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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: hurworth on Thursday 15 December 16 00:37 GMT (UK)
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One kit I manage is getting several Scandinavian matches estimated at 4th cousins or greater. One gtgtgt-grandparent was Swiss or perhaps French. The rest are English, Scottish or Irish.
A great-aunt had an unusual middle name, and when asked about it she said her grandmother was Danish and it came from there. I now know that her two grandmothers were Scottish and English and there is nothing in their trees to suggest ancestry outside the British Isles.
It's quite possible this is just a story.
I can only think of one branch that have could have Scandinavian links, or maybe links to Orkney. The parents of her Scottish gt-grandfather are unknown, but it's possible his father was a sailor because they lived on the coast and several members of the family were sailors.
Are many of you getting FamilyFinder matches that actually reside in places like Norway or Sweden who appear to only have Scandinavian ancestry?
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Are many of you getting FamilyFinder matches that actually reside in places like Norway or Sweden who appear to only have Scandinavian ancestry?
Hello Hurworth,
I'm from East Anglia (Danelaw) and I have a good number of Scandinavian matches on Family Finder, so far I have matched people from Norway, Sweden and even Finland. Family Finder says it is a tool for locating recent genealogical matches but I have noticed it picks up on ancient ancestry. Thus far I have only found a few people on there who have recent genealogical links to myself.
Although it's not supposed to, it is really useful for refining your ancestry further, especially given that 'My Origins' doesn't break it down beyond regions and sometimes the match tells you what town they are from to drill it down further.
I've found it a cool unintended feature :)
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Thanks ke. That's helpful to know.
I have to keep reminding myself that with sailors in the family the matches may not just be connected via where your ancestors were from, but it could also be from where the sailor ancestors and their sailor relatives went (for work) and maybe left a little bit of DNA behind.
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There are no true British people - after the last ice age, when Britain started to be habitable, people from Europe walked into Britain across the land bridge that is now the North Sea. Your more recent links will be British. The movement of sailors and immigrants as you say can bring in links that you can find or perhaps they are secrets that will stay so. The more ancient links found in your DNA will throw up connections from many countries.
I am reading The British Genetic Journey by Alistair Moffatt. You can get similar books from your local library to read about the migration from Europe to Britain to establish a British population.
:)
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There are no true British people - after the last ice age, when Britain started to be habitable, people from Europe walked into Britain across the land bridge that is now the North Sea.
Depends on your idea of indigenous really, if you're going to go down that road we are all African and Genealogy is pointless.
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I am reading The British Genetic Journey by Alistair Moffatt. You can get similar books from your local library to read about the migration from Europe to Britain to establish a British population.
I've read Stephen Oppenheimer's book, which is ready for an update, so I understand that the Brits are mongrels.
What I am trying to do is get an idea of is whether it is common to get these Scandinavian matches on FamilyFinder. FF's match criteria are reasonably strict and with some kits known relatives have not matched on FF whereas Gedmatch estimated 5-6 generations. If it is common to get these matches then I'll put it down to shared DNA from many many generations ago or else IBS.
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I haven't got Family Finder matches resident in Scandinavia but I do have Norwegian and Norwegian-American matches on the FTDNA mtDNA Full Sequence test. My haplogroup is J1c2 and that is quite prevalent in Scandinavia and the Baltics.
My DNA is apparently 63% British Isles, 32% Western & Central Europe, and 5% Finland & Northern Siberia. I love that last bit!
Harry
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I got Scandinavian too.
I do have some ancestors from the North Yorkshire Dales, where there was a heavy Viking (chiefly Danish) influence, still seen today in place-names etc.
Also, I have heritage in the Scottish Highlands, where some Norwegian Vikings also settled.
I also have found surnames in my family linage which show Scandinavian influence, such as Tordoff, Ustenson, Brigg and Askwith.
That's about all I can think of as for any Scandinavian heritage.
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You might find this map of the earliest settlers helpful :-
http://www.city-data.com/forum/united-kingdom/2323563-new-dna-map-britain.html
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Thanks Rena. I've seen the map in various forms (mostly the one with various coloured shapes).
So, it appears a few people, but not many, are getting matches with people currently residing in Scandinavia.
