RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Indiana.59 on Wednesday 04 January 17 05:42 GMT (UK)
-
I have a birth in Tomintoul 1802 - place name unknown to me - Does anyone know of this area or farm in Tomintoul - many thanks -
-
These are old maps of the area around Tomintoul. I can see a few slightly similar names but not one that seems to match :-\
http://maps.nls.uk/view/74427083
http://maps.nls.uk/view/74427083
Kay
Added - I keep coming back to this one :-\ http://maps.nls.uk/view/74427083#zoom=5&lat=8892&lon=11513&layers=BT
-
For anyone else who, like me, was mightily confused:
Tomintoul is a village in Scotland; formerly in Banffshire.
So, nothing to do with Kirkmichael on the Isle of Man :-\
-
For anyone else who, like me, was mightily confused:
Tomintoul is a village in Scotland; formerly in Banffshire.
So, nothing to do with Kirkmichael on the Isle of Man :-\
It's on the wrong board, so confusion is understandable. ;)
Kay may have found the correct place, but in order to confirm, maybe you could check the baptisms of other children, assuming a place name is given, to see how it is written. The parent's marriage might also be worth a look.
-
These are old maps of the area around Tomintoul. I can see a few slightly similar names but not one that seems to match :-\
http://maps.nls.uk/view/74427083
http://maps.nls.uk/view/74427083
Kay
Added - I keep coming back to this one :-\ http://maps.nls.uk/view/74427083#zoom=5&lat=8892&lon=11513&layers=BT
I'd agree with Delnalyne - there's a list of place names from the OS books on Scotland's Places, and the list for Kirkmichael can be found at http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/place-names/Kirkmichael?id=1008&class=parish&county=Banffshire
-
Well first of all thank you Kay99 - Alex father William was based on a farm called Delachule just near to the place Dalynalion as written in his baptistism - I have just by-passed it time and time again thinking it was just another old spelling for Delachule - but today bless you - you have put me right - as for the survey maps I have used before - but at the moment as I have just moved my laptop is in storage and dreaded using the ever so small maps on the phone - but thanks to Kay99- there it was right in front of my eyes - it now adds another slant to my kinsfolk - Alex being my GGG grandfather born 1802 - so I just presumed it was Delachule home of his father - Alex did take on Delachule after his father left it - for Kirkmichael not sure why I put that up I think it because Kirkmichael just comes up for that time - and yes it is Tomintoul - Kirkmichael - Banffs - thank you all B-)
-
Glad it ties up with the existing info you have on the family :)
Kay
Added if you google Delnalyne Tomintoul you should find a photo of the house
-
Glad it ties up with the existing info you have on the family :)
Kay
Added if you google Delnalyne Tomintoul you should find a photo of the house
Thank you Kay99 - the pictures are free to post - so here we go - Dalynalion as it was once known and the track from Lagganvoulin to Dalynalion and a randy Stuart and an illegitimate child at Delachule now we know how he got there - it would have been down to Dalynalion and across the foot bridge to Delachule - he he he 8) - and if anyone says we could have done with a little less info - God bless 'em ::)
-
Hi,
Dalnaloin, to the east of and south of Tomintoul is marked on the General Roy 1747 - 1752 Military map (see attached ref http://maps.nls.uk/geo/roy/index.cfm#zoom=14&lat=57.2439&lon=-3.3016&layers=roy-highlands)
Regards
Istrice
-
Indiana,
Now that you have pics, I bet you'd love to visit?
Highland Scotland is beautiful...enough said! ;)
Annie
-
Hi,
Dalnaloin, to the east of and south of Tomintoul is marked on the General Roy 1747 - 1752 Military map (see attached ref http://maps.nls.uk/geo/roy/index.cfm#zoom=14&lat=57.2439&lon=-3.3016&layers=roy-highlands)
Regards
Istrice
Lovely - one thing I have noted is the Shaws who are forever moving about always seem to move along the forever military road - cheers for that :)
-
Indiana,
Now that you have pics, I bet you'd love to visit?
Highland Scotland is beautiful...enough said! ;)
Annie
I have designs to live there Annie - just trying to find an area to which my family still relates to as most of mine where lost to Canada - enough said ;)
-
How nice that would be & I hope it happens for you.
Which part of Canada are you in now?
I have relatives in Canada descended from emigrants from Scotland but a lot later, 1920's.
The ones I believe are mine from the 1800's I can't find any paper trail to prove it :(
Annie
-
How nice that would be & I hope it happens for you.
Which part of Canada are you in now?
I have relatives in Canada descended from emigrants from Scotland but a lot later, 1920's.
