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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: sheikhalbadou on Monday 25 July 05 19:49 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am trying to find out some more about Sarah Brooke Done. In 1851 she should be living in Malpas possibly at Edge House, Bickley Hall or Hampton House. I don't know much else about her except that her will was written in 1854 by which time she was a widow and she died in 1855. She was apparently a very wealthy woman with quite a large estate.
My interest in her is because she leaves the bulk of her estate to Ralph Stevenson my 4xGreat Grandfather (there was nothing left by the time it got to me!). She describes Ralph as "my relative" and amongst other things leaves him the picture of his great grandfather Mr Randle Brooke. Lots of Ralph's descendants have Brooke as a middle name.
All very tantalising I think you'll agree! I'm hoping something on the 1851 census will give me a clue as to where to go next.
Thanks
Sue :)
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Hi Sue
Here she is in 1851
HO107-2170-F526 Bickley Hall Bickley Parish of Malpas
John Done head unwed 34 farmer 200 acres born Bickley
Sarah Done mother wid 60 farmers widow born Baddington
servants
Elizabeth Wright 25 house serv
Hannah Levely 21
Ann Painter 27 dairy maid
William Griffin 27 ag lab
Samuel Sheen 16 ~
Joseph ? 14 ~
1841 HO107-89-16-Page4 Bickley
? John ? Done 50/55 farmer all born in county
Sarah 55/60
John 20/25
Male ? Done 5
plus 7 servants all the names are unreadable
In one of the Cheshire marriage indexes there is a marriage at St Oswalds Malpas 18/3/1819 between Sarah Brooke and a John Dove, could this be John Done mispelt ? as I cannot find a death for any John or Sarah Dove it looks a possibility.
There is also a death for a John Done 1845 in Tattenhall reg. district (which would be right for the Malpas area) http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/
hope this helps
peterbennett
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Thank you very much Peter
The marriage you mention sounds like a distinct possibility. I wasn't sure if Sarah was Sarah Brooke Something prior to her marriage or just Sarah Brooke - I will now work on the premise that it is the latter.
The death for John Done in 1845 is also spot on -since I posted my request I have got hold of John Done's Will. What I wasn't expecting was the presence of a son - as far as I can tell neither of the Wills mention him - they are fairly illegible however so I will have another look.
Now I just need to work out how Ralph Stevenson fits into the scheme of things - I'm guessing his mother was a Brooke but I haven't been able to find anything as yet. He was born circa 1789 in Bunbury - I don't suppose you have any ideas??
Thanks again for all your time and effort
Sue :D
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Hi Sue
I think before you go down the road of Sarah being a Brooke I would firstly make sure that the husband in the 1841 above is a John or a James, you could do this by asking the Cheshire RO by email at this link, using the address and ref.numbers I have given you, I do know that their copy of the 41 will be much clearer than mine.
http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/aboutus/recoffcontact.htm
The main reason I say make sure is that someone else has been doing some work on the same family and come to the conclusion that at Bickley Hall the following children were born to a James Done and Sarah Sutton, John 1816, James 1817 and Robert 1821. These records can be found online in the IGI at this link
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
I am always suspicious of records submitted to the IGI, but you cannot ignore them.
My index of Cheshire marriages does not show a James Done/Sarah Sutton marriage but it does show a James Done and Sarah Dutton at Malpas in 1810.
As I said the first thing to do is to verify whether it is James or John at Bickley Hall.
There is a will of James died 1851 which may be enlightening.
Do you know the parents of your Ralf Stevenson ?
peterbennett
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Hi Peter
Its all very complicated but I think the following is probably correct:
I know that Sarah Brooke Done was married to John Done because I have both their wills.
James Done (married to Sarah Sutton) is John's brother (also mentioned in both wills)
It would make more sense if the Dones you found in Bickley Hall were James and Sarah as I know they did have a son John and he is still living in Bickley Hall in 1861. As I said I don't think John and Sarah B D had children as everything is left to nieces and nephews.
In 1851 Sarah Brooke Done could be living in Edge House, Edge, Malpas as this is where she writes her Will in 1854 - I don't know whether you have access to the Edge area for 1851 or 41 (I know you have told me in the past that parts of Malpas are missing from the 41).
I have no idea of Ralph's parents all I know is his Great Grandfather is Randle Brooke and that he is somehow related to Sarah Brooke Done (again based on Sarah's will - unfortunately she isn't specific as to how they are related)
I don't know if you have any ideas as to how I should proceed?? :-\
Thank you!
Sue
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Hi Sue
Here are the 41/51 census details for John and Sarah Done who were living in Broxton. It certainly ties in with the wills, except for the Edge connection, were there any witness names on the will of Sarah Brooke Done ?
