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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Completed Look ups => Topic started by: Lalee on Friday 09 December 16 23:00 GMT (UK)
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I have asked for a disc or discs from my son for Christmas this year and I would like some advice as to which ones would be the best to start with. I have seen several posts on here regarding the index of names in Bedfordshire. Does this cover the whole of the county and what information is on it? Are things like dates and places included or is it just literally a list of names?
One of the local families I am interested in is Albone/Albon from Arlesey and I do have a reasonable amount of information about them so should I start with the Arlesey parish records on the basis that I might be able to join the dots better, or go with another parish where I know less about the other side of the family?
With the above in mind I don't know where my Albones came from in the first place so if any one has Silvanus and Caroline, James and Ann Charles, and Joseph and Susanah Hall along with various Thomas' and Abrahams in their tree and you know where the first Albone in that line came from I will know which other parish disc to buy.
Thanks for any advice or information you can offer.
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Well familysearch.org has Albones in Bedfordshire going back to the 1400's but none showing in the 1300's.
So how far back are you with your Albones? Back beyond the 1400's?
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Hello Lalee,
The Beds FHS have produced a pre-1852 Surnames Index CD being a consolidated surname index of all entries for baptisms and burials up to 1851 (beyond in some cases) and marriages up to at least 1837 in the Bedfordshire Parish Registers, as included on their Parish CDs. This has over one million entries with surname, forename, year, parish and event, and also indicates if a baptism, burial or marriage. Entries from the marriage licences are also included for bride, groom and surety.
However, the index consists of an alphabetical list of surnames, and it is up to you to search for all possible variant spellings. It then leads you to the detailed entries on a Parish CD or to the pre-1813 register transcripts in printed form.
It only costs £10 including postage. BFHS also sells you individual parish CDs as you require.
Looking at the surnames index there are lots listed for Albon/Albone names plus other variations that you might overlook. Attached is an extracted sample for you to see typical content
Regards John
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With the above in mind I don't know where my Albones came from in the first place so if any one has Silvanus and Caroline, James and Ann Charles, and Joseph and Susanah Hall along with various Thomas' and Abrahams in their tree and you know where the first Albone in that line came from I will know which other parish disc to buy.
I have these people in my tree, although they are pretty peripheral to my main line - Sylvanus was the husband of my 5th cousin twice removed, so not exactly a close relative!
I don't know where Joseph who married Susannah Hall was from, although I may not have looked very hard for him. I have various Albon(e)s in my tree from the nearby villages in Beds and they're all probably connected. I'll take a look.
David
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As I suspected, these Albones were so remote I hadn't done any research into them.
In 1851 living in Arlesey were Joseph Albone 60 born Arlesey and wife Susan 60 b Whaddon Cambs. There's a baptism in Arlesey on 20 Jun 1790 of Joseph Albon son of Thomas and Mary, which looks to be the right one (per Arlesey PR transcript by BLARS, available from Beds FHS). But I can't find, yet, the marriage of Thomas and Mary, which presumably was before 1788 when their first son was baptised in Arlesey*.
David
* Possible marriage in Shillington 18 Jul 1788 Thomas Aborn and Mary Toaken botp (per Shillington PR transcript). I can't see that they followed up with any baptisms in Shillington.
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Houston, we have a problem!
I think the Shillington marriage may well be the parents of Edward baptised 1788 in Arlesey and your Joseph baptised in 1790. But then the problems start. There was another Thomas Albone in Arlesey who married Mary Lyne there on 2 Apr 1793, bachelor and spinster, both of Arlesey. I'm working on them to try to identify which Thomas and Mary were the parents of the children born after April 1793.
At the moment I don't know which of these Thomas' was the one baptised in Arlesey on 9 Dec 1770, son of Abraham and Ann.
In 1841 there's a Thomas Albon 70 born Beds living in the same household as Abraham Albon 45. In 1851 probably the same Thomas Albon 83 b Arlesey was living with his son George 35. This may be the Thomas who died age 82 in the June quarter 1851.
And then there's the burial of Thomas Albone age 62 in Arlesey on 8 Jan 1830, presumably the other one.
So we have two Thomas' who according to censuses/burials were both born c1768, although I can only find one baptism.
I can feel a frustrating Sunday coming on trying to separate these two Thomas'!
David
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Morning David,
Have you dismissed the Thos ALBAN baptised at Henlow in 1768.
Other ALBAN names have events in Henlow & Arlesey
I see a Thos ALBON baptised Arlesey in 1770
Cheers John
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I think the Henlow Thomas must be one of them; probably the one who married in Shillington; as he seems to have been a year or so older than the one baptised in Arlesey in 1770; son of Abraham; who may have been the one living with his son Abraham in 1841
If I'm right, why the Henlow Thomas should have married in Shillington and then lived in Arlesey I can't understand
Proving which is which will be another matter though!
David
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Thank you for responding and offering advice. I do use the IGI to verify things but I don't find it as useful for finding and comparing as it used to be, that goes for the whole site actually.
John-P. Thank you so much for the extract. Now I have a good idea of what to expect and the names dates and places will be useful. It seems like a very good place to start and good value too.
