RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: escollay on Tuesday 20 December 16 11:33 GMT (UK)
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Hi all
I am searching for some of my ancestors who at one stage lived and apparently operated an Ice Cream Shop in Greenock.
Dominick Bonino was an Italian who lived in Glasgow & Greenock, I have him listed on the 1881 census as living in Market Street & 1885 Valuation Rolls living in Cathcart Street. On his wife's application for relief he is listed as having one in Cartsdyke Street (not sure if this exists) - see attached image.
I've always struggled finding information of them, as the surname changes alot (Bannon, Bonina, Bonnino, Bonham, Bonnayn) and they seem to move around alot. Any information would be great!
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Cartsdyke exists (or existed), though I can't find a street by that name:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=17&lat=55.9414&lon=-4.7378&layers=168&right=BingHyb
Is there anything specific you are looking for? You have the 1881 census - do you have them on any other censuses? Did they marry in Scotland?
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Just information on where they lived etc, or any details about them? Or any records of the shop
They married in Dublin, but I think she had left them by them.
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Hi escollay,
Out of interest, what was Dominick's actual occupation titled as on 1881 please?
Do you have the family on any other census'?
Can you please provide as much info. as possible?
When born/married/wife's name/children's names/births & where etc. to help locate them?
Annie
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Just information on where they lived etc, or any details about them? Or any records of the shop
They married in Dublin, but I think she had left them by them.
Who had left who?
What year did they marry?
When did they come to Scotland (ie what is your first record of them in Scotland)?
If they died in Scotland their death certificates should name both parents if known by the informant. That would take you back a generation .... :-\
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Specifically, if you can tell us things like years of birth, places of birth, names of children and their dates and places of birth, then it might give us something more to search for.
As you say the surname varies, so knowing other details about them might help locate them.
In fact, you have forgotten to tell us the wife's name ....
Added: I can't find a Dom* Bon* b Italy on the 1881 Scottish census ...
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Ok, this adds a bit more background:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=738648.0
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Thanks Ruskie.....an array of forenames & surnames ::)
2 Addresses for 1885
BONINO DOMINICK
Tenant Occupier
SHOP AND HOUSE NO 10 CATHCART STREET
GREENOCK MIDDLE
1885
VR003600041-
BONINO DOMIMICK
Tenant Occupier
SHOP AND HOUSE NO 27 MARKET STREET
GREENOCK MIDDLE
1885
VR003600041-
Port Glasgow comes under Renfrew
Annie
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A possibility?
BONINI DOMINIES
1901
34
602/1 5/ 16
Largs
Ayr
Annie
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=738648.0
Quote from above link:
"The last record I can find of him is signing his father's death certificate in 1903 in Glasgow. I can find no record of him after this. I believe he stayed in Scotland and ran his father's ice cream shop. Port Glasgow is also mentioned on one of the children's birth certificates. Dominick, his father, was born in Italy"
Where in Glasgow (area) did father die & what age was he?
Could help to trace them on other census' as we don't know what name your man was using :-\
Can you be more specific about the mention of Port Glasgow on birth cert. please?
Annie
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A possibility?
BONINI DOMINIES
1901
34
602/1 5/ 16
Largs
Ayr
Annie
That looks like him. Ancestry have his first name as Dominico. He is 34 and and Ice Cream Shop Keeper, born "Cakemore", Italy. Address is Hillview. Also with him is a Peter Bonini age 38, and Ice Cream Mercht also born in Cakemore.
There are four other ice cream people with Italian sounding names at the same address (all except one born in "Cakemore").
I would be looking for the death certificates of these two men hoping they died in Scotland*. ;)
* I overlooked the mention of the d/c on the other thread. I wonder if parent's names are given? If not I would try Peter's d/c as the two may be brothers (or cousins?) ....
(now I suppose there is the question of whereabouts in Italy "Cakemore" is ::) )
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Ruskie,
A few good leads to be had there.
OP's man signed his fathers death so hopefully he knew the parents details & equally this could be a match for Peter?
Now to find some other shops & of course 'Cakemore' :D
Annie
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Nearest I can find is 'Cagno' but depending on how that was/is pronounced may have sounded like 'Cakemore'?
Annie
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I got Casamora for Cakemore .... ::) I think this is just going to be a guessing game unless we find another mention of the place.
Naturalisation records perhaps? :-\
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Do you have access to Scottish newspapers Annie? Just wondering if there may be mention of their business.
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Ruskie,
I don't have access to papers etc. only 'Fancestry', sorry.