1841 HO107-89-17-Page 7 Broxton Cheshire
John Done 55 Independent all born in county
Sarah 55
Mary Davies 25 serv
John Forster 25 serv
Margaret Foulkes 20 serv
1851 HO107-2171-Folio 14 Barnhill Broxton
Sarah Done head widow 67 Annuitant/Land Proprietor Broxton
John Saville serv marr 61 coachman Malpas
Mary Rodgers serv unwed 26 house serv
Mary Harrison serv ~ 29 ~ Whitchurch
I would think you need to trace the ancestors of Ralf Stevenson in order to make a connection with the Brooke's, which is not easy unless you have the parish records or camp out at Chester RO for a day or two.
If you can give me details of Ralf's marriage (to who where and when) and his childrens names etc I will see what can be found, before having to contact the RO.
peterbennett
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Hello Peter
I am sure you have found the right Sarah Done - I took another look at her will and a previously indecipherable word is now clearly Broxton. I think she must have had land and property all over the place - she left money to the poor of several parishes and the use of her pew at Harthill Parish Church to one lucky relative.
Unfortunately I have few hard facts about Ralph Stevenson. He was married to Ann ? born c1788 Marchweil, Denbighshire. I don't know when or where they married. Their children were Mary Stevenson c1817 Malpas, Ambrose Stevenson c1819 Marchweil, Denbighshire, Thomas Stevenson c1820 Malpas, James Stevenson c1822 Malpas, Eliza Stevenson c1825 Malpas, Ann Stevenson c1827 Malpas and Harriet Stevenson c1829 Malpas.
Like you say I think I'll have to pay a visit to the Records office - that will have to wait til the children go back to school in September!
Sue :)
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Hello Peter
I tried to send this message yesterday when the site wasn't working properly - it seems to have disappeared! Apologies if you've already had it.
Just to give you a little more information on the Brooke-Stevenson connection. I have got hold of a Randle Brooke's will. In it he refers to his sister Susannah Stevenson and his nephews and nieces Ambrose, John, Elizabeth, Mary and Susannah Stevenson. It was written in 1784 (5 years before Ralph Stevenson was born). In it he also mentions his (Randle's) grandfather's picture which he leaves to his nephew Ambrose Brooke - I'm thinking this could be the same picture mentioned in Sarah Brooke Done's will - Sarah is perhaps Ambrose's daughter?
Ralph could either be a younger brother to the Stevensons mentioned in the will or possibly the son of one of the brothers - however the way the will is phrased suggests that John Stevenson required caring for and was perhaps handicapped in some way.
I don't know whether any of this would make it easier to find Ralph's birth.
Thanks
Sue :)
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Hi Sue
I only have access to some marriage indexes and no births eccept for the IGI which I would use for guidance only.
However I cannot find a marriage of a Susanah/Susan Brook to a Stevenson, the marriages I did find that may be of interest are
1788 Bunbury Ambrose Stevenson and Ann Palin
1807 Chester Susanah Stevenson/Samuel Wilbraham
1817 Warmingham Ralph Stevenson/Ann Smallwood
I am afraid you will need the records office for the births, but it does look as if Ralph could be the son of Ambrose and Ann Palin
peterbennett
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Thanks Peter
I think I've got as far as I can get sat at my computer! Can't wait to get to the records office now!
Thanks again
Sue :)
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Hi Sue
It would appear that we have common Stevenson relatives.
I have read this thread with interest and wonder who was Sarah Done nee Brooke. Did you ever establish who her parents were?
cheers
Anje
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Sue,
Did you ever get anywhere with this.
I know from previous exchanges that we have had, we appear to have common ancestors on the Brooke side.
Have a look at the pdf which I have uploaded here
www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~rnewfie/Family_History/Thomas%20BROOKE.pdf
Note that around the 18th century, the Brooke family started using the name Brookes, eg. Ambrose 'Brooke' (Randle's son) was godson to Ambrose 'Brookes'.
I am not sure who your grand-father/mother was, so I have included him/her as an un-named Stevenson, but he/she is probably one of the 7 siblings born to your 'Ralph'.
Please correct whatever is wrong and let me know.
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Hello to all who have contributed,
I am also a Brooke descendant, my 5x Gt Grandmother was Sarah Brookes of Bickley.
I found a baptism for Ralph Stevenson on the Cheshire Parish Register Database. This reads as follows:
St Boniface, Bunbury, baptised 04/06/1790, Ralph, son of Ambrose Stevenson. Residence: Tilston.
I hope I have put the dates right as this site is not an easy one to use. The year is correct.
