RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Polly007 on Thursday 05 January 17 21:02 GMT (UK)
-
Hi
This is the occupation of a 15 year old girl in 1891. Does anyone know what it says, please?
Thank you so much :)
-
Hi Polly and welcome to rootschat ..It looks like glove winder to me
Rosie :)
-
Welcome Polly,
Tricky with the line through the beginning of the word isn't it.
? ? Winder . . . been looking up old occupations and can't see what would fit.
Looks like Flow - don't know what that would be though. Might be something to do with winding thread onto spools in a weaving mill. Don't know though.
Wiggy :-\ :)
Red post - ah ha! That's a thought Rosie! Though I can't see the 'G'
-
Corn winder?
Can you tell us her name and where she is?
-
Cone Winder?
-
Cone Winder?
That's what I think too. :)
-
Cone Winder?
But there's an " l " in it?
What part of the country are we looking at? That might help.
-
I’ll vote with Rosie for Glove Winder. There is a faint loop at the top, making the letter look like a 9, which was a variation of a g without a loop at the bottom used by some writers.
-
Cone Winder?
But there's an " l " in it?
What part of the country are we looking at? That might help.
I think that what does look like an "l" is actually a capital "C", it being the first letter of the word and the darker stroke before it being part of the line crossing through :)
-
Flower Winder?
Carol
-
Cone winder Winding Room Takes thread from hanks (from spinning)
and winds onto cardboard bobbins
forming a cone of thread.
-
I still agree with Matthew.
The darker lines are made later - perhaps checking the census thus leaving the word 'Cone'.
I favoured it because I know it was an occupation from the cotton mills - and we had a lot of them around here.
Tomkin has given the occupation description.
-
Could also be Throw Winder as in Silk Mills.
Silk throwing is the process where the filament from the bobbins is given its full twist. The process where filaments or threads from three or more bobbins are wound together is called doubling.
Just a guess.
-
Mmm....
We need Polly to come back soon ;)
-
Polly, can you show us more of the census.
It will show how the corrections have be made.
Also other members of the family may work at the same place.
This could identify the type of industry.
I'm with Matthew and Heywood. :D :D
-
Thank you so much, everyone, for your replies!
The area this is from is St Margarets in Leicestershire. I don't know if that helps or not?
Thanks again :)
-
Hi again
Here is the whole household :)
-
Well it's very difficult :-\ and am not as positive now.
Here is the reference - it took a while to find her!
1891 Piece 2530, folio 151 , page 23
-
Thanks Polly but I meant the jobs that they had :D :D :D :D
-
The occupation column is there. You just need to scroll it to the right :)
-
" The occupation column is there. You just need to scroll it to the right :)"
I think I need to go to bed. ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Heehee :D
-
What was her occupation in 1901?
If in the same 'field' would possibly give a clue?
Annie
-
In 1901 and 1911, she was a Domestic Servant :)
-
Och well...I think Cone Winder myself.
Annie
-
It may be an idea to find out what Sewing/Weaving/Knitting Factories were in the area at the time?
Annie
-
I had a quick look at other census pages last night and there are a couple of winders but not much help really. The handwriting doesn't help either.
Still my favourite - cone winder.
-
Just been reading up on Leicester hosiery manufacturing - some interesting artcles online.
I thought Cone last night but I'm wondering if it's just Hosier winder - badly written.
-
Late to this thread, but I'm sure it is Glove Winder.
Leicester was a centre for the manufacture of both hosiery and gloves. The extract below, though much earlier than the census, shows the usage of winder in the context of glove-making ...
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YQ4qAAAAYAAJ
Second Report of the Commissioners into the Employment of Children: Trades and Manufactures (1843), p. 12
Hosiery and Gloves – Nottingham and Leicester
67. In the Leicester district Children begin to work at very early ages ... Mr William Cummings, manufacturer of woollen and Lisle thread gloves: “Winders begin about nine; in Leicester it is usual for Children to begin to work at the frame from eleven to fourteen years of age ...”
-
Not sure about the ending, BB. I've been checking and the end seems to match the r flourish in other words - the es don't have as much flourish,
Cf the e in wife with the ending
Tricky one.
(Added - looking through the pages, they seem to be mainly engaged in shoe/stocking making, With stockings, it was frameworker, winder and finisher )
-
Just been reading up on Leicester hosiery manufacturing - some interesting artcles online.
