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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: Aks on Saturday 07 January 17 19:33 GMT (UK)
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On 20 Mar 1899, William Levi Frier, born in 1877 in Alcester, Warwickshire, England, married Adelaide Mary Weeks (or Weekes), born about 1874 in Goytrey, Monmouthshire, England.
Adelaide is to be found on the 1881 and 1891 censuses with her family. Her parents are William Weeks, born Abt. 1842 in Brecknockshire, Wales, and Margaret James, born Abt. 1842 in Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire, Wales. They married in 1867 in Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales.
Their first two children, Margaretta Louisa Weeks (b 1867) and Elizabeth Ann Weeks (b 1869) are to be found on the censuses and one finds their births in the GRO index with mother's maiden name James, born in Goytrey, Monmouthshire, England. The fifth child, Alfred David Wheedon Weeks (b Pontypool, Monmouthshire) is also to be found in the GRO index with mother's maiden name James, which suggests that Margaret Weeks, née James, is still alive and well.
However, I cannot find any records of the births of the 3rd and 4th children, respectively, Adelaide Mary Weeks (b Abt. 1874) and William Weeks (b Abt. 1876), both in Goytrey, Monmouthshire, England according to the census records.
There are a couple of possible William's born in Pontypool at about the right time, but with different mother's surnames (Robins and Carpenter), but I can't find any record of a birth of Adelaide, who is the person I am particularly interested in!
I'm wondering if anyone has any idea what might be going on here?
The reason I'm interested in Adelaide is that I'm trying to trace this family line forward in time. They seem to have had one daughter, Victoria Adelaide Frier (b 1901 in New Inn, Pontypool, Monmouthshire). However, I cannot find any trace of them after that.
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Hi she was baptised as ADALIDE Mary Weeks 19th March 1876 Goetre Father William Mother Margaret
The same day William and Margaret baptised a Wm George Weeks
Keyboard86
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the baptism was the same day as siblings William George and Elizabeth Anne, so his birth reg
William George Weekes march qtr 1876 Pontypool vol 11a pg 179
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Adelaide Mary mmn James is shown as WICKS
Keyboard86
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possible birth reg
Adelaide Mary Wicks sept qtr 1872 Pontypool vol 11a pg 167 mother's maiden name James
She may have a 'lost' a year or so when marrying a younger man.
;)
posts crossed
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GRO Index has William Leslie Frier born DecQtr 1901 - Pontypool 11a-169 mmn Weeks.
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Freebmd has Death Reg: Adelaide M Frier aged 82 - Bournemouth 6b-187 Mar 1955 Qtr.
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Thank you very much, keyboard86, osprey and kanskar for that brilliant detective work. It's the first time for me to come across misspellings of surnames in the GRO index and this within one family. Or should I say different spellings, as who knows which one is correct.
Concerning William Leslie Frier born Dec Qtr 1901 - Pontypool 11a-169 mmn Weeks, there is also a Victoria Adelaide Frier born Mar Qtr 1901 - Pontypool 11a -166 mmn Weekes. But I wonder how they could have 2 children within a year?
Best wishes,
Alan
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Hi Victoria Adelaide FRYER was baptised 20th February 1901 Panteg, William Leslie 19th Janary 1902 Panteg (1st baptism in 1902 Panteg)
Something odd re registration year?
Keyboard86
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Hi Victoria Adelaide FRYER was baptised 20th February 1901 Panteg, William Leslie 19th Janary 1902 Panteg (1st baptism in 1902 Panteg)
Something odd re registration year?
Keyboard86
Why - if he was b December 1901 he could be registered then and baptised inthe new year.
11 months apart - feasible, but exhausting!
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;D Maybe because "later" he gives 21st December 1902 or even 24th December 1902?
Keyboard
But overall agree, but Cream Crackering as my old man was heard to say!
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I see- don;t have access to "later" hence my confusion!
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I see- don;t have access to "later" hence my confusion!
;D That was the reason re William L how he was baptised before he was born ;D
Keyboard
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Have a sighting of William Levi - railway manager returning from Tanganyika to Penperllenny [sic] Pontypool in 1923, then in 1926 to 70 East Sheen Road, Richmond
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think he could be well travelled. there's a William L Frier b c1877 joining the freemasons in Columbo, Ceylon in 1907. Occupation - traffic superintendent
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Starting to trace them now
7 august 1902: Mr W L frier to Colombo (there's also a Mrs Frier, male infant age 2 and female infant age 1 to Colombo - listed separately. Not sure they're ours, given the wrong ages)
W Frier in Feb 1914 to Ceylon - occupation traffic sup., Ceylon railway
January 1915 - Mrs A M Frier, 38 and Ralph, 2 to Colombo
December 1923 - Mrs Adelaide Frier, Penperlleny, Pontypool. To colombo
Aha
October 1925 - Mrs Adelaide Frier, 46, Victoria A, 25 and Ralph Seymour, 17 rturn from Colombo to a hotel in London
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1923 - returning from Colombo, W L Frier aged 21, shop assistant. gheading to 107 Glenroy St, Roath Park, Cardiff
Back to August 1912 - Mrs Frier, child and infant arrive from Colombo.
