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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: lynsfamily on Saturday 31 December 16 11:56 GMT (UK)
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Searching for the family of Mary Ann Robb b: 1820 (perhaps France or Scotland) d: 1844 Tasmania
What I have: In 1835 Charles is identified as the father of Mary Ann Robb, a porter, of Overgate Dundee (trial record of Mary Ann) In trial record of Susan Robb in 1839 he is shown as a porter of Whitehall Close, Dundee. Both Mary Ann and Susan were transported to Australia. Susan was pregnant. Susan left Australia for America c 1854 after her marriage.
Heresay says they were born in France??? and their mother was Elizabeth and they fled France during the French wars.. Any ideas on how to confirm this?
Maryann B: 20/02/1820
Susan B: Abt 1823
Jessie?? B: abt 1826 – in Dumfries
In April 1838 Susan and her sister Margaret appear before a magistrate at Dundee for stealing plus at least once more before Susan was transported in 1839.
Maryann named her three children born in Tasmania – Jessie, Elizabeth & Maryann.
Conjecture on my part – Could this be Maryann’s family?:
Several births with Father Charles and Mother Elizabeth [Dalling] in Dumfries, Scotland.
Elizabeth Robb Ch: 3/1/1822
Margaret Robb ch 10/3/1826
John Robb B: 4/4/1828 Bp 9/4/1828 D: 08/03/1839
John Robb B: 10/10/1830
Elizabeth Robb Ch: 3/1/1822
Margaret Robb ch 10/3/1826
Charles Robb Abt 1833
Tried the 1841 census but I don’t have enough information to ascertain whether they are same family.
Any pointers or assistance appreciated
::).
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lynsfamily, from the details you posted for the family of Charles Robb and wife Elizabeth, these are likely them in 1841 from what you included above:
Charles Robb 45 Cabinet Maker
Elizebeth Robb 40
Mary Robb 15
Margrate Robb 13
John Robb 10
Charles Robb 7
Address: Church Crescent, Dumfries
Not sure if father Charles above fits with a Charles, carter, up in Dundee in the 1830s... :-\
Monica
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How about this entry from the Old Parish Registers for Susan?
Susan Robb, parents Charles Robb and Janet Elder.
Born or christened on 01/09/1822 in Dundee.
If you are not familiar, Janet and Jessie are common variants and interchangeable in Scotland. See for example www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Jessie.html
Monica
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Likely marriage or banns for this couple in 30/11/1811 in Coupar Angus. Again, this entry shows in the Old Parish Registers. Because these entries are from the OPRs and pre the start of official registrations, there may not be more than one liners on the registers which little info to help you further unfortunately.
Monica
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I think this is probably the family...
There are also entries for the following children here (from Family Search) https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Arobb~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Acharles~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Ajanet~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Aelder~
These include a Mary in 1818, Susan as we had above from 1822 and also a Margaret in 1812. If you have access/subscription to Ancestry, there are a number of family trees for this line there. I think the date you had for Mary Ann above (1820) came from the family of Charles and Elizabeth (Dalling)?
This is given as a possible 1841 census entry for this family:
Charles Robb 56 flax dresser
Jannet Robb 60
Margret Robb 25
Jannet Robb 5
Address Duck Hill, Dundee
Monica
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1851 and this Charles is showing as a harbour porter in Dundee:
Thomas Robb 29
Elizebath Robb 28
Charles Robb 68 father, harbour porter, b. Nugle, Forfarshire
Isabella Robb 9
George Robb 7
Thomas Robb 2
Address 3 Hendersons Wynd, Dundee
Monica
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Heresay says they were born in France??? and their mother was Elizabeth and they fled France during the French wars.. Any ideas on how to confirm this?
Maryann B: 20/02/1820
Susan B: Abt 1823
Jessie?? B: abt 1826 – in Dumfries
Think France was at peace from 1815 up to the Crimean War(1853-1856).
ev
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Attached is the research results for my missing family. None of them were born in France, just the fanciful dream of a young girl perhaps. Many thanks to Monica for her assistance in pointing me in the right direction. So glad for her input.
Lyn
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Lyn, mother Janet Elder looks to have died at the age of 49 in 1833 from Cholera (there was an epidemic in the country at that time). Burial at Howff Graveyard in Dundee.
See www.fdca.org.uk/pdf%20files/HowffE02.pdf
Some possible connected deaths for the children of George and Janet here www.fdca.org.uk/pdf%20files/HowffR05.pdf
Monica :)
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I've never heard of a place named Nugle, or anything similar, in Angus. I wonder if this is a mistake for Meigle in Perthshire, which is next door to Coupar Angus and to the county of Angus? Does 'Nugle' come from the original or from a transcription, because if it's from a transcription (especially on Ancestry which is notorious for creative misspellings) you need to take a look at the original.
