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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: palmerfamily on Wednesday 14 December 16 14:52 GMT (UK)

Title: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: palmerfamily on Wednesday 14 December 16 14:52 GMT (UK)
Hi I'm just wondering if anyone can help me... I'm trying to trace my great-grandfathers line..
all I know:
              Joseph Harold stokes 1898 - 1983 Bedwellty, Tredegar,Monmouthshire
              wife: Alice Stokes 1906 - 1997
         

 this is about all the facts I know. My grandfather told us he [joseph]  was a travelling showman until he married Alice [she wasn't a traveller]
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: mikechristopher on Wednesday 14 December 16 15:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Welcome to Rootschat!

1901 UK Census
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSM8-N8T
Name:   Joseph H Stokes
Age in 1901:   2
Father:   John Stokes
Mother:   Isabella Stokes
Where born:   Iredyan, Monmouthshire, Wales

You can also find them in the 1911 census.

Civil Marriage Records
Name:   Joseph H Stokes
Date of Registration:   Jan-Feb-Mar 1924
Registration district:   Merthyr Tydfil
Inferred County:   Glamorganshire
Spouse:   Alice Simmonds
Volume Number:   11a
Page Number:   1068

You are not allowed to list names and details of living people on here so would suggest removing the name for the son given above but If you do a search on http://www.freebmd.org.uk/ you will also find that they had a possible 9 children including the one you gave.  You would need to confirm all of them are correct but is likely with it matching father and mothers surname and location.

If you search on there for Types: Births, Surname: Stokes, Spouse/Mother surname: Simmonds and District: Bedwellty and they shall appear :)
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: palmerfamily on Wednesday 14 December 16 15:37 GMT (UK)
thank you..  :D
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: palmerfamily on Wednesday 14 December 16 16:40 GMT (UK)
I can see on the 1901 census that John's mum [Ellen Stokes] is living with the family.. would you have any suggestions to find John's dad.?
 ::)
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: JJen on Wednesday 14 December 16 16:55 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Possible 1871 -

Winter Stokes   70 Peddler
Ellen Stokes   wife 36
John Stokes   son 14
France Stokes   son 13
Joseph Stokes   son 10
Richard Stokes   son 5
Sophia Lathan   serv 30

RG10 Piece 5336 Folio 72 Page 15, Monmouthshire

In the Where Born column the numerator has recorded 'Could not find out'
Occupation - A gipsy party sleeping in three tents only one stupid girl there.

JJ
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: palmerfamily on Wednesday 14 December 16 17:00 GMT (UK)
thank you  ;D
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: palmerfamily on Wednesday 14 December 16 17:08 GMT (UK)
John Stokes was born in 1871 Bedwellty, Monmouthshire
mother Ellen Stokes born 1834 Setctley, Gloucestershire

 ???
 :)
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: mikechristopher on Wednesday 14 December 16 17:26 GMT (UK)
Whilst the mothers age fits ok there the son does - John.  Its possible that this one is just a coincidence unless they called 2 sons John. 

There is a 1871 birth of John in Bedwelty as per below even though in the 1901 census it states Tydu, Monmouthshire as the birth place. 

Name   John Stokes
Event Type   Birth Registration
Registration Quarter   Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year   1871
Registration District   Bedwellty
County   Monmouthshire
Event Place   Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, England
Volume   11A
Page   109
Line Number   250

STOKES, JOHN       REEVES     Order
GRO Reference: 1871  S Quarter in BEDWELLTY  Volume 11A  Page 109

Reeves being John Stokes mothers maiden name.
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: JJen on Wednesday 14 December 16 17:50 GMT (UK)
To ensure that you are on the correct line for John's father it would be advisable to purchase John's marriage cert, which hopefully will show his father's details.

Quite often if a child died then his/her name would be used again within the family.

JJ
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: JJen on Wednesday 14 December 16 18:11 GMT (UK)
There is a 1871 birth of John in Bedwelty as per below even though in the 1901 census it states Tydu, Monmouthshire as the birth place. 

Name   John Stokes
Event Type   Birth Registration
Registration Quarter   Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year   1871
Registration District   Bedwellty
County   Monmouthshire
Event Place   Bedwellty, Monmouthshire, England
Volume   11A
Page   109
Line Number   250

STOKES, JOHN       REEVES     Order
GRO Reference: 1871  S Quarter in BEDWELLTY  Volume 11A  Page 109

Reeves being John Stokes mothers maiden name.