Master W L Frier arrives from Colombo in March 1912 (not sure who he is travelling with!)
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I htink Ralph may have been born overseas - at his death is dob is 29 Jun 1909 but i cannot see a matching birth in England & Wales
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Hi again, Mrs Victoria Appleyard b 1901 address in UK 18, Sheen Gate Gardens, East Sheen departed 24th March 1922 London to Columbo on Vessel Nankin
Keyboard86
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How does this work? she's Miss Frier in 1925?
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>:( Thats what " later" tells me?
Keyboard
PS Death Victoria A Appleyard Dec qtr 1965 Bournemouth 6b 217 aged 65
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Wow, thank you very much Mabel and Keyboard86. I thought they must have gone abroad, but had no idea where.
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Have double checked and she's definitely listed as Frier in 1925
october 1920 - Miss V Frier (19) and Mr W L Frier (Asst draper, 18) travel out to British East Africa
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Hi, maybe Aks knows who Mr Appleyard is?
Keyboard86
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Sorry, I don't have any information about Mr Appleyard at this point, as I'm just trying to trace this line forward in time. I will repost here anything I find in following up on all this valuable information.
Alan
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Alan, can you confirm that the death in Bournemouth of a Victoria A Appleyard in 1965 is the one you are interested in?
Keyboard86
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Hi keyboard86,
Sorry, at this point, I simply don't know, but I will look into it as best I can and let you know how I get on. However, I won't have much time over the next few days.
I was just working my way forwards from one of my ancestors, though this is a fairly distant line, and got as far as, though not without some difficulty, William Levi Friar and Adelaide Mary Weeks. This is when I got stuck and eventually resorted to posting on rootschat. So, it is not like I had any knowledge of this family from beforehand.
Alan
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Hmm, Ceylon records are hard to come by.
The third child, Ralph Seymour Frier, seems to have returned to England and married Mildred M Bennetts in Croydon in 1932, whereas he seems to be in Shardlow R.D., Derbyshire, England on the 1939 register.
The second child, William Leslie Frier, seems to have married Elizabeth J Geary in 1931 in Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales. They had at least one child, Mary J, in 1932. There seems to be quite a few bits of information about him.
It's possible that Mary J Frier married Harold D Buxton in 1954 in Bournemouth, but it's difficult to be sure.
So far, however, I cannot find any definite trace of the daughter, Victoria Adelaide Frier. If she did marry a Mr Appleyard, it presumably must have been in Ceylon and that looks to be hard to find.
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I just realized that I didn't thank osprey and kanskar for their help on this. Sorry about that.
I wonder if anyone would be in a position to check if either of the following are on the 1939 register?
- William Leslie Frier (b 1901 Pontypool) and his wife, I think Elizabeth J Geary. I think they have 1 child, Mary J Frier (b 1932 Cardiff).
- Ralph Seymour Frier (b 1909 possibly in Ceylon) and his wife, who I think is Mildred M Bennetts. I don't know if they have any children.
Or would it be better if I make a new request in the Lookups section?
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I think that look-ups aren't allowed for the 1939 Register because of copyright. Can you access FindMyPast via your library?
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Ok, thank you, Osprey for that information. Not sure if they'll have it here in Paris, so I may have to go after a subscription!
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Hi again, William Leslie Frier b 24th December 1901 death September qtr 1971 Cardiff 8b 576 possibly his wife Elizabeth died December qtr 1933 Cardiff 11a 502 aged 30
Victoria A Appleyard wondering if Mr Appleyard was an Army man, cannot work out those odd departures showing Appleyard or Frier, believe she was a Widow by 1939?!
Keyboard86
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Hi again, info you may already have :-
Ralph Seymour Frier born 29th June 1909 died February 1998 New Forest, Hampshire aged 88
Mildred Maud Frier born 20th September 1909 died May 1998 New Forest, Hampshire aged 88
Keyboard86
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Thank you Keyboard86 and thank you again Osprey.
I checked all the records I could find for Ceylon on-line, but no trace of them. I read one post on Rootschat about someone who actually went there from Australia and was able to look at books of records, but they were just strewn across the floor of a building with no windows. Also, no idea so far where they went in Ceylon. That avenue does not look to be very fruitful.
Alan
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Thought I'd dig around in the Welsh Newspapers online site as you often find snippets about far flung relatives. Can;t see anything from over there, but there is a news in brief item from 1902 about W L Frier's appointment to Ceylon - looks like he may have moved to London just before
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4236792/4236797/65/
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Wow, thanks, Mabel. That's super interesting. Looks like he had a relatively important job, whereas his immediate ancestors seemed to be simple farm labourers or the like. Curiouser and curiouser!
One would imagine then that he must have been in the capital, Colombo, though difficult to be sure. It's also the kind of job that would explain why he appears to have moved around quite a bit.
Many thanks!
Alan
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It's a phenomenon I've noticed in my family around that time - they went from brushmakers and market gardeners to accountants and solicitors. I think compulsory schooling provided all sorts of new opportunities