Also I see you have an approximate date of death for Charles, but there is nothing matching it on SP. Where did this come from? And where did the names of his parents (Andrew and Mary) come from?
There is a burial of a Charles Robb, aged 66, heckler, born Kirriemuir, last address Duckhill, in the Howff on 10 October 1845. The age doesn't fit with the one in the 1841 census at Duck Hill, but the occupation and address do match. There's also a burial of Janet Clark, 72, widow of Charles Robb, weaver, Duck Hill, on 26 May 1846. Again, the age doesn't fit but the rest does. So I don't think the family at Duck Hill in 1841 is yours. Charles Robb and Janet Clark were married in 1804 and had Margaret (1807), Thomas John (1809), Helen (1811), and William (1814) and there may have been other children.
Janet Elder, wife of Chas Robb, who was buried in the Howff in 1833, was from Cupar Angus. Coupar Angus is the next parish to Meigle, and is partly in Angus but mainly in Perthshire. Charles Robb and Janet Elder were married in Coupar Angus in 1811 and had Margaret (1812), George Irven (1816), Mary Porter (1818), Thomas Maxwell (1820) and Susan Ann (1822), and there may have been other children.
I note with mild interest that the Community Contributed IGI at FamilySearch has a listing of a Charles Robb, born 1778 in Meigle, Angus. I would not trust the Community Contributed IGI further than I could throw the nearest oak tree, but it would nevertheless be quite interesting to see where this came from. The source citations in the CCIGI are effectively useless, because they cite only the LDS Church's own film number (in this case film number 451119) without saying what it is a film of, so you have no idea whether or not the information is at all reliable.
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I am researching Charles Robb 1778-1854 (my 4th Gt Gdfr) & hope the following is useful:
The original copy of the 1851 census confirms his birthplace as Meigle (Nugle a typo), his estim. birth 1783, living as a widower with son Thomas & family in Dundee. I have not yet found an original birth record or have any good links to his possible parents or siblings (and would welcome any suggestions!). Charles was a licensed Harbour Porter at Dundee with references thru the 1851 census, 1824/5 Dundee Register & his death record (and possibly also in court records linked to his daughters, Margaret, Mary & Susan). I have not yet traced a 1841 census record for him.
Original death record not seen but FindMyPast transcript lists his occupation and birth in 1784 and death in Dundee 25 May 1854/Burial 28 May 1854. I would assume he was buried at the Howff (as his wife Janet was) but have no evidence of it.
The above looks a better link to alternate to Charles Robb 1779 Kirriemuir - 1845 bur Howff.
Have looked at pos parents Chas Robb & Agnes Irvine but birth record of 1790 & location (Hole, Woodrow?) look wrong. Irvine might have provided a link to George Irven Robb, eldest son of Charles & Janet.
It looks like Charles might have continued working as a harbour porter up until his death (he was still working age 68 in 1851). There is an original wedding record to Janet Elder at Coupar on 30 Nov 1811, with both of them being listed as living in the parish at the time. I believe the best DOB for Janet is 23 Nov 1790 at Coupar and died 28 Oct 1833 of cholera, buried at the Howff, but have not seen records. I have not traced her parents & a pos link to Mathew Elder/Catherine Young in Scoonie, 1782 does not look likely.
Of the children:
George Irven - baptism record in Dundee Oct 1816 gives earliest date for C & J moving to Dundee, with C working as a labourer. I have not found any other firm records for him. There are links to a George Robb & Jean Donaldson in the 1851 Dundee census, with George working as a street porter but with a birth of 1812. A George Robb married Margaret Morrison in Glasgow 1862, but there no other links. Jessie Whitton also listed as his wife in other lines.
Daughters Margaret, Mary (Porter?) & Susan Ann all seem to have had repeat court appearances in Dundee or Perth. I have only so far traced one for Susan in 1839 when she was transported to Tasmania. She had also been prosecuted in 1836 & 1838 (possibly with her sister Margaret). Per other lines, Mary was transported in 1835 & died 1844. Susan emigrated to California in 1849 (Gold Rush?) & died Georgia in 1896. Margaret may have had three court appearances in 1838 but remained in Dundee and was married with 5 children. I have not yet had chance to visit the Edinburgh Archives to access the other original court documents. I also have not been able to link to the Australian sources shared on Ancestry.
Son Thomas Maxwell married Elizabeth Ogilvie (1823 - ?) in 1842 & then Elizabeth Arnold in 1857 after moving to Glasgow, working as a Journeyman Coach smith. I'm trying to confirm his death, with some records showing 1 Feb 1872 in Rattray. I'm interested in what he did in Glasgow after 1851 and his children (Isabella, Thomas & Margaret) who remained there. Son George Ogilvie, a Coach painter, moved to Leeds sometime between 1861 & 71.
Hope this useful & would much appreciate any additional colour on any mistakes gaps highlighted.