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The Angles, Saxons & Jutes weren't that much different from the Danes who later over-ran much of England & the Normans also so you might expect Scandinavian origins to be pretty ubiquitous!
Skoosh.
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Thanks Skoosh. I'd expect most people with British Isles ancestry to have some Scandinavian ancestors from before records began, so my query isn't about whether people are getting Scandinavian as part of their admixture. I expect it is not uncommon in the British Isles.
I'm interested in whether others are getting DNA matches with "cousins" who are Scandinavian and wondering whether this might suggest a more recent connection than Erik in a longship 1000 years ago.
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@ Hurworth, I've had the YDNA done but no sign of Scandahooligans! ;D
Skoosh.
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it could also be from where the sailor ancestors and their sailor relatives went (for work) and maybe left a little bit of DNA behind.
;D ;D And if confronted.....'Did Not Associate' :-\
Annie
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There is an article from the Daily Mail of 27th Dec which gives figures of 1 in every 33 men having the Viking gene in recent BritishDNA Y tests
If you google"The Viking Gene" you can read it - my anti-virus is stopping me pasteing the URL although it allowed me to read it :(
Kim
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Hi,
My mother and I have tested (FTDNA). My mother is 95% European broken down as 63% British, 21% Scandinavian, 9% Western and Central European, and 2% Eastern European. The remainder is related to our German fellow through whose family we have acquired a 5% Ashkenazi Jewish heritage. So, even that small 5% would be placed in Eastern Europe and/or Russia. My biological father being 100% Scottish with his maternal grandmother hailing from the Shetland Islands, all of my 'ethnic' percentages are even higher in British and Scandinavian and the Jewish has reduced to 2%.
My mother's mother was from Kent and her father was from Devon and his family came from Devon, Somerset and Cornwall.
Many of our Kent ancestral names are Scandinavian in origin: Coppen, Dodd, Hall, Harmon, Lent, Nutt, multiple Smith lines on all of my ancestries, and Walker. All of these surnames occur within the first 5 generations! On my father's side the most notable of the Scandinavian names are Duff and Gunn, both occurring within the first 3 generations!
With surnames such as these, yes, I absolutely have quite a proportion of matches in Gedmatch with individuals from Scandinavia. Unfortunately, based on the small number of shared centimorgans with those matches, I suspect that the connection will occur beyond the 8th cousin level. Certainly, none of those matches and I have been able to match on documentary evidence.
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Hi,
Many of our Kent ancestral names are Scandinavian in origin: Coppen, Dodd, Hall, Harmon, Lent, Nutt, multiple Smith lines on all of my ancestries, and Walker. All of these surnames occur within the first 5 generations! On my father's side the most notable of the Scandinavian names are Duff and Gunn, both occurring within the first 3 generations!
Nothing Scandinavian about Duff, it's from the Scottish Gaelic "dubh", meaning 'black'. Related to Irish Duffy. My middle name is Duff - my father and I were both called after a relative by marriage from St. Andrews who was a professional golfer. His Duffs belonged to the fisher community in St. Andrews.
And the MacDuffs were the 'thanes' of Fife. There's still a MacDuff's castle.
Harry
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Nothing Scandinavian about Duff, it's from the Scottish Gaelic "dubh", meaning 'black'. Related to Irish Duffy.
Yes, insofar as the Clan histories are concerned.
However, I would refer you to:
https://ia800203.us.archive.org/4/items/cu31924029805771/cu31924029805771.pdf (https://ia800203.us.archive.org/4/items/cu31924029805771/cu31924029805771.pdf)
Barber, Henry, M.D. (Clerk). British Family Names: Their Origin and Meaning, with lists of Scandinavian, Frisian, Anglo-Saxon and Norman Names. (London: Elliot Stock, 1894.)
The author has stated his sources, which included "Buchanan's Scottish Surnames".
From the Introduction the author states: "The chief object has been to avoid anything like guess-work or fancy interpretation, and to seek for a definition among such sources as seemed likely to supply it, so that, when a word could not be referred to any reasonable origin, it was put on the shelf until time, experience, and discovery should verify it.