BONINI PETER
Tenant
HOUSE AND SHOP 44 BOYD STREET EAST SIDE
LARGS (AYR)
1895
VR009000112-
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The OP said she had Dom* in 1881 in Greenock but I couldn't spot him. I'm interested in his (and Peter's) pob.
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Ruskie,
I only checked 1901.
Out of interest, what was Dominick's actual occupation titled as on 1881 please?
escollay...can you tell us what name you found Dominick under on 1881 please?
A possible (surname variant)?
BONINA PETER
Tenant Occupier
SHOP NO 3 MILLER STREET
CUMBRAE
1895
VR009300010-
Cumbrae comes under Ayr
Annie
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I'm trying Peter Bon* and Dom* Bon* with and without birthplace of "Italy" ... nothing in 1881 and 1891.
Maybe they weren't in Scotland until later? (I did ask the OP when Dominick arrived in Scotland and am still awaiting a reply). Odd that she said she had Dom* in 1881 .... :-\
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Just found him in 1891 - Dominic Bonine birth place "Haly". ::)
Address 55 High, Glasgow (St Paul), Ice Cream Shop Keeper. He is a lodger with dozens of others (a mixture, but lots of Italian names). Age is 65! So that's wrong.
It would be worth using some SP credits and looking at the original I think.
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Ruskie, that will be the father I think?
Think this is the father too!
1881
Dominique Bonino
Age 52
Itally
Registration Number 564/1
Civil parish Greenock Middle
Renfrewshire
27 Market Street
Shop Keeper
ED 10
Household schedule number 50
Line 16
Roll cssct1881_164
Son John with him.
Annie
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Yes, I think so. Isn't that who the OP is looking for in this thread, or am I getting mixed up already?
Plain Dominick born in Italy. Possible brother Peter also b Italy.
John Dominck born Dublin? :-\
I haven't done my sums though so dates and ages may be muddled ... too late for me now. I'm signing off in a minute. ;)
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;D I'm mixed up too!
Thought Dominick born 6th July 1864, Dublin, Ireland was who OP was searching for?
Was OP not looking for a death for him, last seen signing his father's death 1903
Annie
Added...And of course any info. on the Shops
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John Dominck born Dublin? :-\
Yes, that's him, forgot he was using both John & Dominick, Duh ::)
Annie
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Not hard to get mixed up when info. differs ::)
Can you tell us exactly who you are looking for please?
Are you looking for John Dominick or his father Dominick?
I am searching for some of my ancestors who at one stage lived and apparently operated an Ice Cream Shop in Greenock.
Dominick Bonino was an Italian who lived in Glasgow & Greenock, I have him listed on the 1881 census as living in Market Street & 1885 Valuation Rolls living in Cathcart Street.
the surname changes alot (Bannon, Bonina, Bonnino, Bonham, Bonnayn) and they seem to move around alot.
QUOTE from: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=738648.0
"Name: John Dominick Bannon;
Also know as - John Bonino, J. Dominick Bonnon, John Bonnon, John Bannon, John Bonney,
Born: 6th July 1864, Dublin, Ireland
Father: Dominick Bonino
Mother: Ann Jane Regan"
Annie
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Ruskie,
I only checked 1901.
Out of interest, what was Dominick's actual occupation titled as on 1881 please?
escollay...can you tell us what name you found Dominick under on 1881 please?
A possible (surname variant)?
BONINA PETER
Tenant Occupier
SHOP NO 3 MILLER STREET
CUMBRAE
1895
VR009300010-
Cumbrae comes under Ayr
Annie
I have seen the Ayr Bonino's before but I am unsure on a connection until I get something more concrete.
On the 1881 he is listed as Dominique Bonino, living in Greenock Middle
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I am searching for information about Dominicks time there. His son John Dominick also loved with him at this time.
The other linked posts is myself looking information previously. My overall goal is to find where he came from in Italy and this is one of the avenues.
Thanks
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1881 census
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My overall goal is to find where he came from in Italy and this is one of the avenues.
The 1901 gives a place name of 'Cakemore' but you need to see the original for what it really says.
This is the only census which seems to give an actual place name in Italy i.e. worth a few credits as he's not going to be on the 1911 having died in 1903.
1871
Dominick Bonnina
41
Born Italy
Registration Number 644/1
Registration district Central District
Glasgow St Paul
County Lanarkshire
7 Bell St
Occupation Artifical House Worker
ED: 28
Household schedule number 76
LINE 1
Roll CSSCT1871_123
Household
Dominick Bonnina 41
Ann Bonnina 33 (Spouse)
Lawrence Bonnina 13 (Son)
John Bonnina 7 (Son)
1881
Dominique Bonino
52
Born Italy
Registration Number 564/1
Registration district Greenock Middle
Renfrewshire
27 Market Street
Shop Keeper
ED 10
Schedule number 50
LINE 16
Roll cssct1881_164
Household
Dominique Bonino 52
John Bonino 17 (Son)
Steven Rogan 12 (Nephew)
Could this be him?