David, many years ago I got some prints of the microfiche for Albones in this area and using what I already knew I was able to piece quite a lot together from the census info. Then I sat and made a table of names, ages and dates and came to the conclusion that Thomas and Mary Lyne were mine.
At that time I thought James and Elizabeth Devereaux might be the parents of James who married Ann Charles purely because she was from Arlesey, so that was wrong but I did think Thomas and Mary belonged and Abraham and Ann Myatt and Thomas and Mary Amor, but anything further back is really difficult to work out with the information I have which is why I asked about the discs. of course I might be wrong on all this but I know I am right back to James and Ann Charles and I think it was you who helped me decide it was Joseph and Susnnah in reply to my first post so very may thanks for your interest and any help or advice you can give would be vey welcome
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I disagree with your conclusion about Joseph's parents (or at least I think I disagree with it)!
Joseph was 51 in 1841 and 60 in 1851, which ties up exactly with the baptism in Arlesey on 20 Jun 1790 of Joseph, son of Thomas and Mary, so I'm sure we agree so far.
Where we part company is the interpretation of the children baptised in Arlesey with parents Thomas and Mary. I too drew up a list of these children, starting in 1788 with Edward, followed by your Joseph in 1790. It hit me that there was another Edward in 1798 but no burial of an Edward son of Thomas and Mary in the ten years between. Why would they name a second Edward if the first was still alive? Two different families is one answer. When I found that Thomas and Mary Lyne didn't marry until April 1793 (with Thomas being a bachelor, not a widower), with three children already having been baptised up to nearly five years earlier, my conclusion was that there were probably two Thomas and Mary couples in Arlesey, the earlier pair possibly being Thomas Albon and Mary Toaken who married in Shillington in 1788.
And it's trying to prove that hypothesis that I've been working on over the weekend (and I'll probably be asking for John's help in Bedford Archives when I finalise what it is I need eg marriage witnesses which the transcripts don't show.)
I think that Thomas, the father of Joseph, died in Arlesey aged 62 in 1830, whereas the other Thomas, son of Abraham, was alive in both the 1841 census aged 70 ie 70-75, and in 1851 aged 83
It would help if I could find either Mary Toaken or Mary Lyne!
What do you think?
David
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John
If you get a moment in the next couple of weeks between Christmas shopping, putting up decorations and holding glasses of red wine, if you're going anywhere near the Archives, could you very kindly pop in and see if you can find the following (Christmas wish list follows)
Arlesey PR
Burial 13 Aug 1837 Mary Albon
Burial 4 Feb 1821 Mary Albon age 46
Burial 8 Jan 1830 Thomas Albon age 62
Burial Apr-Jun 1851 Thomas Albone age 82
Marriage 2 Apr 1793 Thomas Albon & Mary Lyne. Witnesses?
Shillington PR
Marriage 8 Jul 1788 Thomas Albon and Mary Toaken. Witnesses?
Thanks a lot
David
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Arlesey PR
Burial 13 Aug 1837 Mary Albon
Burial 4 Feb 1821 Mary Albon age 46
Burial 8 Jan 1830 Thomas Albon age 62
Burial Apr-Jun 1851 Thomas Albone age 82
Hello David; All of the above are on the NBI .... the last one being on 30 Apr 1851
When you say 'see if you can find them' are you suggesting they may not be there?
The first 3 are on the BFHS Surnames Index for the year
Using the new GRO index search; the first Mary as ALBONE registered Biggleswade RD in Sept qtr 1837; suggests an age of 75
I will check out marriages for witnesses whenever... I have to email & say I'm coming in, they get a bit tetchy if you just turn up
Joyeux Noel...
Cheers john
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Thanks John
I took the burials from the NBI but wondered if the PR entry gave any more detail. Anything that would help me to separate them. I don't suppose for a minute though that one would have been described as an ag lab and the other a retired brain surgeon.
I got Thomas Albone's death age as 82 from the new GRO search and have no idea why I didn't try the same with Mary's 1837 burial! Senility. I reckon then that the 75 year old Mary ie born 1762 was probably Mary Toaken who married in Shillington in 1788, and the Mary who was buried in 1821 age 46 ie born 1875 was Mary Lyne who married in 1793
No rush
Thanks again
David
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Well as you say the two Edwards are a bit of a problem. So there are two Thomas'
and two Marys. I cant find a Mary Toaken on the IGI at all, and although there are several Mary Lynes or Lynn none of them are born in Arlesey. Sadly I kept my findings, such as they are, but not all the scribbles and notes that led to them.
It seems harder to find things on family search now than years ago.
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Looking again on Family search I see that there is a Mary Lyne married to Thomas Albone with James as their son, so this might be where I got the James and Elizabeth Devereaux from originally. Again all born Arlesey.
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I cant find a Mary Toaken on the IGI at all.
I wonder if Toaken is a mistranscription, or just wrong in the parish register, as this is the only Toaken in Beds, and there are only three in England on the IGI. Not many more for Token either.