I thought Cone last night but I'm wondering if it's just Hosier winder - badly written.
Yes, looks like hose winder.
I can see where they get glove from, apart from the first letter, which I can't see as a G at all. Plenty of hose winders in the censuses.
Mike
-
Was about to say, Mike, that if you flick through the pages, there are examples where just 'winder' was written and the census coder has subsequently written 'hose' in front.
-
Was about to say, Mike, that if you flick through the pages, there are examples where just 'winder' was written and the census coder has subsequently written 'hose' in front.
Good. And I think that's a pretty clear H at the beginning, despite the tangle of the last few letters.
-
Having looked at the full pages I'm now leaning towards it being "Glove". The letters in "..love" look consistent with others on the page, the dark down stroke matches the same in the "G" for "Green".
-
I can see where you get glove from, apart from the first letter, which I can't see as a G at all.
The top part of the first letter is faded, but I can see the curve of the G to the left of the downstroke. I can't see a letter H that looks like that.
This extract below is from the previous page -- similar G, different H.
I'm still going with Glove. Looks like we'll have to agree to differ on this one :)
-
I can see where you get glove from, apart from the first letter, which I can't see as a G at all.
The top part of the first letter is faded, but I can see the curve of the G to the left of the downstroke. I can't see a letter H that looks like that.
This extract below is from the previous page -- similar G, different H.
I'm still going with Glove. Looks like we'll have to agree to differ on this one :)
Happy to agree to differ, although hose winder is an occupation and glove winder isn't
-
What is a Glove Winder?
Added - there are hose winders and cone winders but nowhere have I seen glove winder.
-
The top part of the first letter is faded, but I can see the curve of the G to the left of the downstroke. I can't see a letter H that looks like that.
This is where I see the H.
-
What is a Glove Winder?
Added - there are hose winders and cone winders but nowhere have I seen glove winder.
The extract I quoted above in reply #28 shows that winders were used in the glove industry, presumably for winding thread on bobbins etc.
-
This is where I see the H.
Fair enough, Mike. It's just that I can't see another H in these pages that looks like that.
-
There is a Glove Stitcher on page 11 of the same district - see attached
-
Codes have been pencilled next to many of the occupations - "Tob" for cigar makers; "B" for shoe/boot factory workers; "Hos M" or just "M" next to hosiery for those workers.
The one in question doesn't have a pencilled code, which probably discounts it as a hosiery worker.
I think it was meant to be Glove Stitcher or something else and the "Winder" is a typo.
M :)
-
Have looked through various online interpretations/transcriptions of the occupation - the one source that I usually use has her as a '? winder' - so not much use there ::)
I see that the head of the household is a frame work knitter and above that the occupational/industrial coder has written ' Hose m' (assume manufacture)
added -think it might be best to say that she was a winder of thread onto a spool for use by a knitter (hand or machine) in the Leicester clothing industry :)
-
You guys are amazing!! Thank you so much for all your help :)
From my very amateur point of view, this is what I think.
I can't see the first letter as an H because the others have a loop across, rather than a single line, to join the two vertical lines.
I can see that the first letter may be a C, with the dark downward stroke not being part of the first letter at all.
I can also see that the first letter may be a G, with the first part of it being faded.
So, I'm left with Cone or Glove Winder :) I have to say that I'm leaning more towards Glove Winder on the appearance of the letters. For now, I'll put "? (maybe Cone or Glove) Winder" on my tree :)
I would still appreciate any more thoughts on this and I am very appreciative of your help :)
-
Coir winder
-
There is a Glove Stitcher on page 11 of the same district - see attached
Adding comparison of Stitcher and Winder for consideration
-
Thank you so much for the comparison, matthewj64. This is amazing!! For me, at least, this gives a conclusion that it is definitely Glove Winder.
Thank you again 8)
-
Well done, Matthew :)
-
That looks very good :)
-
Great find Matthew...result.
Carol
-
Thank you so much for the comparison, matthewj64. This is amazing!! For me, at least, this gives a conclusion that it is definitely Glove Winder.
Thank you again 8)
Just keep in mind that if it does say Glove Winder that, as others have said, this was not an occupation, so it may be a mistake made by the enumerator and should be Stitcher or something else - and I wouldn't say for certain that it says Glove, its a hard one to be 100% sure on either way
-
I'm going to put a note on my tree record to reflect your comments :)