Domenico Bonino
Port of Arrival Dover, England
Arrival Date: 12 Jul 1842
Country of Origin/Native of Italy
Arrived from France
Could this be him?
Marriage (Catholic Parish Registers)
Dominico Bonnini
2 May 1853
St Michael and John's, Dublin City, Dublin, Ireland
Parish Variants: Lower Exchange St., St Michael's and John's, Lr. Exchange St.
Diocese Dublin
Spouse Anne Jane Regull (sic)
Witnesses Wm? John Regull & Luisa Lester
Possible birth of a son (Catholic Parish Registers)
Donniclus Bonini
Parish Variants Francis St., St. Nicholas (without), Francis Street
Diocese Dublin
Spouse Anna Reekwill (sic)
Child Laureutius Josephus Bonini
So, looks like he left Italy, left via France, arrived Dover then headed to Ireland (where he married & had children) before coming to Scotland with wife who went back to Ireland alone?
Annie
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Have you found his wife in Ireland 1901 & 1911?
This could be her?
1901
Ann Jane Boneni
Age: 66
Boarder
Born Ireland
Registration Number: 644/11
Registration district Hutchesontown
Glasgow Hutchesontown
County Lanarkshire
26 Rose St
Occupation Hawker
ED: 3
Household schedule number: 85
LINE: 5
Roll: CSSCT1901_307
Annie
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Just logged back in and see that you've made excellent progress Annie! Great work! :)
I notice that the OP has not answered a couple of our simple questions - eg, on Dominick's death certificate are his parent's names given, and what are they?
Have you cross checked to see if these names match with parents on the death certificate of possible brother Peter?
Annie, can you see Peter coming to the UK too?
Added: though there are obvious errors the surname of wife Ann is Regan is is not?
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Re "Cakemore" ::) ....
On the 1901 census as well as Dominick and Peter, there are others who say they are born in Cakemore, Italy. It may be that they were all just said to have been born in Cakemore for ease of filling out the form, or perhaps because the families knew each other back in Italy as they were all from the same place, they were given ice cream jobs in Scotland ... but might it be worth trying to find these people in other censuses to check their places of birth, in case Cakemore is a place name that makes sense?
Of course, download the original from SP first, and post a snip of it here, so we can give our opinions. :)
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Ruskie,
I hadn't had time to look for Peter arriving but will do so now.
Still wondering where in Glasgow the death 1903 of Dominick was (an address & reg. dist.), his age & occupation as well as whether parents were named?
Annie
Added....Dominick & Peter are shown as brothers 1901
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Only his father is listed on the death certificate in Baird Street, Glasgow. Father was Laurence.
I haven't looked for a father of Peter as the dates where a bit far out
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My overall goal is to find where he came from in Italy and this is one of the avenues.
The 1901 gives a place name of 'Cakemore' but you need to see the original for what it really says.
This is the only census which seems to give an actual place name in Italy i.e. worth a few credits as he's not going to be on the 1911 having died in 1903.
1871
Dominick Bonnina
41
Born Italy
Registration Number 644/1
Registration district Central District
Glasgow St Paul
County Lanarkshire
7 Bell St
Occupation Artifical House Worker
ED: 28
Household schedule number 76
LINE 1
Roll CSSCT1871_123
Household
Dominick Bonnina 41
Ann Bonnina 33 (Spouse)
Lawrence Bonnina 13 (Son)
John Bonnina 7 (Son)
1881
Dominique Bonino
52
Born Italy
Registration Number 564/1
Registration district Greenock Middle
Renfrewshire
27 Market Street
Shop Keeper
ED 10
Schedule number 50
LINE 16
Roll cssct1881_164
Household
Dominique Bonino 52
John Bonino 17 (Son)
Steven Rogan 12 (Nephew)
Could this be him?
Domenico Bonino
Port of Arrival Dover, England
Arrival Date: 12 Jul 1842
Country of Origin/Native of Italy
Arrived from France
Could this be him?
Marriage (Catholic Parish Registers)
Dominico Bonnini
2 May 1853
St Michael and John's, Dublin City, Dublin, Ireland
Parish Variants: Lower Exchange St., St Michael's and John's, Lr. Exchange St.