My Duff ancestors were entrenched in Edinburgh back to the early 1600s where they were found as armourers, gunsmiths, and cutlers. So, whether they were descended from or sought shelter under the auspices of the Duff clan I do not know. Nor are there any documentary sources available that could prove this point for me. So, while I find the Clan book writings interesting, I have to question the origin of the surname prior to even the commencement of the history of the clans.
One very rarely is able to determine whether an ancestor bearing a Clan surname was an actual biological descendant of that Clan Chieftain or whether that ancestor had simply sought shelter from the clan and took the chieftain's surname.
Were my Duffs Picts or of Viking descent? No one can answer this. My DNA, however, certainly points to quite an involved descent from Scandinavian individuals and the author above-noted has apparently found sufficient evidence during his research to associate the surname Duff with that of Scandinavian origin. So, for now, I will hang my hat in the Scandinavian origins corner.
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Hi
I have been slowly, looking through my matches on Gedmatch, and there do seem to be a few Swedish and Norweigan names there, so I am wondering if I might have an unaccounted for Scandinavian relative somewhere around fifth, sixth generation. It might explain my really high scandi percentage. Mind you, my 4x grandmother was born in Selkirk, and her surname was Anderson, which might explain some of it.
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Hi
I have been slowly, looking through my matches on Gedmatch, and there do seem to be a few Swedish and Norweigan names there, so I am wondering if I might have an unaccounted for Scandinavian relative somewhere around fifth, sixth generation. It might explain my really high scandi percentage. Mind you, my 4x grandmother was born in Selkirk, and her surname was Anderson, which might explain some of it.
Anderson is not necessarily Scandinavian, though it is very common there.
I would imagine that a high amount of Scandinavian DNA would come from descent from Vikings and Normans.
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My father's Ancestry DNA test said he was 48% Great Britain, 38% Europe West, 9% Finland/Northwest Russia, 3% Scandinavia, & 2% Europe East.
Yet his maternal grandfather was from Denmark, and his material grandmother was from Norway, and paternal great-grandfather was from Baden, Germany, and the rest seems to be from Great Britain. We have matches with Danish & Norwegian relatives (who also immigrated to the USA), so why such a small percent of his DNA is showing up as Scandinavia?
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Hi
I have been slowly, looking through my matches on Gedmatch, and there do seem to be a few Swedish and Norweigan names there, so I am wondering if I might have an unaccounted for Scandinavian relative somewhere around fifth, sixth generation. It might explain my really high scandi percentage. Mind you, my 4x grandmother was born in Selkirk, and her surname was Anderson, which might explain some of it.
Anderson is not necessarily Scandinavian, though it is very common there.
I would imagine that a high amount of Scandinavian DNA would come from descent from Vikings and Normans.
Hi :)
Yes, that is true about the Anderson surname, and I think she was a full bloodied Scot, but i'm struggling to think of where else the high amount could come from. I do have alot of family from Yorkshire, and the Midlands ( Danelaw) and some from Scotland, which could explain the high percentage. One of my distant Ancestors was called Jane Raw, which I believe is a Viking name, and she was from Swaledale in North Yorks and possibly Cumbria further back.
According to FTDNA I am a whopping 45% Scandinavia and the coloured blob was mostly over Norway and Sweden. I was 40% Great Britain, 13% Southern Europe and 2% Central and South Asian. All my family, as far as I am aware of, were born in the British Isles. But I do have many gaps and brick walls to fill. What is odd is that I have no Western or Central Europe.
So, yes, it is hard to tell if the DNA is Ancient or relatively recent. I have not come across any ancestral Scandinavian links so far in my research, but I do have some current Scandinavian matches with people on Gedmatch, who are Swedish, Norwegian and Finnish. Interesting times!.
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Anderson, common all over Scotland, patron saint Andrew. The Scandinavian input into Scotland's genepool was generally pre Christian & names like Andrew were not used. The Northern isles were an exception & James Anderson would be the son of Andrew Jameson for example. a practise which ended a couple of hundred years ago when surnames became fixed.
Skoosh.
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I think I brought up Scandinavian-sounding names earlier.