The link is here http://cgi.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/
That puts the marriage of Ambrose Stevenson to Ann Palin in Bunbury in 1788 as the correct one.
Jo.
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Hello again,
Ralph Stevenson married Ann Davies in Marchwiel, Denbighshire on 13 October 1813. Both shown as of Marchwiel parish.
The details are available on FindMyPast.
Jo.
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I found the Will of Sarah Brooke Done and saw that she made bequests to some people by the name of Brookes. It mentions: William .... Brookes, John Henry Brookes, George Brookes and Thomas Brookes, who were said to have been, "sons of the late William .... Brookes of Whitchurch, Shropshire, Gentleman".
Have you ever tried to identify the link between Sarah and this line of Brookes? Do you hold any further information on them?
Jo.
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I have never found a definite link between Sarah Brooke Done and the Malpas Brookes.
The added complication was that around the 18th century, some of the Brooke family started changing their name to Brookes, there were even cases where they were born Brooke and died Brookes.
The Brookes you mentioned were descendants of William Wycherley Brookes.
William Lee Brookes, mentioned in Sarah's will, was my GG Grand-father.
Here is how he fits into my family :-
www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~rnewfie/Family_History/William%20Wycherley%20BROOKES.pdf
Here is the un-confirmed information relating to the Dones :-
www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~rnewfie/Family_History/Thomas%20BROOKE.pdf
The Brooke family were originally from Whitchurch then spread out to Dodington, Malpas, Broughall, Tushingham and Steeple Aston.
Let me know if you find any common ground or any information on the PDFs which needs updating.
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I don't know if anyone is still following this thread but I thought I would bring it up to date with what I know...
Sarah Brooke Done before her marriage to John Done was Sarah Brooke Peers (1784 Malpas), daughter of Joseph Peers and Martha Brooke.
Martha Brooke (1743 Harthill) was the daughter of Ambrose Brooke and Eleanor Ollerhead. Ambrose Brooke was the brother of Susannah Brooke (who married Ralph Stevenson in 1734 St Michael, Chester). Their son Ambrose Stevenson was Martha Brooke's cousin. Ambrose Stevenson was Ralph's father and so that is the connection with Sarah Brooke Done.
Sarah refers to the portrait of Ralph's Great Grandfather, Randle Brooke. This is what has thrown me for some time as Ralph's great grandfather was George Brooke (Susannah's father). However, George died when his children were young, leaving them in the guardianship of his brothers Ambrose and Randle. I think this is where the confusion probably lies.
The portrait - which has survived! (I managed to track down to some distant relatives in the Malpas area) - is of an elderly man and so it cannot be of George who died relatively young.
That is the theory so far.... but if anyone has any more information I would love to hear it!
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"Sarah refers to the portrait of Ralph's Great Grandfather, Randle Brooke. This is what has thrown me for some time as Ralph's great grandfather was George Brooke (Susannah's father). However, George died when his children were young, leaving them in the guardianship of his brothers Ambrose and Randle. I think this is where the confusion probably lies. The portrait - which has survived! (I managed to track down to some distant relatives in the Malpas area) - is of an elderly man and so it cannot be of George who died relatively young."
I found a link between the Brooke and Brookes families and the Malpas branch.
It was hidden because of the change in name from Brooke to Brookes, but not necessarily adopted by all branches.
Ralph Stevenson's Great Grandfather was indeed, George Brooke.
George died when his children were between 10 and 18.
George wasn't particularly young when he died (for those days), he was around 48, but he did have his children fairly late in life. He didn't marry until he was 28.
People in those days seemed to look older than their years. Maybe he was in his late 40s when the picture was painted.
Can you check when the painting was painted? Sometimes they are dated on the back along with an artist's name?
If it really is of an old man, then it could be either George's brother Ambrose (b:1671) or Randle (b:1676) who were 8 and 3 years older than George respectively.
It all depends on the date of the painting.
Have a look at the PDF here to see if it throws any light on it. I would appreciate any updates on its correctness.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~rnewfie/Family_History/Sarah%20Brookes%20Done.pdf
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I have attached a photo of the portrait. You can see that it has been cut down at some point from a larger oval picture. The number is the bottom corner looks like 90 to me - I am beginning to wonder if this is a lot older than originally thought - could it be 1690? I think what he is wearing is quite puritan in style (I am no expert mind you!) which might fit.
There is definitely some confusion as to actually how he is related to Ralph Stevenson. Sarah Brooke Done describes him as his Great Grandfather (which would be George Brooke). But in Randle Brooke's will of 1780 he describes him as his own Grandfather (which would be George Brooke's father). Randle was George's son and brother to Susannah Stevenson.
I have George Brooke's father as Thomas Brooke - which is where I differ from your tree