Diocese Dublin
Spouse Anne Jane Regull (sic)
Witnesses Wm? John Regull & Luisa Lester
Possible birth of a son (Catholic Parish Registers)
Donniclus Bonini
Parish Variants Francis St., St. Nicholas (without), Francis Street
Diocese Dublin
Spouse Anna Reekwill (sic)
Child Laureutius Josephus Bonini
So, looks like he left Italy, left via France, arrived Dover then headed to Ireland (where he married & had children) before coming to Scotland with wife who went back to Ireland alone?
Annie
This information is all correct.
Though I am not sure that Ann ever went back to Ireland. She seemed to have a lot of issues and problems. Especially run ins with the law.
On her workhouse relief application, she claims Dominick died in Italy six years previous, whenever he was alive in Glasgow.
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I've been working so only catching up now, sorry for the delay, and big thanks for the work so far!!
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Just realised,
Reply #8
BONINI DOMINIES
1901
34
602/1 5/ 16
Largs
Ayr
I was wondering if this was John Dominick using the name Dominick (having taken over) from his father Dominick re the 'Business' rather than John & Peter is aged 38 (1863) which could fit to the marriage of Dominick & Ann but like Ruskie, I'm having trouble verifying the correct people as Ann seems to have an array of names too.
Anne Jane Regull (marriage) 1853
Anna Reekwill (Son Laurence's birth) 1857
Ann Jane Regan (Son John Dominick's birth) 1864,
Peter b 1863 would fit pre John Dominick's birth in 1864
I wonder if there were more children as there's a fair gap between Laurence & John Dominick?
Have you looked for a son Peter in Irish Catholic Records?
A coincidence regarding the link with Ice-cream with the 1901 although they say born Italy but as Dominick Snr. was born Italy they may have thought they were too?
Annie
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Just realised,
Reply #8
BONINI DOMINIES
1901
34
602/1 5/ 16
Largs
Ayr
I was wondering if this was John Dominick using the name Dominick (having taken over) from his father Dominick re the 'Business' rather than John & Peter is aged 38 (1863) which could fit to the marriage of Dominick & Ann but like Ruskie, I'm having trouble verifying the correct people as Ann seems to have an array of names too.
Anne Jane Regull (marriage) 1853
Anna Reekwill (Son Laurence's birth) 1857
Ann Jane Regan (Son John Dominick's birth) 1864,
Peter b 1863 would fit pre John Dominick's birth in 1864
I wonder if there were more children as there's a fair gap between Laurence & John Dominick?
Have you looked for a son Peter in Irish Catholic Records?
A coincidence regarding the link with Ice-cream with the 1901 although they say born Italy but as Dominick Snr. was born Italy they may have thought they were too?
Annie
This is interesting as I heard a rumour he had went to Manchester using his father's name. He also signed his marriage certificate as J. Dominick Bonnon (the name was later totally anglicized as Bannon)
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With regard to 1881 census,
Dominick is on his own with son John.
Have you found his wife in 1881 & son Laurence?
Annie
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Mmmm,
Maybe not!
1871 has Dominick, Ann with 2 sons Laurence & John so if there were more, where are they?
Annie
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I can find no other links to the family & a Shop on the Valuation Rolls?
I am wondering what the reference regarding 'Port Glasgow' was on the birth cert. you mentioned as this may hold a clue?
Annie
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I have found daughters of Dominick & Ann who died young, but no sons.
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Have you found Ann in 1911 as this would give how many children she had & how many were still living.
Annie
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What year is your last sight of Ann to narrow down a death?
Annie
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Have you found Ann in 1911 as this would give how many children she had & how many were still living.
Annie
Unfortunately not, she seems to have been a vagrant at this time
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What year is your last sight of Ann to narrow down a death?
Annie
I have her death certificate from 1915. She died in the poorhouse
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Such a pity that I have spent a good part of the day looking for info. only to find you already have everything I have found or have been looking for which could have saved me the trouble had you posted all known facts originally.
Good luck in your quest.
Annie
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Escollay,
As this family is a bit complicated, I suggest you set out all that you know in a timeline. This will make it clearer for anyone willing to assist you. If you add things such as aliases, last known sightings, certificates, censuses etc, people will know where the gaps are, and it will save them from duplicating what you already know. Obviously you cannot write every single detail on a thread such as this, but the vital things such as "have in 1881 and 1901 census only" "cannot find in 1891" will save people going over old ground.
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Such a pity that I have spent a good part of the day looking for info. only to find you already have everything I have found or have been looking for which could have saved me the trouble had you posted all known facts originally.
Good luck in your quest.
Annie
I am thankful for your help, although I did say at the start I was looking for information regarding their ice cream shop in Greenock.