The ones I believe are mine from the 1800's I can't find any paper trail to prove it :(
Annie
Sorry not sure if it's my ID but I am from the UK - my grandfather seems to be the only one to have stayed here - the rest are in Winnipeg - in Canada - though my great dad seems to be buried in Ajax for some reason - they all seemed to have started out in different ports of America first - one being a William who landed in Indiana - hence my nickname I think - I have just landed in a place called Haydon Bridge - near to Hexham - land of coal fires it seems - not doing my asthma any good - so just for the fun of it I might trip over to Carlisle - quick stop in Glasgow - then up to Aviemore - then down across to Kirkmichael - where I hoping the coal fires are hopefully more spaced out - ha ha ha - as for your lost family to Canada - maybe an appeal on here would help - as there is more people in the know as how to go about it - there is so many of my Shaw's in Winnipeg - I'm not even going to bother with it - time they come home - the ideology of my thoughts are just to catch up on folks I can remember as a child - so that leaves Leochel - Cushnie my grandfather place of birth - with a view of getting there with a "My folks from Leochel - Cushnie are from Tomintoul before hand - and give me something to natter and catch up on while I'm there - te he :)
-
For anyone else who, like me, was mightily confused:
Tomintoul is a village in Scotland; formerly in Banffshire.
So, nothing to do with Kirkmichael on the Isle of Man :-\
There are actually four parishes in Scotland called Kirkmichael - one each in Banffshire, Perthshire, Dumfries-shire and Ayrshire IIRC.
Tomintoul is the largest settlement in the Banffshire one. Banffshire still exists as a historic and ceremonial county, and for purposes of family history research this Kirkmichael, including Tomintoul, belongs to Banffshire; the modern local authority boundaries date only from 1975 and are not helpful when researching anything that happened before then.
-
For anyone else who, like me, was mightily confused:
Tomintoul is a village in Scotland; formerly in Banffshire.
So, nothing to do with Kirkmichael on the Isle of Man :-\
There are actually four parishes in Scotland called Kirkmichael - one each in Banffshire, Perthshire, Dumfries-shire and Ayrshire IIRC.
Tomintoul is the largest settlement in the Banffshire one. Banffshire still exists as a historic and ceremonial county, and for purposes of family history research this Kirkmichael, including Tomintoul, belongs to Banffshire; the modern local authority boundaries date only from 1975 and are not helpful when researching anything that happened before then.
Appreciated Forfarian - the boundaries overlapping do not help things - but has to noted - some say Tomintoul did not exist prior to 1775 when Gordon of the Gordon then built Tomintoul as it now - but the locals spread out around Tomintoul itself did exist prior to 1775 I am sure - as I found a death of an William Shaw dating back to 1640 - marked up as Tomintoul - the problem here arose I think as it was a hand writing decipher and was not place in the banffs section - and of couse there is more than one Tomintoul - my fault completely - but all of the information received by yourself helps a great deal as there are the four local areas to be considered when finding your folk - name places are repeated all over the world - which again does not help without the full details - nawty me :-\
-
some say Tomintoul did not exist prior to 1775 when Gordon of the Gordon then built Tomintoul as it now
They are quite right. The village of Tomintoul is one of the numerous planned villages created in the late 18th and early 19th century (the period known as the 'Scottish Enlightenment') by landowners, and it presumably took the name of a pre-existing farm or croft or clachan.
You can always spot a planned town or village because the street plan involves straight streets in a rectangular pattern, the main streets usually quite wide, and the houses usually built with their long front elevation on the street. Older places have winding narrow lanes and the houses are often built with gable ends to the street. Cullen is a good place to see this because the Seatown has the wynds and gable ends to the street/sea, and the upper town is a classic planned town of the early 19th century. The larger old places have a mediaeval street plan where the main street widens in the middle to accommodate the kirk and market, and there are lots of narrow alleys or vennels or closes running off it at right angles. Elgin and Forres are examples of this.
The motivation for the fashion for building planned villages was partly philanthropic, to provide better accommodation for the populace, though in many of them the tenants had to build their own houses according to the overall plan and guidelines. Sometimes it was to increase income from the land by letting tenements, which in this context means narrow strips of land stretching back behind the house (IIRC Rothes is one of these, and possibly Grantown-on-Spey). Sometimes it was to get rid of an unsightly clutter of hovels close to the walls of the landowner's house and move the 'hoi polloi' a mile or so away (Fochabers and New Scone, for example).
but the locals spread out around Tomintoul itself did exist prior to 1775 I am sure
Yes. IIRC the village of Tomintoul was created to provide housing and work in weaving for the inhabitants of the area.