1881 for the above John -

James Stokes   Head   36 Coal Miner   Bristol, Gloucestershire, England   
Letitia Stokes   Wife   35 Holyhead, Anglesey   
John   Stokes   Son 10 Tredegar, Monmouthshire   
Elizabeth Stokes   Dau 8 Tredegar, Monmouthshire   
Samuel Stokes   Son 6 Tredegar, Monmouthshire   
Mary   Stokes   Dau 2 Tredegar, Monmouthshire,
George Stokes   Son 0 Tredegar, Monmouthshire   
Isaac   Reeves   Uncle 56 Coal Miner   Argoed, Monmouthshire   
RG11Piece  5242 Folio   76 Page   28

James Stokes married q2 1871, Bedwelty on the same page is Letitia Reeves.

JJ
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: JJen on Wednesday 14 December 16 19:06 GMT (UK)
Looking at various records it would appear that John changes his birth year on numerous occasions -
1856, 1871 and 1862.

There is a birth of a John Stokes q1 1862, Newport Vol 11a Page 179 mother's maiden name - Kinch

There are also these births with MMN Kinch
Richard Stokes q1 1860, Newport Vol 11a Page 201
Fiance Stokes q1 1868, Newport Vol Page 11a Page 212

The names John, Richard, Fiance/France tie in with the 1871 previously posted, however the ages again are wrong.

JJ

Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: JJen on Wednesday 14 December 16 19:48 GMT (UK)
This marriage is worth looking at -

Helen Kinch
3 Mar 1856, St John, Cinderford, Forest of Dean, Glos.
Age - 25
Spouse - Winter Flood Pateman, Basket Maker
Age  - 20
Father - Richard Kinch, Hawker
No father recorded for Winter Flood Pateman
Wits - Sophia and Charles Barnard

JJ

Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: palmerfamily on Wednesday 14 December 16 19:50 GMT (UK)
thank you mike Reeves does sound about right .. :)

and JJ your right the names are repetitive.. certificates are on order I'm just so inpatient thank you  :)
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: JJen on Wednesday 14 December 16 20:00 GMT (UK)
Would be interested to know the outcome from the certificates please. It's rather an interesting family you have to research.

JJ
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: palmerfamily on Wednesday 14 December 16 20:12 GMT (UK)
I will keep you updated I'm total torn because Kinch is also sounding familiar... though I'm guessing they married with in the same families...

I know John Stokes was born around 1871
                                    died around 1902
                                    married Isabella Cummings around 1891
                         children: Maud, Albert, George, Joseph H, Agnes
Ellen Stokes listed as his mother on the 1901 census., but I'm thinking this may well of been another family member..

If granddads tales are true my ancestor's are some colourful people  :D

Thank you for you assistance

Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: palmerfamily on Wednesday 14 December 16 20:15 GMT (UK)
We also have connections to Kent
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: JJen on Wednesday 14 December 16 20:22 GMT (UK)
I will keep you updated I'm total torn because Kinch is also sounding familiar... though I'm guessing they married with in the same families...

I know John Stokes was born around 1871
                                    died around 1902
                                    married Isabella Cummings around 1891
                         children: Maud, Albert, George, Joseph H, Agnes


Thank you.

Just to confuse you even more  :) I believe that this is John's death record as he is still around in 1911 -

John Stokes
Birth Date - abt 1863
Date of Registration - Mar 1944
Age at Death - 81
Registration district - Bedwellty
Vol 11a Page 99
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: palmerfamily on Wednesday 14 December 16 20:36 GMT (UK)
I will keep you updated I'm total torn because Kinch is also sounding familiar... though I'm guessing they married with in the same families...

I know John Stokes was born around 1871
                                    died around 1902
                                    married Isabella Cummings around 1891
                         children: Maud, Albert, George, Joseph H, Agnes


Thank you.

Just to confuse you even more  :) I believe that this is John's death record as he is still around in 1911 -

John Stokes
Birth Date - abt 1863
Date of Registration - Mar 1944
Age at Death - 81
Registration district - Bedwellty
Vol 11a Page 99


That would make more sense... My Grandad have told me stories for his memories and he wasn't born until 1924... I don't know what happened in 1902  :D
Title: Re: joseph harold stokes bedwellty, monmouthshire
Post by: palmerfamily on Tuesday 10 January 17 13:19 GMT (UK)
so.... Winter Flood IS my 3rd time great grandfather.. and his parents were John and Charlotte Stokes... I can't thank you enough for your assistance  ;D ;D ;D