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There's 2 trees on Genes Reunited that have Mary Toaken, one has her born 1770 Arlesey, the other in 1768 no place. No other Toaken names exist in all other GrU trees. One of them tree users has Thomas Albon born 1765 Arlesey & the other Thomas Albon born 1768 Henlow. Both have lots of Albon (born Arlesey) names 1780 +/- 20 years.
There's a few trees having Mary Lynes/Lyne/Lynn/Lynne born Arlesey c1768/1770
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The first GrU user has same name as the person who has logged this info....
http://www.thetreeofus.net/2/50674.htm
.... suggesting Thomas's parents were Samuel & Mary
You may have already found & know of it
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Thanks John; I looked at that tree a few days, and have known of it for several years, and I'm afraid I place little confidence in it. For example she gives Thomas Albone as being baptised in Arlesey, but there's no such entry in Arlesey parish register, and in fact that particular baptism was in Biggleswade where there was a different Albone family.
She's finally taken my name out of her tree and I'm now there as private, but full details of living aunts and uncles are still there. Much of her Cooper information has been obtained from my tree.
David
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Bedfordshire Boy, on the off chance I tapped Mary Toaken in on here and up popped a query from your good self regarding Thomas Aborn and Mary going all the way back to 31st October 2006. Do you think it possible that both names are wrong, or that they could be a different couple?
I have been sitting here practising my best Bedfordshire accent and trying to remember how granddad spoke and how the older people pronounced Albone. It was usually Albon (rhyming with album) or with much older, and local to Clifton, more like Auburn. Also, if they were both born or christened in Arlesey, or Henlow in Thomas case, why would they get married in Shillington but then live in Arlesey? Perhaps they worked in Shillington but if that were so surely at least the man would have continued working after marriage.
The point of my rambling was me trying to imagine how the name might be written as Aborn and how it might have sounded to a non local or someone fom Shillington!
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Whoops, missed this one!
I think Aborn is Albon or Albone, but I'm not so sure about Toaken. The problem is there aren't many other names that I can think of that could be written Toaken. Might be Tolkien! Just kidding. I've been through Shillington transcript and can't see anything that could remotely have been mistranscribed as Toaken.
Must do some more work on the Henlow family.
David
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Morning... the other GrU tree has been revealed to me. They have Thomas Albon baptised 9 Oct 1768 at Henlow being son of James Albon 1742-1776 & Ann Surch 1746-1784 who married at Henlow 8 Jan 1766; they had 5 other children, Elizabeth, William, James, John & John.
James was son of William & Mary Albon who married in 1738 at Henlow.
William 1719-1785 was son of Thomas Albon & Elizabeth Brown who married 1716 at Biggleswade.
I've not verified any of this - just passing on the information
Cheers John
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Morning John, and a Happy New Year to you both.
Thanks for this information. I'll look into it
All the best
David
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Happy New Year and thank you for your continued interest in this. I was looking on the IGI for Shillington Albon(e) marriages and it came up with four in batch no. M00382-1, all between 1798 and 1808.
Ann Albon !st July 1798 to John Corley
Eliza Albon 22nd Nov.1800 to Thos. Lawence
Mary Albone 7th Nov. 1808 to Henry Ferrar
Mary Albone 4th Feb. 1808 to John Crawley.
There were no male marriages, but it does show they were used to the surname. I haven't been able to check for burials as none came up on the search page.
Don't know if this helps the search or not. The only Toaken was the one we know about.
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Further to my last post I have just been on the IGI and nothing is coming up for births, deaths or marriages now. I did the previous search before the holiday and now nothing. Very frustrating
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& a Bonne Année to you David....
I had a chance to go to Beds Archives today to look for marriage witnesses........
Arlesey marriage 2 Apr 1793
Thomas ALBON, bach to Mary Lyne, spinster, both of this parish, both made their mark,
Witnesses : John Robinson & Robert Johnson (the latter is on many others, so assume clerk)
Banns read 22 & 29 July & 5 Aug 1792
Shillington marriage 18 July 1788
Thomas ABORN to Mary Toaken, both of this parish, both made their mark.
Witnesses : Lewis Flint (assume clerk) & Esther? HILYARD - her mark (first name is smudged)
Henlow marriage 8 Jan 1766
James ALBAN, bach to Ann Surch, spinster, both otp & both made mark.
Witnesses : James ABAN & Gilbert Woolor (assume clerk)
Cheers John
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Thanks very much John.
I have to say that this doesn't appear to be an auspicious start to 2017! But perhaps Esther Hilyard might be the key. On the other hand.....
Need to sit down and get a grip on these Albones now that Stéphan is back at school
Thanks again
David
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Good afternoon David and John P.
I have found the second Edward born in 1798 on FreeReg. He has been transcribed as son of Thomas and Ann, not Mary, baptised 1798. So that sorts him out but doesn't help with identifying the other Thomas and Mary or why Thomas and Mary Lyne waited until they had three children before marrying if indeed they do turn out to be my Josephs parents. I've had no joy with Mary Toaken though, or her husband Thomas either.
Hope you are both doing better with your own research and thank you both for all the help you give to people like myself on here.