Some branches of my family tree in North & East Yorkshire also seem to bear Scandinavian-sounding names.
Among these are Brigg, Haigh, Askwith, Crowson, Ustenson, Tordoff, etc.
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I think I brought up Scandinavian-sounding names earlier.
Some branches of my family tree in North & East Yorkshire also seem to bear Scandinavian-sounding names.
Among these are Brigg, Haigh, Askwith, Crowson, Ustenson, Tordoff, etc.
Ustenson and Tordoff sound really Scandinavian:)
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Anderson, common all over Scotland, patron saint Andrew. The Scandinavian input into Scotland's genepool was generally pre Christian & names like Andrew were not used. The Northern isles were an exception & James Anderson would be the son of Andrew Jameson for example. a practise which ended a couple of hundred years ago when surnames became fixed.
Skoosh.
I didn't know that, you learn something new every day.
In my case, more than one.
Thank you for that :)
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Alf, Uisdean is the Gaelic for Hugh so probably Norse!
Skoosh.
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Hello all:)
Well, it's all change at FTDNA. I logged in today and they have updated their myorigin pages.
After all the Scandinavia talk, it appears that I have lost most of my Scandihooligans!! ( as Skoosh calls them ;D )
I've gone from 45% Scandinavian down to 17% and 46% is now Western and Central Europe.
Great Britain is now lower too at 34% and I've gone from 98% to 97% European with 2% traces each of Central Asia, South America? and Eastern Europe.
The descriptions of each region has changed too. I'm am basically reading it as, if we are European, we will be a differing mixture of all of these. Mongrels basically. I am fine with that, although I expect there will be more shifts over time.
It's good that they are getting more data though.
I shall mourn my lost Scandi's with a smoked salmon sarnie at lunch time.
Have a lovely day
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They've given some of your Scandinavian genes to me, for I now have 33% Scandinavian, whereas before I just had 5% Finland and Northern Siberia. I have 11% Iberia, and most interesting of all, 3% Sephardic Jewish. Not bad for a boy from an east-coast Scottish fishing village. I would like to see how they work out these results.
Harry
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They've given some of your Scandinavian genes to me, for I now have 33% Scandinavian, whereas before I just had 5% Finland and Northern Siberia. I have 11% Iberia, and most interesting of all, 3% Sephardic Jewish. Not bad for a boy from an east-coast Scottish fishing village. I would like to see how they work out these results.
Harry
Not bad at all ;D
With your post, you have just reminded me that I have also lost my 13% Southern Europe. How sad. Paella for dinner then.
My Gedmatch still shows Basque and Iberian, so maybe it has something to do with the people we match with on FTDNA?.
It's a mystery.
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There's a big debate about all this on the FTDNA discussion forum. Lots of puzzlement about.
Harry
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There are no true British people - after the last ice age, when Britain started to be habitable, people from Europe walked into Britain across the land bridge that is now the North Sea...
Not necessarily true
People might have migrated from Britain before the ice age and then those same 'people', thousands of years later, moved back into Britain again as the ice receded.
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Before the sea rose there was no Britain it was part of the continent, who first boiled a kettle here or there is pure speculation.
Skoosh.
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Before the sea rose there was no Britain it was part of the continent, who first boiled a kettle here or there is pure speculation.
Skoosh.
You have a wonderful turn of phrase :)
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They've given some of your Scandinavian genes to me, for I now have 33% Scandinavian, whereas before I just had 5% Finland and Northern Siberia. I have 11% Iberia, and most interesting of all, 3% Sephardic Jewish. Not bad for a boy from an east-coast Scottish fishing village. I would like to see how they work out these results.
Harry
It does make you wonder, the Jewish percentages in a lot of British people's results got me a bit perplexed too but then I did some research and noticed that some Jewish groups overlap clusters with Italians and Greeks. I think this is down to an East Mediterranean element, so I'm my opinion they are misinterpreting South European as Jewish.
I'd say your other elements make sense, East Scotland was raided and settled by Vikings.
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Mazeltov! ;D
Skoosh.
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My other half is the only one of us with 100% European. I expected that he would have a small percentage of Jewish as he is descended from 'GOLDSTON(E)s. But not a trace of any.