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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: DavidJP on Sunday 08 January 17 22:48 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I recently sent of for my maternal grandfather's WW2 RAF service records & received them 4 weeks later! I have since been trying to decode/translate the records. I have I think been reasonably successful with this, but am not 100% certain. This is where hopefully RootsChat comes in!
Below is what I have worked out so far from both the 10 page document I received with the service records & from googling!
My grandfather was John Phillips (1923-1981), service number 1603323 & the below are his list of postings.
Unit From Unit To Date of Movement
Oxford 5-1-42
Oxford Reserve 6-1-42
Res? 1 ACRC (Air Crew Reception Centre) 13-7-42
S. Rhodesia 24-8-42
ITW Boulawayo (Initial Training Wing)
27 EFTS (Elementary Flying Training School) 1-3-43
21 SFTS (Service Flying Training School)
HE (Home Embarkation) 17-12-43
7 PRC (Personnel Reception Centre)
16 EFTS (Elementary Flying Training School) 17-3-44
7 PRC (Personnel Reception Centre) 14-4-44
3 EFTS? (Elementary Flying Training School) 21-4-44
7 PRC (Personnel Reception Centre) 12-5-44
24 ? 17-5-44
7 PRC (Personnel Reception Centre) 14-6-44
Hornchurch (a) ? 19-6-44
7 PRC (Personnel Reception Centre) 21-7-44
A 22 EFTS (Elementary Flying Training School) 8-9-44
7 PRC (Personnel Reception Centre) 18-10-44
4 S of TT (Technical Training Depot)
71 Base 29-12-44
Sturgate (A) ? 29-12-44
71 Base
550 Sqdn (Squadron) 24-3-45
7 PRC (Personnel Reception Centre) 12-4-45
2 ACSEA (Air Command South East Asia)
264 MU? (Maintenance Unit) 11-2-46
Fighter Sector. H.A West ? ? / PLT?/258 18-2-46
Met.? Sect? 16-8-46
100 PDC (Personnel Despatch/Dispersal Centre) 26-9-46
The entries in black are what I have transcribed/read the entries as on the original. The entries in blue are what I have hopefully correctly decoded the abbreviations to be. First time I've had a go at this type of thing, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if I've made a mess of it! ;D
Can anyone fill in the blanks (where the question marks are) for me please?
I don't really understand what the records are telling me. My grandfather seems to have spent a lot of time at flying training schools of one type or another. Another thing that I have noticed is that after his return from Southern Rhodesia, he never seems to be anywhere for very long at all, why?
Below should hopefully be snips of the original list of postings.
Many thanks in advance.
Kind regards
David
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Wonder if the 'A' after Sturgate and Hornchurch is just a for Airfield. Interesting the date he was posted to Hornchurch ~ four days later saw a V1 missile just fall short of the airfield.
http://www.rafhornchurch.thehumanjourney.net/History/Vegeance.htm
claire
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PLT ~ Pilot ?
MET ~ meteorological ?
Google is my best friend ;D
https://ww2memories.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/common-abbreviations-on-ww2-raf-records-l-m-n/
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Hi Claire,
Many thanks for your replies, very much appreciated.
Wonder if the 'A' after Sturgate and Hornchurch is just a for Airfield. Interesting the date he was posted to Hornchurch ~ four days later saw a V1 missile just fall short of the airfield.
Looks like another one hit one of the airfields flightpaths on the same day! Yikes!!
Many thanks for the links, much appreciated.
Pilot would make sense as he was just that. Had been recommended for training as a pilot/observer when he joined up. He was Co-pilot then pilot looking at his other details.
My thanks again.
Kind regards
David
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Hi DavidJP
A little information which hopefully assist your search:
264 Maintenance Unit, formed at Abbot's Ripton August 1945; disbanded September 1948.
RAF Sturgate is a former RAF station located 10 miles (16 km) north of London. It was one of the last bomber airfields built during WW2 and opened too late to see operational service. Refer:
http://www.forgottenairfields.com/united-kingdom/england/lincolnshire/sturgate-s1203.html
RAF Acronyms/Abbreviations: see http://www.associations.rafinfo.org.uk/acronyms.htm
4 S of TT: Refer http://www.raf.mod.uk/modstathan/
The following website can be used to submit information requests related to 550 Squadron members. Refer https://550squadron.wordpress.com/information-request/
Good luck.
q98
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A is attached.
Essentially it means that he is still on the strength of the previous unit (and will usually return after attachment) but for messing and admin/pay his requirements will be provided by the attached unit.
HE is Home Establishment not embarkation. Defines that on qualification after basic training he was assigned to the Home force rather than Field.
Ross
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Generally the answer to many movements for newly trained aircrew in the 1944/45 period is that the system of training had become too efficient and there was an excess of aircrew coming out of the schools and OTU compared to losses.
Many pilots were re-assigned to Glider Pilot Regiment to make up losses at Arnhem as well as being used for interim admin duties.
However in this case I inclined to think of another reason specific to the man.
Can you copy the Mustering section of the Record? It will clear things up.
Ross
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Hi q98 & Ross,
Many thanks for replies, very much appreciated.
q98 many thanks for details re 264 maintenance unit & RAF Sturgate, many thanks for links also, much appreciated.
Ross, many thanks for info thus far, much appreciated. Below is mustering section as requested, also the promotions section.
I know that my grandfather was a Warrant Officer at War's end.
My thanks again.
Kind regards
David
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Cheers for that - makes things clearer.
He deviates from the normal service pilot training progression on return to the UK.
I would normally expect PRC to Advanced Pilot Flying Unit, (P)AFU, to Operational Training Unit, OTU, then Heavy Conversion Unit, HCU, and possibly Lancaster Finishing School, LFS. Roughly 1.5 years from entry to operational squadron.
