves Commission: Australia, Canada, India, New Zealand, South Africa and the United Kingdom. The cost of the Commission's work is met by the member governments in proportion to the number of their war graves. The Secretary of State for Defence in the United Kingdom is the chairman of the Commission. Each of the other member governments appoints its High Commissioner in London to be its Commission representative.
Imber
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Listed on the link below:-
BROWN, JOHN NIXON Private 6849 05/08/1914 30 Cameron Highlanders United Kingdom L. 704. GLASGOW (LAMBHILL) CEMETERY
http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx?cpage=2&sort=name&order=asc
John Nixon Brown was accepted for commemoration as war dead on 7th March 2012.
Reply 11 lists on FIND A GRAVE
Sandra
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Sandra, I have also found this tree here, likely connected to John's sister Agnes Brown who married James Cherry http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/103924275/person/210036894205/facts
I have contacted the tree owner, including the various links from this thread.
Monica :)
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Sandra, I have also found this tree here, likely connected to John's sister Agnes Brown who married James Cherry http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/103924275/person/210036894205/facts
I have contacted the tree owner, including the various links from this thread.
Monica :)
Its the same tree owner as reply 76 - so hopefully they will reply - that would be great.
Sandra
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Delighted to report that the family tree member has replied - doesn't know much about John Nixon Brown - I have asked would she or any other family member be interested in attending a service of commemoration/dedication at Lambhill Cemetery ?
Sandra
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Delighted to report that the family tree member has replied - doesn't know much about John Nixon Brown - I have asked would she or any other family member be interested in attending a service of commemoration/dedication at Lambhill Cemetery ?
Sandra
Keeping everyone updated - The person that that I contacted lives in San Francisco but is going to mention this to other relatives who live in Glasgow. It might still be possible to get a family representative to attend any dedication ceremony that CWGC have in mind. That would be fantastic.
Sandra
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So fantastic Sandra. :)
I orginally posted this, with the hope that a google search would pick up the names for anyone
searching for these men. It has gone so much further with the enormous help of everyone. Thank
you so much all, for your time and effort. :)
Cheers,
DB
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DB and Sandra, any thoughts on what do with, if anything, the original BMD certs viewed (thinking here on my part on John Nixon Brown searches)?
A naive question. Thinking again on the searches for John Nixon Brown and Imber's comments:
...It was only recently that it was discovered that John Brown's grave was at Lambhill Cemetery, Glasgow, Scotland. Until then he had been commemorated on the Brookwood Memorial, Surrey, England. It is now intended to erect a CWGC headstone on his grave. It seems likely that the CWGC may wish to invite those with a family connection to attend a small dedication ceremony or similar once the headstone is erected.....
Is there a similar background to the other names on the list, or is it a variety of reasons why these names feature on the current list by the CWGC?
Monica
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Yes Monica, they all have a similar background. Most such cases have been researched by military enthusiasts and then brought forward to the CWGC for consideration for war grave status. There are currently 1674 such cases under review. The actual location of Barr's grave within the churchyard is unknown so he will receive a special memorial headstone bearing the wording" Known to be buried in this churchyard" or similar. The two Sapwell cases will also receive Special Memorials for the same reason. The actual graves of Campbell, Cowan and Wyse will be marked. Christopher Sapwell's case is unusual in that it was not raised by researchers:
http://great-linford.gov.uk/commonwealth-war-graves-commission/
Imber
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http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/commonwealth-war-graves-commission.html
Relatives are asked to get in touch with the UKNA technical team, contactable at enquiries@cwgc.org
http://www.cwgc.org/contact-us/contact-form.aspx
Sandra
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I have also spoken to a lady at CWGC who wants me to email the information so far on John Nixon Brown and Henry Keith Barr. This I have done and they have acknowledged those e-mails.
Sandra
Added Second confirmation of e-mal received at 17-13 to say they will contact relative of Henry Keith Barr direct.
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This might not be the place to mention this.
An oddity -- my father was an Australian who served in the second world war. When he died we could have had his grave marker paid for by the govt -- however that meant we would not have been permitted any family information on that. So we had our own marker but had to pay extra for the AIF symbol on it.
phenolphthalein
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Just received the personal e-mail address for the family contact for John Nixon Brown in San Francisco and have passed this on to CWGC so that they can make contact direct.
Sandra
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That is great news. Thanks for the updates, Sandra :)
Monica
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COWAN, George d. 10/12/1917, King's Own Scottish Borderers
George Cowan - aged 20 years - father James Cowan (deceased in 1917) Mother Georgina Cowan maiden surname Richardson as per death certificate. Lochmaben 10 December 1917.
Sandra
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This looks like the Cowan family in 1901 - 16 Millar Street Motherwell.
James Cowan 32 Born Dumfries. Gen Labourer.
Georgina Cowan 30
John Cowan 12 Georgina Cowan 10
James Cowan 8 George Cowan 4
Joseph Cowan 2
Sandra
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After his father died, Georgina Cowan went on to marry Edward Currie - Dalziel 1913
Edward Currie - 1913 - 639/ 224 - Dalziel
Georgina Cowan - 1913 - 639/ 224 - Dalziel
No reply from the anc tree owner (message sent 7 December)
Sandra
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Have now found 3 sets of relatives for John Nixon Brown - CWGC are getting in touch with them.
Sandra