not place in the banffs section
How do you mean? Where did you find it?
there is more than one Tomintoul
Indeed. There's the one in the parish of Kirkmichael, Banffshire http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ1618,
one just outside Braemar in Aberdeenshire http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO1490 and one in Strathnairn, Inverness-shire http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH6628 that spring to mind, and I am almost certain I've seen another one somewhere. The Scotland's Places web site only lists the Banffshire one.
name places are repeated all over the world - which again does not help without the full details
Spot on. In Scotland, you have to know the name of the parish you are dealing with - some parishes are partly in one county and partly in another (Cromdale Inverallan and Advie, for instance, or Boharm) and there is one (Logie) that is in three counties - partly in Perthshire, partly in Stirlingshire and partly in Clackmannanshire.
Where there are two or more parishes with the same name you also need to know which county or counties they belong to.
-
l lived at Delnalyne a few years ago. The house you see in the photograph earlier in the thread is correct (probably taken about 10 years ago), however it was rebuilt from ruins which had been there for many years about 1990 so although built from local stone, it is in reality a modern interpretation. I refurbished the house and replanted the garden putting in hedges and trees. The shared track to the road was upgraded to make it passable as it winds up and down the hillside.
Local pronounciation of Delnalyne varied; I never asked why but was called what sounded like Daline by some. This may tie in with the earlier spelling.
It is an exceptionally windy position alongside the Conglass which varies from a gentle meander to a fast flowing stream. In winter the snow often blows horizontally and the trees I planted were often bent over at 90 degrees. Access in winter was strictly by 4x4 with even this left on the roadside and a half mile walk undertaken to the cottage somtimes. The wildlife was varied and determined.
To get a flavour of the area you could read "The moons our nearest neighbour" which is one persons view of living in the wilds. (Ghillie Basan).
Tomintoul is a mixture of locals and English who have escaped to a quieter life. The scenery is rugged and beautiful and the paths into the hills are a delight.
Hope this helps.
-
Hello Jimmy
Awwww nice to know you lived there and refurbished it - as my learning of the place I would like to know more on it as it seems to be the start of where the Shaw's landed before Delachule across the way - Dalnalyne was William Shaw's home address prior to marrying Euphemia Grant of Findron in 1795 and there seem to have been other Shaw's with him - perhaps his brothers and possibly his father . . .
Would like to see a photo of it as to how it stands now if you have any remaining after all your hard work and where did you end up thereafter . . .
Taken note of the book and I shall look it up and have a good read and must say how nice of you to let me know you have actually lived there . . .
I will as soon as I have all information be making a trip up to Aviemore then tripping down into Tomintoul itself to visit the research center there and the Kirk yards, then off to see all the places my family has lived as there are a few houses on Main st of Tomintoul that came up at a later date
The wind and the snow you did well to live there and you have totally put me off ever wishing to reside in one of my old folks houses ha ha ha . . .
Thanks for the message enjoyed that - Indiana . . . :)
-
Have you researched Scalan Seminary which is nearby? If you have an afternoon, this is well worth a walk out, where you can stand and imagine the hardship that the priests went through. Records go back some 300 years. Google will provide various links.
-
Ello jimmy
Oh right no Jimmy - on account, I never heard of it - but I should as there do seem to be some priests in the family via the Shaw's and Grant's and Mcpherson's of the family . . .
So I have checked on it and bookmarked it - Not sure if it was John Shaw the Priest who ended up in Glasgow in the 1800's . . .
I will not be going to Tomintoul until I have all information I can get here by hand - so that's another little gem to add to the list - many thanks . . .
I do not drive myself and was thinking of getting a horse to get about to all of these places on the presumption it knows its own terrain - ha ha ha . . .
Brilliant and kind regards again - Indiana . . . ;)
-
I will as soon as I have all information be making a trip up to Aviemore then tripping down into Tomintoul itself to visit the research center there
There isn't a 'research centre' in Tomintoul.
-
Ello Forfarian
Thank you Forfarian I think I was getting mixed up with the museum in Tomintoul - So I would say a trip to Tomintoul ASAP to see what I can find via word of mouth - some of the Shaw family ended up on Main St - Tomintoul in later years and the Grants family are still there as far as I know . . .
As Inchrory was also marked down as under Tomintoul and with relatives in Corgarff I think basing myself at Tomintoul for a week or two would not go amiss . . .
Luckily in Tomintoul itself, most farms were based on the same road coming in and out of Tomintoul and most farms in the area have had family in them at one time or another . . .
It will be finding accommodation for one person that will be my problem as most places cater for families . . .
But just to say Aviemore will be my starting point . . .
Kind regards Indiana . . . :)