I was working for the majority of the day, and only discovered all the research that had been done whenever I finished work.
I had posted earlier in the year on a different thread trying to get information about their whole life time, which was actually linked in this thread by somebody. There has been information posted that is food for thought, so I wouldn't call it "a pity".
I apologize if this wasn't clear enough but I was looking for their time in Greenock.
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Not sure why on Reply 1 you didn't say you had any of them or who on other census'?
Not sure how good a researcher you are but often we have to collate info. from elsewhere to answer a particular question?
In this query, yes you wanted to know about the time in Greenock.
To find this out, I checked all addresses from census' to then look up the Valuation Rolls hence needing to know the census info. before I went to the Valuation Rolls.
I also asked on 2 occasions about the connection to Port Glasgow for the same reason as the date where you found that info. may have helped me to help you but that question has been ignored.
I was also looking for son Laurence on census' to see if he had any connection with the Ice-cream business i.e. an address would have again helped for Valuation Rolls but I now see he died in Ireland which wasn't mentioned.
There are many ways of concluding things with different info. to relate to/expand on but questions unanswered don't help us to help you.
For reference to others who may be searching, some more info.....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=761410.0
Annie
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Yes, you did ask about the ice cream shop, but often, knowing the background story can help.
As well as the icecream shop, you also asked about their place of birth in Italy.
You were advised to download a copy of the original 1901 census from SP because it's not going to be Cakemore as transcribed. Once you do that, post the relevant words here if you would like some opinions on the place name. Do you have any instances of their place of birth in other documents?
At the beginning of the thread I asked about Naturalisation. Have you explored this yet?
I also asked if you had Peter's death certificate, and if it named his parents?
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Not sure why on Reply 1 you didn't say you had any of them or who on other census'?
Not sure how good a researcher you are but often we have to collate info. from elsewhere to answer a particular question?
In this query, yes you wanted to know about the time in Greenock.
To find this out, I checked all addresses from census' to then look up the Valuation Rolls hence needing to know the census info. before I went to the Valuation Rolls.
I also asked on 2 occasions about the connection to Port Glasgow for the same reason as the date where you found that info. may have helped me to help you but that question has been ignored.
I was also looking for son Laurence on census' to see if he had any connection with the Ice-cream business i.e. an address would have again helped for Valuation Rolls but I now see he died in Ireland which wasn't mentioned.
There are many ways of concluding things with different info. to relate to/expand on but questions unanswered don't help us to help you.
For reference to others who may be searching, some more info.....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=761410.0
Annie
Yes Annie, I am aware of that post, as it is my post. This is the second post of mine, which has been linked back to me.
I was not ignoring requests for information, as I mentioned I was working and I was trying to catch up on the requests. There were 3 full pages of records posted before I even had a chance to reply.
Yes I did mention about finding where they were from Italy, but I did say that was my "overall goal" & the point of this post was to find out about their time in Greenock & any information relating to the Ice Cream shop, hence the title.
Also being patronising about my research skills is quite insulting.
I think it will be better if we leave this and I do this research on my own.
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This being the original post...
I am searching for some of my ancestors who at one stage lived and apparently operated an Ice Cream Shop in Greenock.
Dominick Bonino was an Italian who lived in Glasgow & Greenock, I have him listed on the 1881 census as living in Market Street & 1885 Valuation Rolls living in Cathcart Street. On his wife's application for relief he is listed as having one in Cartsdyke Street (not sure if this exists) - see attached image.
I've always struggled finding information of them, as the surname changes alot (Bannon, Bonina, Bonnino, Bonham, Bonnayn) and they seem to move around alot. Any information would be great!
Summary of what it gives us:
Dominic Bonino (No yr of birth/death)
Born Italy
Lived Glasgow & Greenock (No dates/places)?
1881 lived in Market St (Glasgow or Greenock)?
1885 living Cathcart Street (Glasgow or Greenock)?
On his wife's application for relief he is listed as having one in Cartsdyke Street (No date)?
I was not patronising, merely explaining why we need to expand on minimum info. such as dates/definitive places/names & such like ::)
Annie
Added,
Yes Annie, I am aware of that post, as it is my post. This is the second post of mine, which has been linked back to me.
Links are for the benefit of other researchers ::)
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This is for the benefit of others trying to help (in case of more duplication of effort) as there is more info. here such as a possible place of where the family originated.
Annie
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This is for the benefit of others trying to help (in case of more duplication of effort) as there is more info. here such as a possible place of where the family originated.
Oooops, forgot the link ;)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01j48/
Annie