As an aside it was considered to take approx 50 flying hours from no flying experience recruit to pilot in command of Lancaster/Halifax in 1944. In 2010 the RAF used the estimate of 45 flying hours from raw entrant to pilot in command of Typhoon jet. So in both cases the common denominator is time to gain muscle/brain motor skill rather than aircraft complexity,
The mustering shows he gained Pilot qualification before return to the UK so the repeat EFTS attachments are not flying assessments prior to washout decision.
Because he was not posted to (P)AFU he did not stall at this stage. He also retains the Pilot qualification on musterings so did not lose his status.
My take is that at SFTS he was identified has having a exceptional ability for one of the ground instruction classes that was part of normal elementary pilot training. On return to the UK the PRC attached him as a non flying instructor to two EFTS for assement.
He is then used by the PRC as a ad hoc ground class instructor hence the attachments to various EFTS and Stations before being retained by re-training when the wartime training scheme was reduced at end of 1944.
His retraining was at No.4 School of Technical Training.
His rise in the ranks during the UK period is faster than normal for a ground based instructor with pilot qualification so the change of progression path was one that met approval with the "Airships".
Also of note is that on the contraction of the RAF at war end he was not released along with the surplus of Driver(aeroplane) but was retained in post and advanced to Warrant Officer when all around were being reduced from war substansive ranks to lower peace establishment post rank.
Ross
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Hi Ross,
Many thanks for that, very much appreciated.
I had wondered whether or not he had perhaps been an instructor of some description or not.
His rise in the ranks during the UK period is faster than normal for a ground based instructor with pilot qualification so the change of progression path was one that met approval with the "Airships".
What is meant by "Airships" in this context?
My thanks to you again, things are rather clearer to me now, much appreciated.
Kind regards
David
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Sorry, derogatory service slang for Air Officers in the Air Ministry.
Derived from the "Lordships" of the Admiralty meaning the Sea Lords.
Ross
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Hi Ross,
Many thanks for that, much appreciated.
Kind regards
David
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Great story, great man. However the (Hawker) Typhoon was a propeller driven aircraft not a Jet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Typhoon
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Making up your own story BarryD - never said Hawker.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/typhoon.cfm
Ross
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Hi David, great story and looks like you also have had a good time getting the codes deciphered as l did a few years ago when l obtained my Uncles records.
Four weeks wait is brilliant too as it can be up to a year.
Interestingly you may not know that 550 squadron was formed in part from `C` Flight of 100 squadron when at Waltham (Grimsby).
I think 550 was then at North Killinghome?
Sure Ross will know the definitive answer.
Good luck researching!
Steve.
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Hi Steve,
Many thanks for your reply, very much appreciated.
Interestingly you may not know that 550 squadron was formed in part from `C` Flight of 100 squadron when at Waltham (Grimsby).
I think 550 was then at North Killinghome?
I didn't know about the 100 squadron at Waltham/Grimsby connection so thanks for that.
550 Squadron from what I've found were indeed at North Killingholme in South Yorkshire.
My thanks again.
Kind regards
David
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Hi,
I am resurrecting this thread as after further research, more information regarding my grandfathers RAF service has come to light. Using the Ops books (Operations Record Books) at the National Archives & also the transcriptions & other info at the 550 Squadron Association website I have uncovered the following:
My grandfather John Phillips flew 7 missions with 550 Squadron as a Flight Engineer (and presumably was also Co Pilot), these being:
10th/11th April 1945 - City of Plauen in Germany.
14th/15th April 1945 - Potsdam
18th April 1945 - German fortified island of Heligoland
22nd April 1945 - Bremen
25th April 1945 - Wachenfeld (The Berchtesgaden area)
29th April 1945 - Manna Mission - Food being dropped to the people of German occupied Holland.
2nd May 1945 - Manna Mission - Food being dropped to the people of German occupied Holland.
There are no further missions listed for him before or after these dates. He is shown to be a member of F/L Sweeney's crew.
Entry for F/L Sweeney's crew on the 550 Squadron Association's website here: http://www.550squadronassociation.org.uk/documents/public/Lancasters-Crews/FlLtJASweeney/index.php
There is a photo of the crew taken in March 1945 here: http://www.550squadronassociation.org.uk/documents/public/Lancasters-Crews/FlLtJASweeney/Images/FlLtSweeneyCrew.jpg
My grandfather is definitely the man in the middle of the group.
Link to another thread with a photo of the same crew with my grandfather third from right, this photo is one in my possession, and the thread was started in an effort to find out the names of my grandfathers crew mates. It is most definitely the same crew. This photo I now believe to have been taken at RAF North Killingholme in 1945: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=664850.0
They are recorded on the Association website as having been posted from 1662 CU, this is 1662 HCU who were based at RAF Blyton in Lincolnshire. On my grandfathers service record he is shown as being at 71 Base from 29th Dec 1944. I have ascertained that RAF Blyton was transferred to 71 Base on 5th Nov 1944 & remained with 71 Base until 15th Nov 1945. This I believe suggests that he was with 1662 CU/HCU for about 4 months prior to being posted to 550 Squadron.
I am however, having trouble in finding any operational records for 1662 CU/HCU, records such as Operational Record Books (if such exist!) or War Diaries or similar etc. I have searched the National Archives catalogue to no avail. Could someone point me in the right direction to these records please?
Many thanks in advance.
Kind regards
David
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David,
The HCU ORBs are notoriously light on detail, to the point where the only times trainees are listed is when they were killed in accidents.
You may want to check this to see how far it goes: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7160912
I've also found HCU ORBs as part of Station ORBs. RAF Lindholme Station ORB: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7161774
DTD
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Hi DTD,
Many thanks for the links, very much appreciated.
Kind regards
David